5 ms·

I recall reading a CNN scrolling ticker headline about the current European heatwave that said ~5% of European homes/offices have AC. The DOE says 3/4 of Amer

by pizza 7y ago

I recall reading a CNN scrolling ticker headline about the current European heatwave that said ~5% of European homes/offices have AC. The DOE says 3/4 of American homes have AC, and furthermore, AC uses 6% of all electricity generated in the United States, quite staggering imo and a lot more than I would have expected. Without AC, a lot of America would just be too unbearable to support some major communities. [0] https://www.energy.gov/energysaver/home-cooling-systems/air-conditioning https://www.energy.gov/energysaver/home-cooling-systems/air-...

boobsbr 7y ago
I'm seriously tempted, but at the same time, I remember that it would generate MORE heat outside to cool my bedroom. And the surge in electricity would be probably supplied from burning gas or coal. I feel conflicted.
- bobthepanda 7y ago
  Anecdotally, Hong Kong is extremely air conditioned (to the point where it gets a little chilly) and the outside is unbearable when I've been during the summer months.
- mrep 7y ago
  > I remember that it would generate MORE heat outside to cool my bedroom. That's not really an issue: "For a 2014 paper, Francisco Salamanca and colleagues at Arizona State University modeled the effects of air conditioning on surface air temps in Phoenix. They found a nighttime increase of about 2°F (and nothing much during the day)" [0]. If it is powered by gas or coal though, that wouldn't be good. [0]: https://www.popsci.com/ask-us-anything-does-using-ac-make-it-hotter-outside/ https://www.popsci.com/ask-us-anything-does-using-ac-make-it...
ergothus 7y ago
One thing about human life that is remarkable is the dramatic range of climates we can survive in, compared to other species. Makes us forget that it is entirely possible to have climates that we CAN'T survive in (and even more that we wouldn't thrive in).
- tzs 7y ago
  > One thing about human life that is remarkable is the dramatic range of climates we can survive in, compared to other species. We are pretty impressive compared to most other species. One that holds it own, though, is the Yakutian horse [1], a native horse breed of Siberia. They are kept outside year-round, dealing with temperatures of up to 38℃ (100℉) in the summer, and as low as -70℃ (-94℉) in the winter. That's a range of 108℃ (194℉). Of course their human owners also handle those temperatures, but they need buildings and clothes and fuel to do it. They couldn't do it standing around naked in a field like the horses can. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakutian_horse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakutian_horse
Scoundreller 7y ago
I felt like 6% was quite low. A/C is one of the highest wattage circuits that homes have, and it runs for a lot more hours than similar circuits (hot water or cooktops/ovens).
- danellis 7y ago
  Do you mean that it's rated highest, or that you've measured the consumption as the highest? Perhaps it has a high rating for initial inrush currents.
  - Scoundreller 7y ago
    Usually 3-4 kilowatts demand for continuous operation. Depends on sizing obviously. Dunno if they even have measurable inrush demand from the mains as they have capacitors and can't turn on when they fail.
odiroot 7y ago
Why would you pay to install and maintain AC if we (in Central Europe) literally have 2 weeks of real hot summer (about a month recently though)? It would literally be a waste of money.
- RickS 7y ago
  Window mounted AC units are $100 - $200. It sits in a closet except for the 2 months a year that Seattle requires AC. A proper central air system would be overkill, but the small one is worth it. I wonder if window / removable units factor into the DOE's 75% number. From a real estate recordkeeping perspective, my home does not have AC, despite the previous owner permanently building a window unit into the side of the house. If they're not counted, the real number of American homes with AC could be well north of 75%.
  - AnssiH 7y ago
    My understanding is that window mounted A/C units do not fit well into typical European windows that swing (instead of slide which I believe is common in US). Or maybe there is some other reason (e.g. permit stuff) for why I don't really see them. This is what a typical catalog of A/C units looks like in Finland on couple of the largest online retailers: - https://www.verkkokauppa.com/fi/catalog/10597c/Ilmastointilaitteet https://www.verkkokauppa.com/fi/catalog/10597c/Ilmastointila... - https://www.gigantti.fi/catalog/kodin-tuotteet/ilmastointi-ja-ilmanpuhdistus/fi-ilmastointilaitteet/ilmastointilaitteet https://www.gigantti.fi/catalog/kodin-tuotteet/ilmastointi-j... Most ones are $500+ and out of stock for this summer, though I do see at least one "cheap" €499/$550 unit that is still in stock on the second link (Domair DOM100380). The more expensive ones and split heatpumps seem to be in stock as well. I had a split A/C / heatpump installed in my apartment ~5 years ago for ~$2000 inc. installation. No permit was needed from the municipal facades committee as it is not visible from the outside (outdoor unit sits on balcony), just a permission from the housing company as a hole had to be drilled for the pipes. Without A/C indoor temperatures of well over 30°C (86°F) were typical for weeks during summers.
  - GordonS 7y ago
    Just had a quick look in the UK, and the cheapest decent AC unit I could find was around $450 USD, and that was for a standalone unit (couldn't even find a window mounted one).
rndgermandude 7y ago
The inside of my apartment peaked at 28°C when it was 40+°C outside. No AC. While that is still a little uncomfortable, I can power through that it it's just a week or two a year and blast a fan, and take a cold shower or two. As for some window-mounted (temporary) AC, no chance, I'd have to get permission to "build" it from the city first, which I won't unless it's a really good permanently installed one (so it cannot fall and hit somebody) aka "major" construction, and then from my landlord too.
- dfinninger 7y ago
  I have an AC unit on rollers that has a hose out the window[1] to take the bite out of those hot days. Although I've recorded 38C inside my house... Seems like you insulation is a bit better. [1] https://www.homedepot.com/b/Heating-Venting-Cooling-Air-Conditioners-Portable-Air-Conditioners/N-5yc1vZc4m4 https://www.homedepot.com/b/Heating-Venting-Cooling-Air-Cond...
  - Faark 7y ago
    Those single hose ones are a bit idiotic. They take air from around them (i.e. the room air they just cooled) to transfer heat into and move out. That will then replaced by air from the outside, transporting new heat inside. Still better than nothing, and cheaper to buy / easier to use, but I'd hope this is one of those kind of tech we'll see replaced by something better rather soon-ish.
    - tmikaeld 7y ago
      There are two hose units that fixes this problem but they are rare and much more expensive, I 3D printed a set to the back inlet of my single hose one to fix this issue. Works wonders, now hot air are forced out instead of drawn in.

by pizza 7y ago

boobsbr 7y ago

I'm seriously tempted, but at the same time, I remember that it would generate MORE heat outside to cool my bedroom. And the surge in electricity would be probably supplied from burning gas or coal. I feel conflicted.

bobthepanda 7y ago
Anecdotally, Hong Kong is extremely air conditioned (to the point where it gets a little chilly) and the outside is unbearable when I've been during the summer months.
mrep 7y ago
> I remember that it would generate MORE heat outside to cool my bedroom. That's not really an issue: "For a 2014 paper, Francisco Salamanca and colleagues at Arizona State University modeled the effects of air conditioning on surface air temps in Phoenix. They found a nighttime increase of about 2°F (and nothing much during the day)" [0]. If it is powered by gas or coal though, that wouldn't be good. [0]: https://www.popsci.com/ask-us-anything-does-using-ac-make-it-hotter-outside/ https://www.popsci.com/ask-us-anything-does-using-ac-make-it...

ergothus 7y ago

One thing about human life that is remarkable is the dramatic range of climates we can survive in, compared to other species. Makes us forget that it is entirely possible to have climates that we CAN'T survive in (and even more that we wouldn't thrive in).

tzs 7y ago
> One thing about human life that is remarkable is the dramatic range of climates we can survive in, compared to other species. We are pretty impressive compared to most other species. One that holds it own, though, is the Yakutian horse [1], a native horse breed of Siberia. They are kept outside year-round, dealing with temperatures of up to 38℃ (100℉) in the summer, and as low as -70℃ (-94℉) in the winter. That's a range of 108℃ (194℉). Of course their human owners also handle those temperatures, but they need buildings and clothes and fuel to do it. They couldn't do it standing around naked in a field like the horses can. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakutian_horse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakutian_horse

Scoundreller 7y ago

I felt like 6% was quite low. A/C is one of the highest wattage circuits that homes have, and it runs for a lot more hours than similar circuits (hot water or cooktops/ovens).

danellis 7y ago
Do you mean that it's rated highest, or that you've measured the consumption as the highest? Perhaps it has a high rating for initial inrush currents.
- Scoundreller 7y ago
  Usually 3-4 kilowatts demand for continuous operation. Depends on sizing obviously. Dunno if they even have measurable inrush demand from the mains as they have capacitors and can't turn on when they fail.

odiroot 7y ago

Why would you pay to install and maintain AC if we (in Central Europe) literally have 2 weeks of real hot summer (about a month recently though)? It would literally be a waste of money.

RickS 7y ago
Window mounted AC units are $100 - $200. It sits in a closet except for the 2 months a year that Seattle requires AC. A proper central air system would be overkill, but the small one is worth it. I wonder if window / removable units factor into the DOE's 75% number. From a real estate recordkeeping perspective, my home does not have AC, despite the previous owner permanently building a window unit into the side of the house. If they're not counted, the real number of American homes with AC could be well north of 75%.
- AnssiH 7y ago
  My understanding is that window mounted A/C units do not fit well into typical European windows that swing (instead of slide which I believe is common in US). Or maybe there is some other reason (e.g. permit stuff) for why I don't really see them. This is what a typical catalog of A/C units looks like in Finland on couple of the largest online retailers: - https://www.verkkokauppa.com/fi/catalog/10597c/Ilmastointilaitteet https://www.verkkokauppa.com/fi/catalog/10597c/Ilmastointila... - https://www.gigantti.fi/catalog/kodin-tuotteet/ilmastointi-ja-ilmanpuhdistus/fi-ilmastointilaitteet/ilmastointilaitteet https://www.gigantti.fi/catalog/kodin-tuotteet/ilmastointi-j... Most ones are $500+ and out of stock for this summer, though I do see at least one "cheap" €499/$550 unit that is still in stock on the second link (Domair DOM100380). The more expensive ones and split heatpumps seem to be in stock as well. I had a split A/C / heatpump installed in my apartment ~5 years ago for ~$2000 inc. installation. No permit was needed from the municipal facades committee as it is not visible from the outside (outdoor unit sits on balcony), just a permission from the housing company as a hole had to be drilled for the pipes. Without A/C indoor temperatures of well over 30°C (86°F) were typical for weeks during summers.
- GordonS 7y ago
  Just had a quick look in the UK, and the cheapest decent AC unit I could find was around $450 USD, and that was for a standalone unit (couldn't even find a window mounted one).

rndgermandude 7y ago

The inside of my apartment peaked at 28°C when it was 40+°C outside. No AC. While that is still a little uncomfortable, I can power through that it it's just a week or two a year and blast a fan, and take a cold shower or two. As for some window-mounted (temporary) AC, no chance, I'd have to get permission to "build" it from the city first, which I won't unless it's a really good permanently installed one (so it cannot fall and hit somebody) aka "major" construction, and then from my landlord too.

dfinninger 7y ago
I have an AC unit on rollers that has a hose out the window[1] to take the bite out of those hot days. Although I've recorded 38C inside my house... Seems like you insulation is a bit better. [1] https://www.homedepot.com/b/Heating-Venting-Cooling-Air-Conditioners-Portable-Air-Conditioners/N-5yc1vZc4m4 https://www.homedepot.com/b/Heating-Venting-Cooling-Air-Cond...
- Faark 7y ago
  Those single hose ones are a bit idiotic. They take air from around them (i.e. the room air they just cooled) to transfer heat into and move out. That will then replaced by air from the outside, transporting new heat inside. Still better than nothing, and cheaper to buy / easier to use, but I'd hope this is one of those kind of tech we'll see replaced by something better rather soon-ish.
  - tmikaeld 7y ago
    There are two hose units that fixes this problem but they are rare and much more expensive, I 3D printed a set to the back inlet of my single hose one to fix this issue. Works wonders, now hot air are forced out instead of drawn in.