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https://www.velcro.com/legal-and-privacy/dontsayvelcro/ https://www.velcro.com/legal-and-privacy/dontsayvelcro/

by crysin 7y ago

VBprogrammer 7y ago
Amusing, but we all know that's just lip service to show that they are trying to defend there trademark. Google had the same thing a few years back.
- JustSomeNobody 7y ago
  Not just lip service, they come right out and say it: Us lawyers have to protect our people. Using the VELCRO® trademark properly allows us to protect the integrity of the VELCRO® Brand and our trademark rights, and protect consumers from purchasing products incorrectly identified as VELCRO® Brand products. It’s, you know, the right thing to do
janders 7y ago
This is wild. It's perfectly logical what they're doing but I'm used to seeing this kinda thing after the trademark has lapsed (Kleenex, Xerox, etc). But to see a company release a pretty funny youtube video begging you to say their name less, well, it's just a weird thing to see.
- djsumdog 7y ago
  I don't think trademarks can lapse in the US and many other countries (copyright can; which is a huge debate in an of itself: see Disney). I actually use "tissue" and "copy", but those kinda make sense. Personally I hate it when people keep saying "I Googled..." because it reminds me of this bullshit search engine monoculture we have right now (I try to use DuckDuckGo more, but I miss the days of Yahoo, Lycos, Hotbot, Dogpile, Excite and how they all give you DIFFERENT results!) Velcro though ... totally didn't even realize it was a brand until like just now .. and I'm still going to use it generically, because it should just be at this point. :-P
  - technothrasher 7y ago
    I don't think trademarks can lapse I think the original poster meant "genericized" instead of "lapsed". But Velcro is clearly already genericized, as you note.
    - logfromblammo 7y ago
      No, "velcro" is genericized. The capitalized word "Velcro" is still a trademark. As such, you can buy "Velcro [BVBA] velcro", or you can call 3M's hook-and-loop fasteners "3M velcro". 3M, naturally, avoids using the term "velcro" in its packaging and marketing, and would never use "Velcro", because even though they could, because the term is genericized, it would still be free advertising for a competitor.
      - technothrasher 7y ago
        The capitalized word "Velcro" is still a trademark. Capitalization has no bearing on word marks (in the US, at least. I can't speak for other countries). "Velcro", "VELCRO", "velcro" are all the same thing as far as the trademark office is concerned. And yes, there are still active trademarks for the word "VELCRO", but it has still been unquestionably genericized.
        logfromblammo 7y ago
        The rules of English grammar supersede those of the trademark office. If it's not a proper noun, and not the first word in a sentence, don't capitalize it. As an example of all-caps trademark, LEGO bricks. Like velcro, LEGO is a portmanteau. Velcro is velour-crochet, and LEGO is leg-godt ("play good"). And like velcro before it, LEGO is now fighting genericization. If they lose the struggle, kids will play with legos instead of LEGO bricks. They might be legos made by Lego then, but LEGO would be the trademark. It might not be relevant to the word mark, but the image mark is stylized in all caps. This is nitpicky, but I am sharing some of my experience from writing software that produces brand reports for trademark lawyers. The USPTO might not be case-sensitive, but some of the lawyers are very case-oversensitive, so our software had to take that into account. I still have trouble using a trademark as a noun or verb.
- drivers99 7y ago
  Ah, thanks for mentioning it's a funny video. With just the link posted, it just looks like a typical "say it our way so we don't lose the trademark" thing like [1]. It makes a big difference in the decision to click on it. [1] https://www.lego.com/en-us/legal/notices-and-policies/fair-play/ https://www.lego.com/en-us/legal/notices-and-policies/fair-p... > If the LEGO trademark is used at all, it should always be used as an adjective, not as a noun. For example, say “MODELS BUILT OF LEGO BRICKS”. Never say “MODELS BUILT OF LEGOs”.
TurkTurkleton 7y ago
I was going to say "found the Velcro employee"-- excuse me, I meant "employee of the company Velcro BVBA"-- but surely a Velcro employee would know that Velcro BVBA makes Velcro-branded hook-and-loop-fastener cable management products.
- crysin 7y ago
  I was just poking fun at Velcro's absurdity. I in no way endorse their view of their branding. I just saw someone say Velcro and I never have had an opportunity to share that lovely page. Seemed tangentially relevant.
  - teachrdan 7y ago
    Examples of alternatives to trademarked names: * "Velcro" -> "hook and loop" * "Kleenex" -> "tissue paper" * "Dumpster" -> "garbage bin" * "Frisbee" -> "flying disc"
    - epicide 7y ago
      I never knew "Dumpster" was one. Actually makes a lot of sense when I think about it. Thanks!
    - zrobotics 7y ago
      Wait, dumpster is trademarked? I've never heard of this before, but according to [0] it is definitely a generic trademark. Although this may be a great example of why VELCRO(R) is fighting a losing battle. At this point, it may be too late to change the average consumer's habits, as VELCRO(R) is in almost the same situation. Perhaps if they had started this campaign when the patent expired and generic alternatives appeared, but it's probably too little, too late at this point. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dumpster https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dumpster
      - Animats 7y ago
        Sure. Famous inventor, George Roby Dempster. The Dempster Dumpmaster was the truck built to go with the Dempster Dumpster, using a hydraulic fork system that picks up the Dumpster and empties it into the truck. Dempster invented that, and sold garbage trucks and compatible containers. Once the patents expired, it's was a de-facto standard. A "dumpster" is thus historically a container that can be emptied by a standard front fork loading garbage truck. Long containers that are towed onto a tilt-bed truck are something else, usually debris boxes. But they now tend to be called "roll-on dumpsters".
JudgeWapner 7y ago
Velcro Velcro Velcro Velcro
crysin 7y ago
I'm assuming my down votes are for the link being off-topic. Just wanted to apologize if I annoyed some people with it. I thought it would be fun to share it since Velcro doesn't come up very often in online discussions.
- mikestew 7y ago
  Innocent though it might have been, we were discussing tying cables together, someone dared to mention the word "Velcro", and out comes Captain Pedantic to remind us that it is a trademarked term. Hey, we were trying to discuss cables, not trademark law. You also don't know that parent wasn't specifically calling out the Velcro brand: "buy the Velcro ties, not the shitty off-brand, Velcro; I used the word for a reason." That's my guess, I don't necessarily hold that view. But it did drag the conversation in a vastly different direction. :-)
- jschwartzi 7y ago
  It's alright. One of the things that separates discussion on HN from other sites is that we like to try to stay on-topic. In the past I've witnessed many articles on Slashdot go from discussing the article with the first two or three comments to somehow having a 100-comment discussion of the merits of Open Source and Linux. This would happen even on discussions of some new science or new widget. Inevitably there would be some derogatory comment about Microsoft in there regardless of the content of the original article. As a consequence I try to avoid mentioning things that will go in a political direction, like Trademark, Copyright, etc. as these terms tend to be very charged for certain people. Once you bring it up people will dogpile the discussion and eventually your article on the Lost Art of Lacing Cable is full of comments about how Trademarks are stupid and Copyright is Copywrong. It's not really about relevance, but rather that the main focus of the comment is something that invites a lot of political discussion with very little substance.
davideous 7y ago
This is genius. If you don't enforce a trademark you can loose it. So this is probably helping protect their trademark. And this also draws attention -- in a potentially viral way -- to their brand and the fact that velcro is distinct from and perhaps better than "hook and loop".
johnnycab 7y ago
This is a case of 'genericisation'. A Very Short Introduction” of a man in 1990 who filed for a trademark on his red, white and blue assortment of “Stealth Condoms”, with the tag-phrase “They’ll never see you coming.” Northrop, the maker of the B-2 “stealth bomber”, sued to stop him, claiming that the man had purloined and even harmed the reputation of their trademark. He went bust. https://www.economist.com/books-and-arts/2017/09/09/why-companies-dont-want-you-to-take-their-brand-names-in-vain https://www.economist.com/books-and-arts/2017/09/09/why-comp...
kbutler 7y ago
He capitalized it, showing it as a proper adjective. That's pretty good casual trademark use in my book. :-) I really like genericized trademarks - fun to look over lists like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_generic_and_genericized_trademarks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_generic_and_genericize... The problem is when the either the brand becomes so dominant ("Kleenex(tm) facial tissues") or the item really lacks an easy, generic noun (Velcro(tm) "hook-and-loop-fasteners". Yeah.) Escalator(tm) ... motorized staircase? Trampoline(tm) ... spring jumping pads? Oh, "Rebound tumbler". Dry Ice(tm) ... solid carbon dioxide? Dumpster (tm - who knew?) ... large dump-able garbage bins? Bet they really don't like Dumpster(tm)-diving or Dumpster(tm)-fires. And patents exacerbate this "problem" behavior, because for for the life of the patent (17+ years) the product class is uniquely associated with the brand, so there's no need for anyone to use a generic term (Velcro(tm), Aspirin(tm) acetylsalicylic acid, Xerox(tm) photo-copies). So the lesson is, when you create your innovative new product, don't just give it a catchy name, also give it a catchy descriptive name, and make sure you promote both.
- adestefan 7y ago
  The capital V was just iOS auto-correct.

https://www.velcro.com/legal-and-privacy/dontsayvelcro/ https://www.velcro.com/legal-and-privacy/dontsayvelcro/

by crysin 7y ago

https://www.velcro.com/legal-and-privacy/dontsayvelcro/ https://www.velcro.com/legal-and-privacy/dontsayvelcro/

Amusing, but we all know that's just lip service to show that they are trying to defend there trademark. Google had the same thing a few years back.

JustSomeNobody 7y ago
Not just lip service, they come right out and say it: Us lawyers have to protect our people. Using the VELCRO® trademark properly allows us to protect the integrity of the VELCRO® Brand and our trademark rights, and protect consumers from purchasing products incorrectly identified as VELCRO® Brand products. It’s, you know, the right thing to do

janders 7y ago

This is wild. It's perfectly logical what they're doing but I'm used to seeing this kinda thing after the trademark has lapsed (Kleenex, Xerox, etc). But to see a company release a pretty funny youtube video begging you to say their name less, well, it's just a weird thing to see.

djsumdog 7y ago
I don't think trademarks can lapse in the US and many other countries (copyright can; which is a huge debate in an of itself: see Disney). I actually use "tissue" and "copy", but those kinda make sense. Personally I hate it when people keep saying "I Googled..." because it reminds me of this bullshit search engine monoculture we have right now (I try to use DuckDuckGo more, but I miss the days of Yahoo, Lycos, Hotbot, Dogpile, Excite and how they all give you DIFFERENT results!) Velcro though ... totally didn't even realize it was a brand until like just now .. and I'm still going to use it generically, because it should just be at this point. :-P
- technothrasher 7y ago
  I don't think trademarks can lapse I think the original poster meant "genericized" instead of "lapsed". But Velcro is clearly already genericized, as you note.
  - logfromblammo 7y ago
    No, "velcro" is genericized. The capitalized word "Velcro" is still a trademark. As such, you can buy "Velcro [BVBA] velcro", or you can call 3M's hook-and-loop fasteners "3M velcro". 3M, naturally, avoids using the term "velcro" in its packaging and marketing, and would never use "Velcro", because even though they could, because the term is genericized, it would still be free advertising for a competitor.
    - technothrasher 7y ago
      The capitalized word "Velcro" is still a trademark. Capitalization has no bearing on word marks (in the US, at least. I can't speak for other countries). "Velcro", "VELCRO", "velcro" are all the same thing as far as the trademark office is concerned. And yes, there are still active trademarks for the word "VELCRO", but it has still been unquestionably genericized.
      - logfromblammo 7y ago
        The rules of English grammar supersede those of the trademark office. If it's not a proper noun, and not the first word in a sentence, don't capitalize it. As an example of all-caps trademark, LEGO bricks. Like velcro, LEGO is a portmanteau. Velcro is velour-crochet, and LEGO is leg-godt ("play good"). And like velcro before it, LEGO is now fighting genericization. If they lose the struggle, kids will play with legos instead of LEGO bricks. They might be legos made by Lego then, but LEGO would be the trademark. It might not be relevant to the word mark, but the image mark is stylized in all caps. This is nitpicky, but I am sharing some of my experience from writing software that produces brand reports for trademark lawyers. The USPTO might not be case-sensitive, but some of the lawyers are very case-oversensitive, so our software had to take that into account. I still have trouble using a trademark as a noun or verb.
drivers99 7y ago
Ah, thanks for mentioning it's a funny video. With just the link posted, it just looks like a typical "say it our way so we don't lose the trademark" thing like [1]. It makes a big difference in the decision to click on it. [1] https://www.lego.com/en-us/legal/notices-and-policies/fair-play/ https://www.lego.com/en-us/legal/notices-and-policies/fair-p... > If the LEGO trademark is used at all, it should always be used as an adjective, not as a noun. For example, say “MODELS BUILT OF LEGO BRICKS”. Never say “MODELS BUILT OF LEGOs”.

TurkTurkleton 7y ago

I was going to say "found the Velcro employee"-- excuse me, I meant "employee of the company Velcro BVBA"-- but surely a Velcro employee would know that Velcro BVBA makes Velcro-branded hook-and-loop-fastener cable management products.

crysin 7y ago
I was just poking fun at Velcro's absurdity. I in no way endorse their view of their branding. I just saw someone say Velcro and I never have had an opportunity to share that lovely page. Seemed tangentially relevant.
- teachrdan 7y ago
  Examples of alternatives to trademarked names: * "Velcro" -> "hook and loop" * "Kleenex" -> "tissue paper" * "Dumpster" -> "garbage bin" * "Frisbee" -> "flying disc"
  - epicide 7y ago
    I never knew "Dumpster" was one. Actually makes a lot of sense when I think about it. Thanks!
  - zrobotics 7y ago
    Wait, dumpster is trademarked? I've never heard of this before, but according to [0] it is definitely a generic trademark. Although this may be a great example of why VELCRO(R) is fighting a losing battle. At this point, it may be too late to change the average consumer's habits, as VELCRO(R) is in almost the same situation. Perhaps if they had started this campaign when the patent expired and generic alternatives appeared, but it's probably too little, too late at this point. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dumpster https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dumpster
    - Animats 7y ago
      Sure. Famous inventor, George Roby Dempster. The Dempster Dumpmaster was the truck built to go with the Dempster Dumpster, using a hydraulic fork system that picks up the Dumpster and empties it into the truck. Dempster invented that, and sold garbage trucks and compatible containers. Once the patents expired, it's was a de-facto standard. A "dumpster" is thus historically a container that can be emptied by a standard front fork loading garbage truck. Long containers that are towed onto a tilt-bed truck are something else, usually debris boxes. But they now tend to be called "roll-on dumpsters".

JudgeWapner 7y ago

Velcro Velcro Velcro Velcro

crysin 7y ago

I'm assuming my down votes are for the link being off-topic. Just wanted to apologize if I annoyed some people with it. I thought it would be fun to share it since Velcro doesn't come up very often in online discussions.

mikestew 7y ago
Innocent though it might have been, we were discussing tying cables together, someone dared to mention the word "Velcro", and out comes Captain Pedantic to remind us that it is a trademarked term. Hey, we were trying to discuss cables, not trademark law. You also don't know that parent wasn't specifically calling out the Velcro brand: "buy the Velcro ties, not the shitty off-brand, Velcro; I used the word for a reason." That's my guess, I don't necessarily hold that view. But it did drag the conversation in a vastly different direction. :-)
jschwartzi 7y ago
It's alright. One of the things that separates discussion on HN from other sites is that we like to try to stay on-topic. In the past I've witnessed many articles on Slashdot go from discussing the article with the first two or three comments to somehow having a 100-comment discussion of the merits of Open Source and Linux. This would happen even on discussions of some new science or new widget. Inevitably there would be some derogatory comment about Microsoft in there regardless of the content of the original article. As a consequence I try to avoid mentioning things that will go in a political direction, like Trademark, Copyright, etc. as these terms tend to be very charged for certain people. Once you bring it up people will dogpile the discussion and eventually your article on the Lost Art of Lacing Cable is full of comments about how Trademarks are stupid and Copyright is Copywrong. It's not really about relevance, but rather that the main focus of the comment is something that invites a lot of political discussion with very little substance.

davideous 7y ago

This is genius. If you don't enforce a trademark you can loose it. So this is probably helping protect their trademark. And this also draws attention -- in a potentially viral way -- to their brand and the fact that velcro is distinct from and perhaps better than "hook and loop".

johnnycab 7y ago

This is a case of 'genericisation'. A Very Short Introduction” of a man in 1990 who filed for a trademark on his red, white and blue assortment of “Stealth Condoms”, with the tag-phrase “They’ll never see you coming.” Northrop, the maker of the B-2 “stealth bomber”, sued to stop him, claiming that the man had purloined and even harmed the reputation of their trademark. He went bust. https://www.economist.com/books-and-arts/2017/09/09/why-companies-dont-want-you-to-take-their-brand-names-in-vain https://www.economist.com/books-and-arts/2017/09/09/why-comp...

kbutler 7y ago

He capitalized it, showing it as a proper adjective. That's pretty good casual trademark use in my book. :-) I really like genericized trademarks - fun to look over lists like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_generic_and_genericized_trademarks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_generic_and_genericize... The problem is when the either the brand becomes so dominant ("Kleenex(tm) facial tissues") or the item really lacks an easy, generic noun (Velcro(tm) "hook-and-loop-fasteners". Yeah.) Escalator(tm) ... motorized staircase? Trampoline(tm) ... spring jumping pads? Oh, "Rebound tumbler". Dry Ice(tm) ... solid carbon dioxide? Dumpster (tm - who knew?) ... large dump-able garbage bins? Bet they really don't like Dumpster(tm)-diving or Dumpster(tm)-fires. And patents exacerbate this "problem" behavior, because for for the life of the patent (17+ years) the product class is uniquely associated with the brand, so there's no need for anyone to use a generic term (Velcro(tm), Aspirin(tm) acetylsalicylic acid, Xerox(tm) photo-copies). So the lesson is, when you create your innovative new product, don't just give it a catchy name, also give it a catchy descriptive name, and make sure you promote both.

adestefan 7y ago
The capital V was just iOS auto-correct.