4 ms·

I think you are confusing the F-22 with the F-35 (JSF). The F-22 actually works as far as I know.

dreamcompiler 7y ago
Yes, the F-22 is the one that works. It works well enough the US is not selling them to its allies, but they are selling the F-35 (to anybody stupid enough to buy them).
- adventured 7y ago
  > to anybody stupid enough to buy them You mean many of the elite militaries on the planet? Israel for example is not known for buying non-working trash as a primary to defend its skies with. Over time the majority of the best militaries will all fly the F35. Turkey must be a joke according to your premise, that's why they're so eager to get their hands on the F35. No, in fact Turkey has a top ~20 military in capability. "Australia, Canada, Denmark, Italy, the Netherlands, Norway, Turkey and the United Kingdom currently are in formal partnership with the United States on the F-35 program. Israel, Japan and South Korea have made orders through the foreign military sales process. Belgium also recently signed on to purchase platforms." [1] The F35 is the second best fighter that can be purchased, behind the F22. Its technology platform is superior to the F22 and far beyond anything anyone else has. Russia can't get their 5th gen planes to operate properly or get them into volume production (despite numerous failed declarations of such, and 20 years of development). China hasn't demonstrated that capability yet either. They're both two decades behind the US in 5th gen planes. The other European powers aren't even on the map when it comes to producing domestic 5th gen, they can't step up to that level at all. [1] https://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/articles/2019/5/24/international-market-for-f-35-heats-up https://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/articles/2019/5/24/i...
  - gscott 7y ago
    Israel has made a lot of their own modifications to the F-35 including a new wing design.
  - dreamcompiler 7y ago
    Over time the majority of the best militaries will be shooting F35s out of the sky with 40-year-old fighters. That's assuming the F35s can even take off, given how they need an ALIS download before they can fly, and that's dependent on a working Internet, and assuming they don't break up in flight due to excessive G-forces, and assuming the pilot doesn't have to eject, because lightweight pilots have a 23% chance of dying during ejection because of the heavy helmet. And assuming the F35 didn't run out of fuel before the battle, because it doesn't have enough range for real missions. So yeah, I'm saying all those militaries buying F35s are either stupid or desperate. Turkey won't be buying F35s because they bought missiles from the Russians. This is going to be a very good thing for Turkey's national security in the long run; they just don't know it yet. If the following reports are to be believed, the F35 is overdesigned, overpriced, doesn't work, and cannot be made to work. It's a piece of absolute crap. Are all these reports wrong? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17876723 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17876723 https://breakingdefense.com/2019/03/air-force-moving-f-35s-alis-from-a-big-broken-box-to-the-cloud/ https://breakingdefense.com/2019/03/air-force-moving-f-35s-a... https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1015212921071329281.html https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1015212921071329281.html https://warisboring.com/the-f-35-is-a-terrible-fighter-bomber-and-attacker-and-unfit-for-aircraft-carriers/ https://warisboring.com/the-f-35-is-a-terrible-fighter-bombe... https://www.thedailybeast.com/america-is-stuck-with-a-dollar400-billion-stealth-fighter-that-cant-fight https://www.thedailybeast.com/america-is-stuck-with-a-dollar... https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/03/28/f35_software_fail/ https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/03/28/f35_software_fail/ https://www.defensenews.com/air/2019/06/12/the-pentagon-is-battling-the-clock-to-fix-serious-unreported-f-35-problems/ https://www.defensenews.com/air/2019/06/12/the-pentagon-is-b... https://defensesystems.com/articles/2015/01/28/f-35-joint-strike-fighter-software-flaws.aspx https://defensesystems.com/articles/2015/01/28/f-35-joint-st... http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articles-view/feature/5/168580/us-software-stranglehold-threatens-f_35-foreign-operations.html http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articles-view/feature/5/168... https://medium.com/war-is-boring/fd-how-the-u-s-and-its-allies-got-stuck-with-the-worlds-worst-new-warplane-5c95d45f86a5 https://medium.com/war-is-boring/fd-how-the-u-s-and-its-alli... https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/05/navys-f-35-doesnt-have-range-for-real-stealth-strikes-house-report-says/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/05/navys-f-35-doesn...
    - 7y ago

Yes, the F-22 is the one that works. It works well enough the US is not selling them to its allies, but they are selling the F-35 (to anybody stupid enough to buy them).

adventured 7y ago
> to anybody stupid enough to buy them You mean many of the elite militaries on the planet? Israel for example is not known for buying non-working trash as a primary to defend its skies with. Over time the majority of the best militaries will all fly the F35. Turkey must be a joke according to your premise, that's why they're so eager to get their hands on the F35. No, in fact Turkey has a top ~20 military in capability. "Australia, Canada, Denmark, Italy, the Netherlands, Norway, Turkey and the United Kingdom currently are in formal partnership with the United States on the F-35 program. Israel, Japan and South Korea have made orders through the foreign military sales process. Belgium also recently signed on to purchase platforms." [1] The F35 is the second best fighter that can be purchased, behind the F22. Its technology platform is superior to the F22 and far beyond anything anyone else has. Russia can't get their 5th gen planes to operate properly or get them into volume production (despite numerous failed declarations of such, and 20 years of development). China hasn't demonstrated that capability yet either. They're both two decades behind the US in 5th gen planes. The other European powers aren't even on the map when it comes to producing domestic 5th gen, they can't step up to that level at all. [1] https://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/articles/2019/5/24/international-market-for-f-35-heats-up https://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/articles/2019/5/24/i...
- gscott 7y ago
  Israel has made a lot of their own modifications to the F-35 including a new wing design.
- dreamcompiler 7y ago
  Over time the majority of the best militaries will be shooting F35s out of the sky with 40-year-old fighters. That's assuming the F35s can even take off, given how they need an ALIS download before they can fly, and that's dependent on a working Internet, and assuming they don't break up in flight due to excessive G-forces, and assuming the pilot doesn't have to eject, because lightweight pilots have a 23% chance of dying during ejection because of the heavy helmet. And assuming the F35 didn't run out of fuel before the battle, because it doesn't have enough range for real missions. So yeah, I'm saying all those militaries buying F35s are either stupid or desperate. Turkey won't be buying F35s because they bought missiles from the Russians. This is going to be a very good thing for Turkey's national security in the long run; they just don't know it yet. If the following reports are to be believed, the F35 is overdesigned, overpriced, doesn't work, and cannot be made to work. It's a piece of absolute crap. Are all these reports wrong? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17876723 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17876723 https://breakingdefense.com/2019/03/air-force-moving-f-35s-alis-from-a-big-broken-box-to-the-cloud/ https://breakingdefense.com/2019/03/air-force-moving-f-35s-a... https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1015212921071329281.html https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1015212921071329281.html https://warisboring.com/the-f-35-is-a-terrible-fighter-bomber-and-attacker-and-unfit-for-aircraft-carriers/ https://warisboring.com/the-f-35-is-a-terrible-fighter-bombe... https://www.thedailybeast.com/america-is-stuck-with-a-dollar400-billion-stealth-fighter-that-cant-fight https://www.thedailybeast.com/america-is-stuck-with-a-dollar... https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/03/28/f35_software_fail/ https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/03/28/f35_software_fail/ https://www.defensenews.com/air/2019/06/12/the-pentagon-is-battling-the-clock-to-fix-serious-unreported-f-35-problems/ https://www.defensenews.com/air/2019/06/12/the-pentagon-is-b... https://defensesystems.com/articles/2015/01/28/f-35-joint-strike-fighter-software-flaws.aspx https://defensesystems.com/articles/2015/01/28/f-35-joint-st... http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articles-view/feature/5/168580/us-software-stranglehold-threatens-f_35-foreign-operations.html http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articles-view/feature/5/168... https://medium.com/war-is-boring/fd-how-the-u-s-and-its-allies-got-stuck-with-the-worlds-worst-new-warplane-5c95d45f86a5 https://medium.com/war-is-boring/fd-how-the-u-s-and-its-alli... https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/05/navys-f-35-doesnt-have-range-for-real-stealth-strikes-house-report-says/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/05/navys-f-35-doesn...
  - 7y ago