5 ms·

Can't this be a 'make work' project? Get people working. Or, sort recycling/garbage for half a day, and get half a day of free technical training in something

Can't this be a 'make work' project? Get people working. Or, sort recycling/garbage for half a day, and get half a day of free technical training in something like welding or auto mechanics?

pjc50 7y ago
Like everything else, where would the money come from?
- tylerflick 7y ago
  A tax to capture the cost of the trash being thrown away.
La-ang 7y ago
I guess that's a good question for Moodi
goodcanadian 7y ago
The problem is not a lack of people sorting. Quite the opposite, in fact. There is a glut of sorted recyclables and the prices people can get for it have collapsed.
- sp332 7y ago
  If the recycling were getting sorted for free, more recycling stations would be viable businesses.
  - devops_monkey 7y ago
    Not really. The bigger problem at the moment is that the market for recycled materials has effectively disappeared. No one is buying these commodities right now. Chinese government owned businesses spent a lot of money buying US paper and plastic mills then shut them down so they could bring those industries to mainland China. Then they discovered that it wasn't as good a business as they hoped. Now they have stopped buying our recycled materials so prices have dropped. Some commodities prices have even gone negative, meaning recycling facilities are paying to have materials removed from the warehouse. So even if sorting was free, most materials are either sitting in warehouses or simply going into the landfill. source: I work in the industry.
    - Scoundreller 7y ago
      Even if commodity prices are negative, there’s still a price where it’s cheaper than landfill, no?
      - jeddawson 7y ago
        It really depends on the region since landfill rates vary wildly. In California: most likely yes since landfilling is relatively expensive, but again depends. Waste haulers have always had a non-zero expense for recycling even when the processed materials had strong values. This is because the recycling has to be collected, transported, sorted/processed, then shipped again. Depending on the local market, regulations, incentives/subsidies, and distances involved for shipping it can very easily end up that a negative commodity price tips the scales in favor of landfilling. Also, it's worth noting that some portion of the recycling stream will end up in a landfill regardless of the commodity price because it's contaminated (or just not a recyclable material) which has an impact on the overall cost per ton of recycling. Commodity prices going negative just push this to include more of the stream since it means only the "best" materials are economically viable for further processing and shipping. It's a balancing act that the industry has been doing internally for a long time, but now it's becoming a serious issue since large amounts of the recycling stream need to be landfilled if we don't want to spend a whole lot more than we already do on solid waste.
      - devops_monkey 7y ago
        It can be, but in some cases there are simply no buyers at any price point. And there's no way anyone is going to spend more money building larger warehouse to hold the commodity. So it get stacked until the warehouse is full, then operators have no choice but to put it in the landfill.
    - jeddawson 7y ago
      I work in the industry too. I'm always curious about what other's in this industry do when they're on HN, so if you're able can you share what you do? As far as me: I'm the lead engineer for the mobile and api products at one of the major software providers for independent waste haulers in the US. My family owns and operates a hauling operation in CA, so I've spent my entire life surrounded by the inner workings of solid waste collection, hauling, and processing.
olivermarks 7y ago
Welding is a very highly skilled profession while 'auto mechanics' is now increasingly highly specialized and restricted by manufacturer DRM.

Can't this be a 'make work' project? Get people working. Or, sort recycling/garbage for half a day, and get half a day of free technical training in something like welding or auto mechanics?

pjc50 7y ago

Like everything else, where would the money come from?

tylerflick 7y ago
A tax to capture the cost of the trash being thrown away.

La-ang 7y ago

I guess that's a good question for Moodi

goodcanadian 7y ago

The problem is not a lack of people sorting. Quite the opposite, in fact. There is a glut of sorted recyclables and the prices people can get for it have collapsed.

sp332 7y ago
If the recycling were getting sorted for free, more recycling stations would be viable businesses.
- devops_monkey 7y ago
  Not really. The bigger problem at the moment is that the market for recycled materials has effectively disappeared. No one is buying these commodities right now. Chinese government owned businesses spent a lot of money buying US paper and plastic mills then shut them down so they could bring those industries to mainland China. Then they discovered that it wasn't as good a business as they hoped. Now they have stopped buying our recycled materials so prices have dropped. Some commodities prices have even gone negative, meaning recycling facilities are paying to have materials removed from the warehouse. So even if sorting was free, most materials are either sitting in warehouses or simply going into the landfill. source: I work in the industry.
  - Scoundreller 7y ago
    Even if commodity prices are negative, there’s still a price where it’s cheaper than landfill, no?
    - jeddawson 7y ago
      It really depends on the region since landfill rates vary wildly. In California: most likely yes since landfilling is relatively expensive, but again depends. Waste haulers have always had a non-zero expense for recycling even when the processed materials had strong values. This is because the recycling has to be collected, transported, sorted/processed, then shipped again. Depending on the local market, regulations, incentives/subsidies, and distances involved for shipping it can very easily end up that a negative commodity price tips the scales in favor of landfilling. Also, it's worth noting that some portion of the recycling stream will end up in a landfill regardless of the commodity price because it's contaminated (or just not a recyclable material) which has an impact on the overall cost per ton of recycling. Commodity prices going negative just push this to include more of the stream since it means only the "best" materials are economically viable for further processing and shipping. It's a balancing act that the industry has been doing internally for a long time, but now it's becoming a serious issue since large amounts of the recycling stream need to be landfilled if we don't want to spend a whole lot more than we already do on solid waste.
    - devops_monkey 7y ago
      It can be, but in some cases there are simply no buyers at any price point. And there's no way anyone is going to spend more money building larger warehouse to hold the commodity. So it get stacked until the warehouse is full, then operators have no choice but to put it in the landfill.
  - jeddawson 7y ago
    I work in the industry too. I'm always curious about what other's in this industry do when they're on HN, so if you're able can you share what you do? As far as me: I'm the lead engineer for the mobile and api products at one of the major software providers for independent waste haulers in the US. My family owns and operates a hauling operation in CA, so I've spent my entire life surrounded by the inner workings of solid waste collection, hauling, and processing.

olivermarks 7y ago

Welding is a very highly skilled profession while 'auto mechanics' is now increasingly highly specialized and restricted by manufacturer DRM.