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Lithium ion battery prices are currently below $0.17 per watt-hour and expected to drop below $0.10 by 2024. Does the all iron battery have any advantages asid

Lithium ion battery prices are currently below $0.17 per watt-hour and expected to drop below $0.10 by 2024. Does the all iron battery have any advantages aside from being more environmentally friendly and not requiring lithium? I must admit, the "safe for DIY" description makes me want to give it a try.

bigiain 7y ago
I'm also curious about it's potential to be built from recycled/junkyard resources, instead of needing access to rare earth metals. (Perhaps post-apocalyptically...)
- maxerickson 7y ago
  Just go with lead-acid in the apocalypse. Embrace the aesthetic.
dredmorbius 7y ago
Iron is extremely abundant. It's too heavy for most mobile applications, but might serve stationary needs.
- solarkraft 7y ago
  Lithium batteries from EOL cars are also going to become extremely abundant.
  - majewsky 7y ago
    Maybe in 20 years. As usage of electric cars is still ramping up, demand for new batteries is going to outstrip supply of old batteries by far. And that's before we ask how difficult it is to extract raw materials from old batteries.
    - mceachen 7y ago
      FWIW, the majority of the EV fleet with air-cooled batteries in hotter US states (like Arizona) are already needing battery replacements after ~5 years. See LEAF and eGolf.
    - solarkraft 7y ago
      FWIW, my city (Lünen, Germany) has 2 Multi-MWh storages built from them (1 from batteries from Smart cars, 1 possibly from i-MiEV batteries). Without any material-level recycling, just simple reuse, as energy density is a lot less important than for cars. Maybe having 2 of those (admittedly pilot) projects in my backyard biases my estimations of their availability.
ed_balls 7y ago
My understanding is that Lithium is not a big problem. Cobalt is more rare.
- Gibbon1 7y ago
  Last time I looked that appeared to be the case. Lithium is extracted[1] from primary sources. The rub then is that supply is limited by low historical demand and can be fixed by tapping other sources. The supply demand curve is thus just steep in the short term. Cobalt is mostly a by-product of copper mining. Being a by-product means it's highly supply constrained. So the supply demand curve is very steep over the short, medium and long term. [1] Leached from salt deposits or extracted from saline water sources.

bigiain 7y ago

I'm also curious about it's potential to be built from recycled/junkyard resources, instead of needing access to rare earth metals. (Perhaps post-apocalyptically...)

maxerickson 7y ago
Just go with lead-acid in the apocalypse. Embrace the aesthetic.

dredmorbius 7y ago

Iron is extremely abundant. It's too heavy for most mobile applications, but might serve stationary needs.

solarkraft 7y ago
Lithium batteries from EOL cars are also going to become extremely abundant.
- majewsky 7y ago
  Maybe in 20 years. As usage of electric cars is still ramping up, demand for new batteries is going to outstrip supply of old batteries by far. And that's before we ask how difficult it is to extract raw materials from old batteries.
  - mceachen 7y ago
    FWIW, the majority of the EV fleet with air-cooled batteries in hotter US states (like Arizona) are already needing battery replacements after ~5 years. See LEAF and eGolf.
  - solarkraft 7y ago
    FWIW, my city (Lünen, Germany) has 2 Multi-MWh storages built from them (1 from batteries from Smart cars, 1 possibly from i-MiEV batteries). Without any material-level recycling, just simple reuse, as energy density is a lot less important than for cars. Maybe having 2 of those (admittedly pilot) projects in my backyard biases my estimations of their availability.

ed_balls 7y ago

My understanding is that Lithium is not a big problem. Cobalt is more rare.

Gibbon1 7y ago
Last time I looked that appeared to be the case. Lithium is extracted[1] from primary sources. The rub then is that supply is limited by low historical demand and can be fixed by tapping other sources. The supply demand curve is thus just steep in the short term. Cobalt is mostly a by-product of copper mining. Being a by-product means it's highly supply constrained. So the supply demand curve is very steep over the short, medium and long term. [1] Leached from salt deposits or extracted from saline water sources.