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Who is lobbying for this? Who wants this legislation to pass, and why? (American here, not sure how things work in Australia, but these are questions I often as

Who is lobbying for this? Who wants this legislation to pass, and why? (American here, not sure how things work in Australia, but these are questions I often ask in my own country)

King-Aaron 7y ago
That's a very good question.
johnasmith 7y ago
> The Black Economy Taskforce recommended this action to tackle tax evasion and other criminal activities.
- sbisker 7y ago
  Guessing someone flagged the parent comment thinking there was a racial connotation, so vouching it back from the dead. https://treasury.gov.au/review/black-economy-taskforce/ https://treasury.gov.au/review/black-economy-taskforce/
  - theshadowknows 7y ago
    We say African American Economy Taskforce now
    - codeddesign 7y ago
      But why?? What if I’m from the Caribbean?
tumetab1 7y ago
Banks, credit cards and payment processors and off course NSA and friends.
bhaavan 7y ago
I think the government, holds to benefit from this, and there might be no need of lobbying. Any transaction in cash for such a high amount, is intentionally done to keep the transaction off-book (and avoid taxes). There is little reason, why one would go through the inconvenience of managing so much cash, when a digital transaction is so much more ergonomical. India too is aggressively trying to achieve this. One of their rather bold attempts, called demonetization, happened a few years back, but it failed. However, in principle, I agree with the idea of having a cashless economy, so that government has data to see who is lying in their tax returns.
- ajsnigrutin 7y ago
  > However, in principle, I agree with the idea of having a cashless economy, so that government has data to see who is lying in their tax returns. This is really bad, because it prevents any kind of privacy. Want to buy a huge dildo from HugeDildos Inc.? Now you can just pay with cash. With cashless economies, you will now have their company name on your bank statements. And this is just a stupid example. What do you do in a case where you have legalized Marijuana at a state level and illegal at federal level (like in us). You can sell it in your state, but you cannot get a bank account. And what happens if there's a blackout? How do you buy food?
  - icebraining 7y ago
    I'm not a fan of the bill, but it is only restricting payments over $10 000. You can still buy dildos with cash, unless it's gem-encrusted or something like that.
    - ajsnigrutin 7y ago
      That's just the first step. They lowered the limit to 420eur for independent contractors and companies here in Slovenia. They wanted to lower it to 50eur, but luckily failed.
      - otherme123 7y ago
fit2rule 7y ago
Australias law enforcement community have a strong influence on Australian culture, and it is they who are lobbying for more restrictions on Australians' free speech, censorship, and use of cryptography. There isn't really any legislation which protects free speech in Australia, like there are in many other western nations - there is instead an 'implied right' granted to Australian citizens by the sovereign, but this is mostly an untested grey area at the moment - and Australians in general don't care about their basic human rights as long as there are avocados to smash.
- torified 7y ago
  Some Australians care but all of these horrific laws are getting passed with bipartisan support.
  - fit2rule 7y ago
    Yes, its a terrible state of affairs when the people of a nation as resourceful as Australia, are not ruled by individuals who represent the will of the people. Then again, the will of the people - alas, easily modified at scale in Australia - is not something we can always depend on to do the right thing. Australia has many, many examples of the collective will of the populace resulting in heinous conditions ...
nwellnhof 7y ago
You have to realize that these are just steps towards the end goal of a cash-less society. The financial sector wants to profit from every transaction. Big tech wants to track every transaction. Central banks want negative interest rates. Authoritarian regimes want more control.
- clarkmoody 7y ago
  It's the ultimate crony partnership: all people within the borders are required to use the services of our government-appointed cartel (the banks), or else we'll fine you and jail you. Because obviously, if you care about privacy, you must be a terrorist ... or something. These experiments are the terminal phase of the fiat money disease.
- asah 7y ago
  +1 - in particular, it's notable that the proposed legislation doesn't include an inflation adjustment, i.e. in real terms, the maximum cash transaction will decrease over time until cash becomes impractical, even across multiple transactions.
- TulliusCicero 7y ago
  There are also significant advantages to cashless. Greatly reduced incentive to pickpocket or mug people, for example, and it's harder to accidentally lose money.
  - aNoob7000 7y ago
    If people truly understood the ramification of a completely cashless society, I think they would have no problem with some of the trade-offs.
    - hndamien 7y ago
      If they cashless society used Monero, or a fungible version of Bitcoin, sure. Even then though, it still excludes people without digital means - which is immoral.
    - 7y ago
nikanj 7y ago
Alice the Accountant and Gary the Government Worker, who are pissed that their friends Bob the Bartender and Charlie the Cabdriver get to skip paying taxes. Envy and jealousy are extremely strong forces.
- JustSomeNobody 7y ago
  But is it worth all the things one has to give up just to make sure life is fair?
  - at-fates-hands 7y ago
    In my experience, the more you try to make things fair, the more you actually make them less fair.
    - pembrook 7y ago
      Huh? Please name even one example. I’ve got one. Look at any country with natural resources. In a place like Norway, they try to ensure their oil wealth is fairly distributed throughout society. In Russia, they don’t even try to achieve fairness, and oligarchs run away with all the oil profits. Where would you rather live?
      - at-fates-hands 7y ago
        Start with the ACA. It was championed as a way to fix all of the problems of our current system and give access to everybody. 9 years in and its a mess. Overrun with fraud and abuse, people were taken off the plans they were content with (after being told "if you like your plan, you can keep your plan") and put on more expensive plans. Deductions and premiums are increasing, lack of options (after being told there would be more options, not less) and now you're going to have even less people insured since employers are already opting to stop offering coverage in order to push their employees to the ACA plans instead. And now? Now we're being told the only solution is the "medicare for all" option because the ACA is a massive failure.
  - 7y ago

Who is lobbying for this? Who wants this legislation to pass, and why? (American here, not sure how things work in Australia, but these are questions I often ask in my own country)

King-Aaron 7y ago

That's a very good question.

johnasmith 7y ago

> The Black Economy Taskforce recommended this action to tackle tax evasion and other criminal activities.

sbisker 7y ago
Guessing someone flagged the parent comment thinking there was a racial connotation, so vouching it back from the dead. https://treasury.gov.au/review/black-economy-taskforce/ https://treasury.gov.au/review/black-economy-taskforce/
- theshadowknows 7y ago
  We say African American Economy Taskforce now
  - codeddesign 7y ago
    But why?? What if I’m from the Caribbean?

tumetab1 7y ago

Banks, credit cards and payment processors and off course NSA and friends.

bhaavan 7y ago

I think the government, holds to benefit from this, and there might be no need of lobbying. Any transaction in cash for such a high amount, is intentionally done to keep the transaction off-book (and avoid taxes). There is little reason, why one would go through the inconvenience of managing so much cash, when a digital transaction is so much more ergonomical. India too is aggressively trying to achieve this. One of their rather bold attempts, called demonetization, happened a few years back, but it failed. However, in principle, I agree with the idea of having a cashless economy, so that government has data to see who is lying in their tax returns.

ajsnigrutin 7y ago
> However, in principle, I agree with the idea of having a cashless economy, so that government has data to see who is lying in their tax returns. This is really bad, because it prevents any kind of privacy. Want to buy a huge dildo from HugeDildos Inc.? Now you can just pay with cash. With cashless economies, you will now have their company name on your bank statements. And this is just a stupid example. What do you do in a case where you have legalized Marijuana at a state level and illegal at federal level (like in us). You can sell it in your state, but you cannot get a bank account. And what happens if there's a blackout? How do you buy food?
- icebraining 7y ago
  I'm not a fan of the bill, but it is only restricting payments over $10 000. You can still buy dildos with cash, unless it's gem-encrusted or something like that.
  - ajsnigrutin 7y ago
    That's just the first step. They lowered the limit to 420eur for independent contractors and companies here in Slovenia. They wanted to lower it to 50eur, but luckily failed.
    - otherme123 7y ago

fit2rule 7y ago

Australias law enforcement community have a strong influence on Australian culture, and it is they who are lobbying for more restrictions on Australians' free speech, censorship, and use of cryptography. There isn't really any legislation which protects free speech in Australia, like there are in many other western nations - there is instead an 'implied right' granted to Australian citizens by the sovereign, but this is mostly an untested grey area at the moment - and Australians in general don't care about their basic human rights as long as there are avocados to smash.

torified 7y ago
Some Australians care but all of these horrific laws are getting passed with bipartisan support.
- fit2rule 7y ago
  Yes, its a terrible state of affairs when the people of a nation as resourceful as Australia, are not ruled by individuals who represent the will of the people. Then again, the will of the people - alas, easily modified at scale in Australia - is not something we can always depend on to do the right thing. Australia has many, many examples of the collective will of the populace resulting in heinous conditions ...

nwellnhof 7y ago

You have to realize that these are just steps towards the end goal of a cash-less society. The financial sector wants to profit from every transaction. Big tech wants to track every transaction. Central banks want negative interest rates. Authoritarian regimes want more control.

clarkmoody 7y ago
It's the ultimate crony partnership: all people within the borders are required to use the services of our government-appointed cartel (the banks), or else we'll fine you and jail you. Because obviously, if you care about privacy, you must be a terrorist ... or something. These experiments are the terminal phase of the fiat money disease.
asah 7y ago
+1 - in particular, it's notable that the proposed legislation doesn't include an inflation adjustment, i.e. in real terms, the maximum cash transaction will decrease over time until cash becomes impractical, even across multiple transactions.
TulliusCicero 7y ago
There are also significant advantages to cashless. Greatly reduced incentive to pickpocket or mug people, for example, and it's harder to accidentally lose money.
- aNoob7000 7y ago
  If people truly understood the ramification of a completely cashless society, I think they would have no problem with some of the trade-offs.
  - hndamien 7y ago
    If they cashless society used Monero, or a fungible version of Bitcoin, sure. Even then though, it still excludes people without digital means - which is immoral.
  - 7y ago

nikanj 7y ago

Alice the Accountant and Gary the Government Worker, who are pissed that their friends Bob the Bartender and Charlie the Cabdriver get to skip paying taxes. Envy and jealousy are extremely strong forces.

JustSomeNobody 7y ago
But is it worth all the things one has to give up just to make sure life is fair?
- at-fates-hands 7y ago
  In my experience, the more you try to make things fair, the more you actually make them less fair.
  - pembrook 7y ago
    Huh? Please name even one example. I’ve got one. Look at any country with natural resources. In a place like Norway, they try to ensure their oil wealth is fairly distributed throughout society. In Russia, they don’t even try to achieve fairness, and oligarchs run away with all the oil profits. Where would you rather live?
    - at-fates-hands 7y ago
      Start with the ACA. It was championed as a way to fix all of the problems of our current system and give access to everybody. 9 years in and its a mess. Overrun with fraud and abuse, people were taken off the plans they were content with (after being told "if you like your plan, you can keep your plan") and put on more expensive plans. Deductions and premiums are increasing, lack of options (after being told there would be more options, not less) and now you're going to have even less people insured since employers are already opting to stop offering coverage in order to push their employees to the ACA plans instead. And now? Now we're being told the only solution is the "medicare for all" option because the ACA is a massive failure.
- 7y ago