5 ms·

> “All these years I have been feeling like I’m doing something responsible,” said Pai, clearly dumbstruck as she walked away with a full bag. “The truth hurts.

by apo 7y ago

> “All these years I have been feeling like I’m doing something responsible,” said Pai, clearly dumbstruck as she walked away with a full bag. “The truth hurts.” All is not lost. Consumers can be responsible by radically cutting consumption.

realshowbiz 7y ago
Consumption of what? For example: Virtually every food item is packaged in plastic. And it’s not consumers who decided it was more cost effective to use disposable plastic than wash a reusable container.
- riffraff 7y ago
  > Virtually every food item is packaged in plastic Is it? Most of what I buy (vegetables, fruits, bread, eggs, milk, pasta, flour, sugar, salt, oil) is not. Meat, fish, rice, and cheese are the things that require some plastic, afaict, but do not constitute the majority of food.
  - savoytruffle 7y ago
    In my kitchen cupboards right now, I have all of these things packaged in plastic and I've never seen an alternative except sometimes milk in returnable glass jugs that nobody in the store knows how to ring up to get the deposit back.
    - riffraff 7y ago
      interesting, where do you live? I have seen pasta packaged in plastic, but I've literally never seen flour packaged in plastic.
  - GordonS 7y ago
    Yes, a lot of fruit and veg is usually loose, unless you're buying it pre-chopped. There is still a lot of fruit and veg that is wrapped in plastic though. I don't think I've ever seen pasta not in a plastic wrapper? For milk, it's usually in a plastic bottle, but often in tetra-pak type containers (don't honestly know what they're made of!). With oil, it's usually in a plastic bottle, occasionally a glass one for more expensive EV olive oils, and rarely in Europe I've seen shops with oil dispensers that allow you to fill your own container. For eggs, they are usually in a cardboard box, but occasionally in a plastic one. For salt, I think I've only ever seen it in plastic bottles or bags.
    - icebraining 7y ago
      > tetra-pak type containers (don't honestly know what they're made of!). It's layers of plastic, aluminum and paper glued together. The first two can't be separated, but they claim it's reused somewhere in construction.
- tonyedgecombe 7y ago
  There are some seeds of change in this, one of my local supermarkets is running an experiment with more loose produce. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48498346 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48498346
robocat 7y ago
> Consumers can be responsible by radically cutting consumption. If I drop my consumption by $20k, I believe my extra investment of $20k will get consumed elsewhere in the economy. If I spend that $20k on eco-friendly shit, I believe that the people I spent it on spend the majority of that on non-eco friendly shit (e.g. international travel holidays). I want a better answer - one that isn't some simplistic catchphrase.
- beatgammit 7y ago
  Invest that money into eco-friendly companies? Or donate it to eco-friendly causes.
  - carapace 7y ago
    Think about the "sub graph" of the economy that is wholly ecologically harmonious. I'm trying to come up with ways to help people transition to an ecological lifestyle. Like, start with the people who are already living off-grid, growing their own food, etc., and then make a catalog of all their products/services.
  - robocat 7y ago
    Let's take an example: Greenpeace (who I do think are valuable activists): yet I have seen their money go on boats (obvious consumption), or paying international travelers to canvas for money (obvious consumption by the travelers), and I have no trust that the payments by Greenpeace are anything but average consumption. And a lot of "eco-friendly" consumption is pure green-washing. I know people that provide eco friendly services, and I know what they spend their money on, and it is mostly just normal consumer consumption (e.g. international holidays which is clearly pure "waste"). Or eco-friendly people with 5 kids - who just can't see that children are a multiplier effect on current and future consumption.
    - zenbane 7y ago
      Greenpeace lobbies against Nuclear, worth digging deeper on them.
    - 7y ago

by apo 7y ago

realshowbiz 7y ago

Consumption of what? For example: Virtually every food item is packaged in plastic. And it’s not consumers who decided it was more cost effective to use disposable plastic than wash a reusable container.

riffraff 7y ago
> Virtually every food item is packaged in plastic Is it? Most of what I buy (vegetables, fruits, bread, eggs, milk, pasta, flour, sugar, salt, oil) is not. Meat, fish, rice, and cheese are the things that require some plastic, afaict, but do not constitute the majority of food.
- savoytruffle 7y ago
  In my kitchen cupboards right now, I have all of these things packaged in plastic and I've never seen an alternative except sometimes milk in returnable glass jugs that nobody in the store knows how to ring up to get the deposit back.
  - riffraff 7y ago
    interesting, where do you live? I have seen pasta packaged in plastic, but I've literally never seen flour packaged in plastic.
- GordonS 7y ago
  Yes, a lot of fruit and veg is usually loose, unless you're buying it pre-chopped. There is still a lot of fruit and veg that is wrapped in plastic though. I don't think I've ever seen pasta not in a plastic wrapper? For milk, it's usually in a plastic bottle, but often in tetra-pak type containers (don't honestly know what they're made of!). With oil, it's usually in a plastic bottle, occasionally a glass one for more expensive EV olive oils, and rarely in Europe I've seen shops with oil dispensers that allow you to fill your own container. For eggs, they are usually in a cardboard box, but occasionally in a plastic one. For salt, I think I've only ever seen it in plastic bottles or bags.
  - icebraining 7y ago
    > tetra-pak type containers (don't honestly know what they're made of!). It's layers of plastic, aluminum and paper glued together. The first two can't be separated, but they claim it's reused somewhere in construction.
tonyedgecombe 7y ago
There are some seeds of change in this, one of my local supermarkets is running an experiment with more loose produce. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48498346 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48498346

robocat 7y ago

> Consumers can be responsible by radically cutting consumption. If I drop my consumption by $20k, I believe my extra investment of $20k will get consumed elsewhere in the economy. If I spend that $20k on eco-friendly shit, I believe that the people I spent it on spend the majority of that on non-eco friendly shit (e.g. international travel holidays). I want a better answer - one that isn't some simplistic catchphrase.

beatgammit 7y ago
Invest that money into eco-friendly companies? Or donate it to eco-friendly causes.
- carapace 7y ago
  Think about the "sub graph" of the economy that is wholly ecologically harmonious. I'm trying to come up with ways to help people transition to an ecological lifestyle. Like, start with the people who are already living off-grid, growing their own food, etc., and then make a catalog of all their products/services.
- robocat 7y ago
  Let's take an example: Greenpeace (who I do think are valuable activists): yet I have seen their money go on boats (obvious consumption), or paying international travelers to canvas for money (obvious consumption by the travelers), and I have no trust that the payments by Greenpeace are anything but average consumption. And a lot of "eco-friendly" consumption is pure green-washing. I know people that provide eco friendly services, and I know what they spend their money on, and it is mostly just normal consumer consumption (e.g. international holidays which is clearly pure "waste"). Or eco-friendly people with 5 kids - who just can't see that children are a multiplier effect on current and future consumption.
  - zenbane 7y ago
    Greenpeace lobbies against Nuclear, worth digging deeper on them.
  - 7y ago