3 ms·

I dunno, it seems like the function of these Megapacks is to replace natural gas driven peaker plants? Europe doesn't have nearly as many of those as the US doe

I dunno, it seems like the function of these Megapacks is to replace natural gas driven peaker plants? Europe doesn't have nearly as many of those as the US does. AFAIK Switzerland in particular has exactly zero, thanks to all that lovely hydropower that can be turned on and off to match solar/wind fluctuations. In fact, Switzerland alone has hydropower equivalent to 10 000 Megapacks. This basically means you can install all the renewables you want.

Scoundreller 7y ago
And with hydroelectricity often comes pumped-storage opportunities.
eisa01 7y ago
The coal and nuclear phase outs across Europe will lead to a need for new flexible capacity. That should at least partly be covered by battery peakers.
- CarVac 7y ago
  Nuclear isn't flexible capacity; plants are always run at max output. If it is to be phased out the replacement needs to have more long-term output than a battery, unless the renewables become incredibly overprovisioned.
  - pertymcpert 7y ago
    Always run at max output? This doesn't seem right to me, they have moderators for a reason don't they?
  - toomuchtodo 7y ago
    > Nuclear isn't flexible capacity; plants are always run at max output. In France and Germany, nuclear reactors are configured and permitted to run in load following mode. It's harder on the valves and similar equipment, but it can and is done. [1] > unless the renewables become incredibly overprovisioned. Which is the likely outcome, as solar and wind are still declining in cost and in some places the cost is as low as 2 cents/kwh. The generation will be cheap (what's the old saying? "too cheap to meter"?), and it'll be the storage that'll cost a bit more. [1] https://www.oecd-nea.org/nea-news/2011/29-2/nea-news-29-2-load-following-e.pdf https://www.oecd-nea.org/nea-news/2011/29-2/nea-news-29-2-lo...
  - lyschoening 7y ago
    There's an ambition to integrate the huge European market with HVDC lines, which should allow excess capacity to be shared more efficiently.

Scoundreller 7y ago

And with hydroelectricity often comes pumped-storage opportunities.

eisa01 7y ago

The coal and nuclear phase outs across Europe will lead to a need for new flexible capacity. That should at least partly be covered by battery peakers.

CarVac 7y ago
Nuclear isn't flexible capacity; plants are always run at max output. If it is to be phased out the replacement needs to have more long-term output than a battery, unless the renewables become incredibly overprovisioned.
- pertymcpert 7y ago
  Always run at max output? This doesn't seem right to me, they have moderators for a reason don't they?
- toomuchtodo 7y ago
  > Nuclear isn't flexible capacity; plants are always run at max output. In France and Germany, nuclear reactors are configured and permitted to run in load following mode. It's harder on the valves and similar equipment, but it can and is done. [1] > unless the renewables become incredibly overprovisioned. Which is the likely outcome, as solar and wind are still declining in cost and in some places the cost is as low as 2 cents/kwh. The generation will be cheap (what's the old saying? "too cheap to meter"?), and it'll be the storage that'll cost a bit more. [1] https://www.oecd-nea.org/nea-news/2011/29-2/nea-news-29-2-load-following-e.pdf https://www.oecd-nea.org/nea-news/2011/29-2/nea-news-29-2-lo...
- lyschoening 7y ago
  There's an ambition to integrate the huge European market with HVDC lines, which should allow excess capacity to be shared more efficiently.