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Many HNers have a weird belief that Apple is somehow a privacy focused company, despite it actually being no more private than Facebook or Google. The main con

Many HNers have a weird belief that Apple is somehow a privacy focused company, despite it actually being no more private than Facebook or Google. The main concern people have (voice assistants beside) is data gathering for ads, which Apple does for their app search, among other places. Also, their data centers are in China, which gives Chinese authorities full access to their iCloud account. If you want privacy, don't rely on corporations. Host everything yourself, and encrypt your data at rest and in flight.

Aloha 7y ago
Their datacenter for Chinese customers are in china. I expect them to take reasonable precautions, mistakes do get made. I'm not a user of voice assistants, I'd rather use the device directly, its faster anyhow. To quote from the article "Voice assistants appear to be yet another instance where a technology has been developed and adopted faster than its consequences have been fully thought-out."
- j2bax 7y ago
  There are at least a few instances where using a voice assistant is far faster than using the device directly. An example that I use frequently is something like “hey Siri remind me to change my furnace filter in 3 months”. In many cases using a voice command/shortcut is quicker than navigating to an app and locating the ui to do it.
  - kemayo 7y ago
    I'm particularly fond of "hey Siri, when I get home remind me to take out the trash" as a shortcut.
- forgotmyhnacc 7y ago
  > Their datacenter for Chinese customers are in china. Why is it okay for an American company to allow foreign, human right violator governments to spy on their citizens?
  - gremlinsinc 7y ago
    Okay? It's not really. But it's the price of cheap labor in China and any other incentive they have for doing business there. Everything done in China comes with a no-privacy guarantee you can't take a shit in China without them knowing the color and consistency.
panpanna 7y ago
> Many HNers have a weird belief that Apple is somehow a privacy focused company Note how the top comments here branch into criticizing Google? It takes a lot to change people's opinions in such matters. It just easier to repeat the same old same old arguments and continue with our lives...
- blub 7y ago
  Google is the worst at privacy. Even when Apple or any other company fucks up it's always worth noting that, maybe it dents their undeserved reputation even more.
  - bitreality 7y ago
    Arguing over which tech behemoth is worse at privacy is pointless. The fact is that they are incentivized against privacy. Your data is valuable. The cost of anonymizing your data is expensive, and offers little measurable ROI. Some companies work on providing the illusion that they care about privacy. But at the end of the day, unless it's convenient for them, and does not interfere with their goal, you should assume the worst.
    - blub 7y ago
      No, because privacy in today's world is not black and white. Apple is definitely much better than MS and Google, so people that e.g. buy Apple smartphones have better privacy than Android users. This is not a theoretical concern: I can buy an iPad for my parents, turn of iCloud & Siri, install an Ad-blocker and they will be reasonably safe from cybercriminals and spyware companies like Google.
z3t4 7y ago
Knowing your users and how they use your software is too big of an advantage, and it seems users doesnt care, or is there a market for users willing to pay for privacy!?
- Kye 7y ago
  This is a "blue ocean" situation. Plenty of people would care if they understood the hazards of the status quo and a viable alternative existed. People can already make their own privacy-respecting phone, but most people aren't up for it. Someone will have to get close enough to the UX polish of Apple and Google to pull people away. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Ocean_Strategy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Ocean_Strategy
wil421 7y ago
Google makes business off of selling ads. Apple makes their business off selling hardware and software.
- justapassenger 7y ago
  Both models aren’t that different. One is to show you better ads, and make you buy stuff, and other is to make iPhone better, and make you buy it. In both cases they need your data to make money.
- AsyncAwait 7y ago
  Increasingly 'services', for which they want to lock you in for rent.
blub 7y ago
I agree with your general recommendations to not rely on corps and to use crypto, but it's not a weird belief, it's a fact. Google is bar Facebook the worst company in the world at privacy and their whole business model is focused around subverting privacy. There are many studies done by non-profits and government organizations which prove this. They also repeatedly got fined for their rotten practices. That doesn't mean Apple are saints. Any US corporation is suspect and a feature like Siri is broken by design and can't be implemented with privacy in mind.

Aloha 7y ago

Their datacenter for Chinese customers are in china. I expect them to take reasonable precautions, mistakes do get made. I'm not a user of voice assistants, I'd rather use the device directly, its faster anyhow. To quote from the article "Voice assistants appear to be yet another instance where a technology has been developed and adopted faster than its consequences have been fully thought-out."

j2bax 7y ago
There are at least a few instances where using a voice assistant is far faster than using the device directly. An example that I use frequently is something like “hey Siri remind me to change my furnace filter in 3 months”. In many cases using a voice command/shortcut is quicker than navigating to an app and locating the ui to do it.
- kemayo 7y ago
  I'm particularly fond of "hey Siri, when I get home remind me to take out the trash" as a shortcut.
forgotmyhnacc 7y ago
> Their datacenter for Chinese customers are in china. Why is it okay for an American company to allow foreign, human right violator governments to spy on their citizens?
- gremlinsinc 7y ago
  Okay? It's not really. But it's the price of cheap labor in China and any other incentive they have for doing business there. Everything done in China comes with a no-privacy guarantee you can't take a shit in China without them knowing the color and consistency.

panpanna 7y ago

> Many HNers have a weird belief that Apple is somehow a privacy focused company Note how the top comments here branch into criticizing Google? It takes a lot to change people's opinions in such matters. It just easier to repeat the same old same old arguments and continue with our lives...

blub 7y ago
Google is the worst at privacy. Even when Apple or any other company fucks up it's always worth noting that, maybe it dents their undeserved reputation even more.
- bitreality 7y ago
  Arguing over which tech behemoth is worse at privacy is pointless. The fact is that they are incentivized against privacy. Your data is valuable. The cost of anonymizing your data is expensive, and offers little measurable ROI. Some companies work on providing the illusion that they care about privacy. But at the end of the day, unless it's convenient for them, and does not interfere with their goal, you should assume the worst.
  - blub 7y ago
    No, because privacy in today's world is not black and white. Apple is definitely much better than MS and Google, so people that e.g. buy Apple smartphones have better privacy than Android users. This is not a theoretical concern: I can buy an iPad for my parents, turn of iCloud & Siri, install an Ad-blocker and they will be reasonably safe from cybercriminals and spyware companies like Google.

z3t4 7y ago

Knowing your users and how they use your software is too big of an advantage, and it seems users doesnt care, or is there a market for users willing to pay for privacy!?

Kye 7y ago
This is a "blue ocean" situation. Plenty of people would care if they understood the hazards of the status quo and a viable alternative existed. People can already make their own privacy-respecting phone, but most people aren't up for it. Someone will have to get close enough to the UX polish of Apple and Google to pull people away. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Ocean_Strategy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Ocean_Strategy

wil421 7y ago

Google makes business off of selling ads. Apple makes their business off selling hardware and software.

justapassenger 7y ago
Both models aren’t that different. One is to show you better ads, and make you buy stuff, and other is to make iPhone better, and make you buy it. In both cases they need your data to make money.
AsyncAwait 7y ago
Increasingly 'services', for which they want to lock you in for rent.

blub 7y ago

I agree with your general recommendations to not rely on corps and to use crypto, but it's not a weird belief, it's a fact. Google is bar Facebook the worst company in the world at privacy and their whole business model is focused around subverting privacy. There are many studies done by non-profits and government organizations which prove this. They also repeatedly got fined for their rotten practices. That doesn't mean Apple are saints. Any US corporation is suspect and a feature like Siri is broken by design and can't be implemented with privacy in mind.