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I'm starting to think more and more that people promoting plant based burgers have either never tasted beef or never tasted a plant based burger. If the main c

I'm starting to think more and more that people promoting plant based burgers have either never tasted beef or never tasted a plant based burger. If the main concern is environment I get it and go for it. But if you are claiming that plant based burgers are healthier or tastier you are borderline delusional. Last time I cooked a Beyond Meat burger I noticed it was 30% canola oil. 30% CANOLA OIL, might as well just inject cholesterol and fast forward a heart attack. I still get nightmares when I think of how bad the flavor was, think of the most processed food you possibly can like jolly ranchers and then imagine a salty fatty version of it. I legit don't understand how this trend keeps going even though vegetarian burgers made with vegetables are delicious and way healthier and there are alternative cuisines like Indian or Mediterranean that gives you loads of options that aren't basically CANOLA OIL.

windexh8er 7y ago
Interesting and biased perspective. As others have pointed out, you didn't get most of the facts right. Did you just decide to make things up as you started typing? The assertion that "people promoting plant based burgers have either never tasted beef or never tasted a plant based burger" doesn't apply to everyone. For reference: I have over 20 years under my belt of cooking all types of meat. As of 3 years ago my sous vide was a commonly used component in cooking. I owned multiple types of grills depending on what I was cooking (pellet and ceramic - still own the latter). I invested thousands of dollars in the art of cooking meat. I studied cooking techniques and styles, took classes, and I would commit copious amounts of time cooking different meats. Overnight pork shoulder cooks to get juicy, buttery pulled pork. 5+ hours (including setup) for perfect ribs. A handful of filets vacuumed in various herbs and spices and cooked in the sous vide for half a day to be finished with a 500F sear on the back end for a perfect finish. I haven't eaten any white or red meat for over two years now and don't miss any of it. Is there a gap that hasn't been filled fully, as of yet? Sure. But like I said - I don't miss it. When I have a taste for "meat" I turn to Impossible and Beyond Meat now. The article (which it appears you didn't actually read) does a good job of summing up the difference between the two. Although I will argue that the Beyond Meat products aren't as bad as the author states. And yes, these products are "processed" - but they also don't make up the majority of what I consume week over week either. Comparatively meats are more processed than most think and from slaughter to table that process involves a whole lot more risk with regard to a tainted product. And let's not forget what people buy frozen in the store that somehow passes as "ground beef". Can you still get legitimate options on that side of the red meat aisle? Sure, but as the article states that's not butcher ground blends of the stuff you want in your ground beef. It's all the remnants you don't in a slurry of chemicals to kill off the things you don't want to be ingesting. Your last point misses the point. While I will agree that there are some fantastic veggie burgers out there Beyond and Impossible aren't going after that market. That's not their target. But, maybe, in the transition to alt meats we gain some new perspective on trying those, and maybe that ends up being a stepping stone to further, better choices for both health and environmental reasons.
- dang 7y ago
  Please don't cross into personal attack on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. Your comment would be fine without that first bit.
nwah1 7y ago
Didn't realize they had a new formula. I liked the old formula.
flyinglizard 7y ago
In my case, it was the amount of preservatives in one of the more well known plant based meat burgers. Far from healthy.
- lkbm 7y ago
  What's unhealthy about preservatives?
baxtr 7y ago
I have become a 80% vegetarian by now and I feel great doing it. That said, I 100% agree with you. You can definitively be a vegetarian and die of heart disease eating that kind of replica food.
- southerndrift 7y ago
  What do you mean by "80% vegetarian"? You eat 20% meat? Isn't that close to the recommended proportion of meat in a diet, which would make you a normal person but not a vegetarian?
  - baxtr 7y ago
    I try to avoid meat completely, however I am not 100% successful, so I “cheat” and end up eating 1 piece of meat a week.
codesushi42 7y ago
I had a highschool teacher who was vegetarian and would extol its health benefits. She was obese. Not being meat doesn't mean healthy by default. This misconception is becoming as bad as preferring "0 fat, replaced with loads of sugar".
- WheelsAtLarge 7y ago
  Keep in mind that a vegetarian diet can mean a diet high in grains. Grains will definitely fatten you up if you're not careful on the amount you eat.
  - kian 7y ago
    I believe this was the other commenter's point - regardless of your diet, you always have to be careful with what you eat, and in what proportions. Nothing about vegetarian diets is automatically healthier than meat-based ones.
  - windexh8er 7y ago
    There are so many people that use the "look at this obese vegetarian!" strawman. Does anyone legitimately think a diet of Oreos and Gatorade is healthy? No. Is it vegetarian? Yes. Processed foods are the majority of the issue. Not "grains". Carbohydrates are not the devil here, yet people dance around it in so many ways. Try this... Most processed foods have a high carb to fiber ratio. That's bad. It's also a leading indicator that those products (not whole foods) have a bunch of added sugar and/of fat. The ratio should be lower than 10:1 (carb to fiber) [0]. Many state 5:1 is what you should shoot for. But so many overlook how carbs are good. Fruits and vegetables are loaded with carbs and fiber. Most people don't think 5 grams of broccoli carbs are bad for you, but it's obvious when you compare those 5 grams from broccoli to 5 grams of carbs from Oreos. For reference: Broccoli: 91g (1 cup) contains 6g of carb and 2.4g of fiber. No fat and 1.5g of natural sugars. Oreos: 34g of cookies (3) has 25g of carbs and 0.5g of fiber. One wouldn't be surprised to hear those cookies contain 7g of fat and 14g of added sugar. So, no... Being a processed food "vegetarian" isn't healthy and it's a crappy argument vs a "vegetarian" eating whole foods under a plant heavy/focused diet. Finally, most don't know that each gram of fiber cancels out each checked gram of carbs with regard to sugars. High fiber diets are crucial to sugar regulation. And this is crucial to diabetics, but not many are taught. [1] [0] https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/the-trick-to-recognizing-a-good-whole-grain-use-carb-to-fiber-ratio-of-10-to-1-201301145794 https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/the-trick-to-recognizing... [1] https://dtc.ucsf.edu/living-with-diabetes/diet-and-nutrition/understanding-carbohydrates/counting-carbohydrates/learning-to-read-labels/understanding-fiber/ https://dtc.ucsf.edu/living-with-diabetes/diet-and-nutrition...
exhilaration 7y ago
Ok buddy, we get it, you don't like canola oil. But Americans do, it's the #2 consumed oil in the country, with 2.7 million metric tons consumed in 2018. Those are the people that eat at White Castle and Dunkin Donuts, that's the market everyone's going after.
snarf21 7y ago
I'm all for them trying to move it forward. Like you said, the "good taste" is coming from plant oils, Impossible uses coconut oil. Howerver, will we soon see a 'tropical oil plantations are accelerating global warming' backlash? Of all the environment issues for beef, water usage scares me the most. The Ogallala Aquifer is in trouble and there will be a reckoning.
dashundchen 7y ago
Agree that it's not as healthy as eating less processed plant based foods, however I don't think anyone is going to Burger King or White Castle expecting that. But are these plant burgers actually claiming or marketing themselves as healthy? The only places I have seen them served are in restaurants and bars alongside burgers and unhealthy bar food - which I think you might be surprised is a big chunk of many people's diets. I have many coworkers who eat next to no vegetables. I am hoping they can provide a spring board into more traditional plant based foods for people, including the Med and Indian cuisines you mention.
- geddy 7y ago
  Consumption of red meat has been consistently linked to cancer, specifically of the gastrointestinal tract. The ingredients in Beyond Burgers and Impossible Burgers have not. In the short term, I consider them healthier because of that, but I certainly don't think that processed foods are healthy in the long term, regardless of whether or not they contain animal products. Source: https://health.clevelandclinic.org/link-red-meat-cancer-need-know/ https://health.clevelandclinic.org/link-red-meat-cancer-need...
  - buckthundaz 7y ago
    Are you sure you understand your source? Is a real burger more processed than a Beyond Burger, what I call a 'Pea-Protein Patty'? Suggested reading: https://ancestral-nutrition.com/beyond-meat-is-beyond-unhealthy/ https://ancestral-nutrition.com/beyond-meat-is-beyond-unheal...
- ziddoap 7y ago
  >But are these plant burgers actually claiming or marketing themselves as healthy? Yes. A snippet from the top paragraph of Beyond Meat's Product Page: "Imagine your favorite meaty dishes[...]while being better for you [...]"[1] [1]https://www.beyondmeat.com/products/ https://www.beyondmeat.com/products/ Edit: Beyond Meat is not claiming they are healthy, just that they are healthier. Edit 2: Looking farther, they also state that they are "IMPROVING HUMAN HEALTH" on their about page. This would likely still fall under that they claim they are "healthier" rather than healthy, though.
davidhopper 7y ago
Agreed on vegetarian products not automatically being healthy (or tasty for that matter). Likely not the point of your post, but cholesterol is only found in animal products, so I don’t think you’d be injecting that with these burgers, though they still sound unhealthy.
pranjalv123 7y ago
Canola oil (and all plant products) have no cholesterol; red meat is high in cholesterol.
- drdrey 7y ago
  Dietary cholesterol and blood cholesterol are not the same thing
- e40 7y ago
  While true, cholesterol is slowly being exonerated as a villain. My primary care physician no longer orders cholesterol tests, for example. Sugar, not fat, is the real problem. And those researches that took bribes in the 60's to turn us all against fat. https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/13/well/eat/how-the-sugar-industry-shifted-blame-to-fat.html https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/13/well/eat/how-the-sugar-in...
  - manjana 7y ago
    The real problem is LDL cholesterol when it is combined with excess sugar. HDL cholesterol is harmless afaik. Cholesterol is not bad - your body produces way more than you ever ingest on a single day.
    - buckthundaz 7y ago
      The root problem is hyperinsulinemia. [1] The cholesterol narrative is far, far off from being correct. [1] - https://www.dietdoctor.com/triglycerides-and-heart-disease https://www.dietdoctor.com/triglycerides-and-heart-disease
artimaeis 7y ago
> Last time I cooked a Beyond Meat burger I noticed it was 30% canola oil. 30% CANOLA OIL, might as well just inject cholesterol and fast forward a heart attack. Yes, the Beyond Meat burger does have a substantial amount of canola oil. But what's this about cholesterol and heart attack risk? Canola oil is one of the healthier oils - it's low in saturated fats and high in monounsaturated fats which are shown to actually help fight heart disease. The amount of cholesterol in a Beyond Meat or Impossible Burger is 0. Let's compare that to even a lean burger (85/15): whose 4oz patty contains 102mg of cholesterol and a blend of saturated fats, trans fats, monounsaturated fats, and polyunsaturated fats. It's terribly unhealthy, and the risks associated with the consumption of red meat are well known. The Mediterranean diet you promote also includes high amounts of monounsaturated fats (Olive oil). If I've overlooked some other deep seated risk associated to canola oil, let me know.
- 8456523 7y ago
  Canola oil looks good on paper, but there is something very unhealthful about it if my experience is any indication. (I have to eat well or my chronic illness gets worse almost right away.) I avoid most seed oils, e.g., safflower, sunflower (regardless of how the seed oil is grown or refined) but canola is the single oil I take the most care to avoid. I use olive oil almost exclusively. I don't have a decent theory about why it is particularly bad for me. Sorry I can't be more informative.
- chrisco255 7y ago
  You made a couple of invalid claims here: 1) Canola oil is one of the healthier oils. 2) Monounsaturated fats help fight heart disease. 3) Naturally occurring trans fat is the same as industrial trans fat 4) Red meat has health risks EDIT, included sources, with comments: [1] Canola oil may have dramatic negative effect on weight gain and brain health: "Effect of canola oil consumption on memory, synapse and neuropathology in the triple transgenic mouse model of Alzheimer’s disease" https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-17373-3?error=database_circuit_open&error_description=Database%20is%20temporarily%20unavailable https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-17373-3?error=dat... [2] No clear benefits of MUFA-rich diets: "Monounsaturated Fatty Acids and Risk of Cardiovascular Disease: Synopsis of the Evidence Available from Systematic Reviews and Meta-Analyses" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3546618/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3546618/ [3] High trans fat intake associated with lower sudden cardiac death: "Natural trans fat, dairy fat, partially hydrogenated oils, and cardiometabolic health: the Ludwigshafen Risk and Cardiovascular Health Study" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4816962/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4816962/ [4] Claims on red meat risks that are limited to epidemiological studies (surveys) that are unreliable, do not factor for confounding variables, and do not conclusively prove anything. Keto diet, for example, has shown to lower cardiovascular risk factors: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5452247/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5452247/
travelton 7y ago
How did you land at 30% canola oil? There's three fats in Beyond Meat burgers, Expeller-Pressed Canola Oil, Refined Coconut Oil, and Cocoa Butter. The total fat content is 18g per serving. Each serving is 113g total. That's 15% total fat content per serving. We don't know the canola, coconut, or cocoa butter ratio, but we can at least assume total canola oil is <15%. There's also 0mg of cholesterol. Nutrition Facts: https://www.beyondmeat.com/products/the-beyond-burger/ https://www.beyondmeat.com/products/the-beyond-burger/ Edit: I should add I'm not saying this is the best food choice. 1 tablespoon of oil is about 13g. So you're basically eating a little over 1 tablespoon of oil.
- YeGoblynQueenne 7y ago
  >> There's three fats in Beyond Meat burgers, Expeller-Pressed Canola Oil, Refined Coconut Oil, and Cocoa Butter If I understand correctly, coconut oil is the worse kind of fat you can consume. Is that incorrect?
  - sehugg 7y ago
    Not the worst, but probably not the best either: https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/coconut-oil https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/coconut-oil
mythrwy 7y ago
The plant based burgers simply aren't burgers or even close and without massive genetic engineering I doubt they ever will be. My guess is that lab grown meats (or some complete protein yeast type product much closer to meat than the clumsy impostors we see now) does replace animal grown meat shortly enough. So I agree with author, only it won't be Beyond Burger type things. It's really about efficiency more than anything else. The efficient way isn't chasing cows around and fencing them in and feeding them grain and cutting them up and eating half of them. That really makes only a little more sense than chasing deer through forests with pointed sticks. It scales poorly and is expensive. But I do agree, these plant substitutes aren't it. The protein is poorer quality and the flavor is much poorer quality. Getting people to care about abstract environment or animal rights is a losing battle. But offering the same flavor, same nutrition at a lower cost doesn't need selling.
munificent 7y ago
> Last time I cooked a Beyond Meat burger I noticed it was 30% canola oil. 30% CANOLA OIL Burgers are typically made from 80/20 ground beef. That's 80% meat, 20% fat.
- duskwuff 7y ago
  > That's 80% meat, 20% fat. And that ratio is before cooking. A nontrivial amount of the fat cooks out on the grill.
  - munificent 7y ago
    Equally true for the plant-based patty, though, I assume.
- nightski 7y ago
  Yea but it's typically unsaturated & saturated fat which is being less demonized these days. I'm convinced it's actually healthy for you but don't take my word for it. Refined Canola Oil & Soybean Oil however have artificial trans fatty acids and are high in omega-6 which is inflammatory.
  - fulafel 7y ago
    Animal fat contains more trans fats than canola oil (https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/2015/04/13/ask-the-expert-concerns-about-canola-oil/ https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/2015/04/13/ask-...). Pro/anti inflammatory of o6 effect is determined by the o6/o3 ratio which is ok in canola oil. Though even better in some other vegetable oils like olive. But olive oil would have too strong a taste for this application.
    - hollerith 7y ago
      The trans fats in animal products are mostly conjugated linoleic acids, which are actually good for you as far as we have been able to tell: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conjugated_linoleic_acid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conjugated_linoleic_acid In other words, the trans fats that result from heating a vegetable oil are almost certain bad for you -- probably really bad -- whereas the trans fats in meat we don't know a lot about, but what we do know suggests that they are good for you. (Conjugated linoleic acids are sold as nutritional supplements.)
YeGoblynQueenne 7y ago
>> I legit don't understand how this trend keeps going even though vegetarian burgers made with vegetables are delicious and way healthier and there are alternative cuisines like Indian or Mediterranean that gives you loads of options that aren't basically CANOLA OIL. Upvote for that last bit. I haven't tried a synthetic burger yet so I don't know about your comments on taste etc, but it has to be said that there is a very, very long way you can go to feed yourself on plants before you have to eat a fake burger.
jjtheblunt 7y ago
It keeps going because the Impossible Burgers actually do taste good, and seem not insane like the canola oil thing you mentioned.
thedaemon 7y ago
The flavor is better than most fast food beef patties to me and I have higher standards than the average person. To each his own my friend. Taste is subjective after all. Some people claim that American Cheese tastes good and is the best cheese. It is not really cheese and it doesn't taste good to me.
- granshaw 7y ago
  Read this as "American Chinese tastes good and is the best Chinese" - still works!

windexh8er 7y ago

Interesting and biased perspective. As others have pointed out, you didn't get most of the facts right. Did you just decide to make things up as you started typing? The assertion that "people promoting plant based burgers have either never tasted beef or never tasted a plant based burger" doesn't apply to everyone. For reference: I have over 20 years under my belt of cooking all types of meat. As of 3 years ago my sous vide was a commonly used component in cooking. I owned multiple types of grills depending on what I was cooking (pellet and ceramic - still own the latter). I invested thousands of dollars in the art of cooking meat. I studied cooking techniques and styles, took classes, and I would commit copious amounts of time cooking different meats. Overnight pork shoulder cooks to get juicy, buttery pulled pork. 5+ hours (including setup) for perfect ribs. A handful of filets vacuumed in various herbs and spices and cooked in the sous vide for half a day to be finished with a 500F sear on the back end for a perfect finish. I haven't eaten any white or red meat for over two years now and don't miss any of it. Is there a gap that hasn't been filled fully, as of yet? Sure. But like I said - I don't miss it. When I have a taste for "meat" I turn to Impossible and Beyond Meat now. The article (which it appears you didn't actually read) does a good job of summing up the difference between the two. Although I will argue that the Beyond Meat products aren't as bad as the author states. And yes, these products are "processed" - but they also don't make up the majority of what I consume week over week either. Comparatively meats are more processed than most think and from slaughter to table that process involves a whole lot more risk with regard to a tainted product. And let's not forget what people buy frozen in the store that somehow passes as "ground beef". Can you still get legitimate options on that side of the red meat aisle? Sure, but as the article states that's not butcher ground blends of the stuff you want in your ground beef. It's all the remnants you don't in a slurry of chemicals to kill off the things you don't want to be ingesting. Your last point misses the point. While I will agree that there are some fantastic veggie burgers out there Beyond and Impossible aren't going after that market. That's not their target. But, maybe, in the transition to alt meats we gain some new perspective on trying those, and maybe that ends up being a stepping stone to further, better choices for both health and environmental reasons.

dang 7y ago
Please don't cross into personal attack on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. Your comment would be fine without that first bit.

nwah1 7y ago

Didn't realize they had a new formula. I liked the old formula.

flyinglizard 7y ago

In my case, it was the amount of preservatives in one of the more well known plant based meat burgers. Far from healthy.

lkbm 7y ago
What's unhealthy about preservatives?

baxtr 7y ago

I have become a 80% vegetarian by now and I feel great doing it. That said, I 100% agree with you. You can definitively be a vegetarian and die of heart disease eating that kind of replica food.

southerndrift 7y ago
What do you mean by "80% vegetarian"? You eat 20% meat? Isn't that close to the recommended proportion of meat in a diet, which would make you a normal person but not a vegetarian?
- baxtr 7y ago
  I try to avoid meat completely, however I am not 100% successful, so I “cheat” and end up eating 1 piece of meat a week.

codesushi42 7y ago

I had a highschool teacher who was vegetarian and would extol its health benefits. She was obese. Not being meat doesn't mean healthy by default. This misconception is becoming as bad as preferring "0 fat, replaced with loads of sugar".

WheelsAtLarge 7y ago
Keep in mind that a vegetarian diet can mean a diet high in grains. Grains will definitely fatten you up if you're not careful on the amount you eat.
- kian 7y ago
  I believe this was the other commenter's point - regardless of your diet, you always have to be careful with what you eat, and in what proportions. Nothing about vegetarian diets is automatically healthier than meat-based ones.
- windexh8er 7y ago
  There are so many people that use the "look at this obese vegetarian!" strawman. Does anyone legitimately think a diet of Oreos and Gatorade is healthy? No. Is it vegetarian? Yes. Processed foods are the majority of the issue. Not "grains". Carbohydrates are not the devil here, yet people dance around it in so many ways. Try this... Most processed foods have a high carb to fiber ratio. That's bad. It's also a leading indicator that those products (not whole foods) have a bunch of added sugar and/of fat. The ratio should be lower than 10:1 (carb to fiber) [0]. Many state 5:1 is what you should shoot for. But so many overlook how carbs are good. Fruits and vegetables are loaded with carbs and fiber. Most people don't think 5 grams of broccoli carbs are bad for you, but it's obvious when you compare those 5 grams from broccoli to 5 grams of carbs from Oreos. For reference: Broccoli: 91g (1 cup) contains 6g of carb and 2.4g of fiber. No fat and 1.5g of natural sugars. Oreos: 34g of cookies (3) has 25g of carbs and 0.5g of fiber. One wouldn't be surprised to hear those cookies contain 7g of fat and 14g of added sugar. So, no... Being a processed food "vegetarian" isn't healthy and it's a crappy argument vs a "vegetarian" eating whole foods under a plant heavy/focused diet. Finally, most don't know that each gram of fiber cancels out each checked gram of carbs with regard to sugars. High fiber diets are crucial to sugar regulation. And this is crucial to diabetics, but not many are taught. [1] [0] https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/the-trick-to-recognizing-a-good-whole-grain-use-carb-to-fiber-ratio-of-10-to-1-201301145794 https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/the-trick-to-recognizing... [1] https://dtc.ucsf.edu/living-with-diabetes/diet-and-nutrition/understanding-carbohydrates/counting-carbohydrates/learning-to-read-labels/understanding-fiber/ https://dtc.ucsf.edu/living-with-diabetes/diet-and-nutrition...

exhilaration 7y ago

Ok buddy, we get it, you don't like canola oil. But Americans do, it's the #2 consumed oil in the country, with 2.7 million metric tons consumed in 2018. Those are the people that eat at White Castle and Dunkin Donuts, that's the market everyone's going after.

snarf21 7y ago

I'm all for them trying to move it forward. Like you said, the "good taste" is coming from plant oils, Impossible uses coconut oil. Howerver, will we soon see a 'tropical oil plantations are accelerating global warming' backlash? Of all the environment issues for beef, water usage scares me the most. The Ogallala Aquifer is in trouble and there will be a reckoning.

dashundchen 7y ago

Agree that it's not as healthy as eating less processed plant based foods, however I don't think anyone is going to Burger King or White Castle expecting that. But are these plant burgers actually claiming or marketing themselves as healthy? The only places I have seen them served are in restaurants and bars alongside burgers and unhealthy bar food - which I think you might be surprised is a big chunk of many people's diets. I have many coworkers who eat next to no vegetables. I am hoping they can provide a spring board into more traditional plant based foods for people, including the Med and Indian cuisines you mention.

geddy 7y ago
Consumption of red meat has been consistently linked to cancer, specifically of the gastrointestinal tract. The ingredients in Beyond Burgers and Impossible Burgers have not. In the short term, I consider them healthier because of that, but I certainly don't think that processed foods are healthy in the long term, regardless of whether or not they contain animal products. Source: https://health.clevelandclinic.org/link-red-meat-cancer-need-know/ https://health.clevelandclinic.org/link-red-meat-cancer-need...
- buckthundaz 7y ago
  Are you sure you understand your source? Is a real burger more processed than a Beyond Burger, what I call a 'Pea-Protein Patty'? Suggested reading: https://ancestral-nutrition.com/beyond-meat-is-beyond-unhealthy/ https://ancestral-nutrition.com/beyond-meat-is-beyond-unheal...
ziddoap 7y ago
>But are these plant burgers actually claiming or marketing themselves as healthy? Yes. A snippet from the top paragraph of Beyond Meat's Product Page: "Imagine your favorite meaty dishes[...]while being better for you [...]"[1] [1]https://www.beyondmeat.com/products/ https://www.beyondmeat.com/products/ Edit: Beyond Meat is not claiming they are healthy, just that they are healthier. Edit 2: Looking farther, they also state that they are "IMPROVING HUMAN HEALTH" on their about page. This would likely still fall under that they claim they are "healthier" rather than healthy, though.

davidhopper 7y ago

Agreed on vegetarian products not automatically being healthy (or tasty for that matter). Likely not the point of your post, but cholesterol is only found in animal products, so I don’t think you’d be injecting that with these burgers, though they still sound unhealthy.

pranjalv123 7y ago

Canola oil (and all plant products) have no cholesterol; red meat is high in cholesterol.

drdrey 7y ago
Dietary cholesterol and blood cholesterol are not the same thing
e40 7y ago
While true, cholesterol is slowly being exonerated as a villain. My primary care physician no longer orders cholesterol tests, for example. Sugar, not fat, is the real problem. And those researches that took bribes in the 60's to turn us all against fat. https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/13/well/eat/how-the-sugar-industry-shifted-blame-to-fat.html https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/13/well/eat/how-the-sugar-in...
- manjana 7y ago
  The real problem is LDL cholesterol when it is combined with excess sugar. HDL cholesterol is harmless afaik. Cholesterol is not bad - your body produces way more than you ever ingest on a single day.
  - buckthundaz 7y ago
    The root problem is hyperinsulinemia. [1] The cholesterol narrative is far, far off from being correct. [1] - https://www.dietdoctor.com/triglycerides-and-heart-disease https://www.dietdoctor.com/triglycerides-and-heart-disease

artimaeis 7y ago

> Last time I cooked a Beyond Meat burger I noticed it was 30% canola oil. 30% CANOLA OIL, might as well just inject cholesterol and fast forward a heart attack. Yes, the Beyond Meat burger does have a substantial amount of canola oil. But what's this about cholesterol and heart attack risk? Canola oil is one of the healthier oils - it's low in saturated fats and high in monounsaturated fats which are shown to actually help fight heart disease. The amount of cholesterol in a Beyond Meat or Impossible Burger is 0. Let's compare that to even a lean burger (85/15): whose 4oz patty contains 102mg of cholesterol and a blend of saturated fats, trans fats, monounsaturated fats, and polyunsaturated fats. It's terribly unhealthy, and the risks associated with the consumption of red meat are well known. The Mediterranean diet you promote also includes high amounts of monounsaturated fats (Olive oil). If I've overlooked some other deep seated risk associated to canola oil, let me know.

8456523 7y ago
Canola oil looks good on paper, but there is something very unhealthful about it if my experience is any indication. (I have to eat well or my chronic illness gets worse almost right away.) I avoid most seed oils, e.g., safflower, sunflower (regardless of how the seed oil is grown or refined) but canola is the single oil I take the most care to avoid. I use olive oil almost exclusively. I don't have a decent theory about why it is particularly bad for me. Sorry I can't be more informative.
chrisco255 7y ago
You made a couple of invalid claims here: 1) Canola oil is one of the healthier oils. 2) Monounsaturated fats help fight heart disease. 3) Naturally occurring trans fat is the same as industrial trans fat 4) Red meat has health risks EDIT, included sources, with comments: [1] Canola oil may have dramatic negative effect on weight gain and brain health: "Effect of canola oil consumption on memory, synapse and neuropathology in the triple transgenic mouse model of Alzheimer’s disease" https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-17373-3?error=database_circuit_open&error_description=Database%20is%20temporarily%20unavailable https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-17373-3?error=dat... [2] No clear benefits of MUFA-rich diets: "Monounsaturated Fatty Acids and Risk of Cardiovascular Disease: Synopsis of the Evidence Available from Systematic Reviews and Meta-Analyses" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3546618/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3546618/ [3] High trans fat intake associated with lower sudden cardiac death: "Natural trans fat, dairy fat, partially hydrogenated oils, and cardiometabolic health: the Ludwigshafen Risk and Cardiovascular Health Study" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4816962/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4816962/ [4] Claims on red meat risks that are limited to epidemiological studies (surveys) that are unreliable, do not factor for confounding variables, and do not conclusively prove anything. Keto diet, for example, has shown to lower cardiovascular risk factors: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5452247/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5452247/

travelton 7y ago

How did you land at 30% canola oil? There's three fats in Beyond Meat burgers, Expeller-Pressed Canola Oil, Refined Coconut Oil, and Cocoa Butter. The total fat content is 18g per serving. Each serving is 113g total. That's 15% total fat content per serving. We don't know the canola, coconut, or cocoa butter ratio, but we can at least assume total canola oil is <15%. There's also 0mg of cholesterol. Nutrition Facts: https://www.beyondmeat.com/products/the-beyond-burger/ https://www.beyondmeat.com/products/the-beyond-burger/ Edit: I should add I'm not saying this is the best food choice. 1 tablespoon of oil is about 13g. So you're basically eating a little over 1 tablespoon of oil.

YeGoblynQueenne 7y ago
>> There's three fats in Beyond Meat burgers, Expeller-Pressed Canola Oil, Refined Coconut Oil, and Cocoa Butter If I understand correctly, coconut oil is the worse kind of fat you can consume. Is that incorrect?
- sehugg 7y ago
  Not the worst, but probably not the best either: https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/coconut-oil https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/coconut-oil

mythrwy 7y ago

The plant based burgers simply aren't burgers or even close and without massive genetic engineering I doubt they ever will be. My guess is that lab grown meats (or some complete protein yeast type product much closer to meat than the clumsy impostors we see now) does replace animal grown meat shortly enough. So I agree with author, only it won't be Beyond Burger type things. It's really about efficiency more than anything else. The efficient way isn't chasing cows around and fencing them in and feeding them grain and cutting them up and eating half of them. That really makes only a little more sense than chasing deer through forests with pointed sticks. It scales poorly and is expensive. But I do agree, these plant substitutes aren't it. The protein is poorer quality and the flavor is much poorer quality. Getting people to care about abstract environment or animal rights is a losing battle. But offering the same flavor, same nutrition at a lower cost doesn't need selling.

munificent 7y ago

> Last time I cooked a Beyond Meat burger I noticed it was 30% canola oil. 30% CANOLA OIL Burgers are typically made from 80/20 ground beef. That's 80% meat, 20% fat.

duskwuff 7y ago
> That's 80% meat, 20% fat. And that ratio is before cooking. A nontrivial amount of the fat cooks out on the grill.
- munificent 7y ago
  Equally true for the plant-based patty, though, I assume.
nightski 7y ago
Yea but it's typically unsaturated & saturated fat which is being less demonized these days. I'm convinced it's actually healthy for you but don't take my word for it. Refined Canola Oil & Soybean Oil however have artificial trans fatty acids and are high in omega-6 which is inflammatory.
- fulafel 7y ago
  Animal fat contains more trans fats than canola oil (https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/2015/04/13/ask-the-expert-concerns-about-canola-oil/ https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/2015/04/13/ask-...). Pro/anti inflammatory of o6 effect is determined by the o6/o3 ratio which is ok in canola oil. Though even better in some other vegetable oils like olive. But olive oil would have too strong a taste for this application.
  - hollerith 7y ago
    The trans fats in animal products are mostly conjugated linoleic acids, which are actually good for you as far as we have been able to tell: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conjugated_linoleic_acid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conjugated_linoleic_acid In other words, the trans fats that result from heating a vegetable oil are almost certain bad for you -- probably really bad -- whereas the trans fats in meat we don't know a lot about, but what we do know suggests that they are good for you. (Conjugated linoleic acids are sold as nutritional supplements.)

YeGoblynQueenne 7y ago

>> I legit don't understand how this trend keeps going even though vegetarian burgers made with vegetables are delicious and way healthier and there are alternative cuisines like Indian or Mediterranean that gives you loads of options that aren't basically CANOLA OIL. Upvote for that last bit. I haven't tried a synthetic burger yet so I don't know about your comments on taste etc, but it has to be said that there is a very, very long way you can go to feed yourself on plants before you have to eat a fake burger.

jjtheblunt 7y ago

It keeps going because the Impossible Burgers actually do taste good, and seem not insane like the canola oil thing you mentioned.

thedaemon 7y ago

The flavor is better than most fast food beef patties to me and I have higher standards than the average person. To each his own my friend. Taste is subjective after all. Some people claim that American Cheese tastes good and is the best cheese. It is not really cheese and it doesn't taste good to me.

granshaw 7y ago
Read this as "American Chinese tastes good and is the best Chinese" - still works!