6 ms·

I've noticed it's very common for VR marketing material to show young children using the devices. Is stuffing a headset onto your kid going to be the new 'give

I've noticed it's very common for VR marketing material to show young children using the devices. Is stuffing a headset onto your kid going to be the new 'give them a tablet to shut them up' in the future? going to have some very interesting repercussions.

gatherhunterer 7y ago
Advertising always shows an exaggerated presence of young children. People like things that are cute and associate positive attitudes with them. I've seen real estate stock photos of offices with people holding toddlers and sometimes businesses like local insurance companies will advertise with just a giant picture of a baby's face; it's the kind of thing you see on bus benches and billboards.
- granshaw 7y ago
  For the millennial generation, dogs are actually the new kids in advertising - but you can't strap a VR headset onto a dog
  - scottlegrand2 7y ago
    Sez you... https://youtu.be/ZqCOeECBfR8 https://youtu.be/ZqCOeECBfR8
  - wnevets 7y ago
    > but you can't strap a VR headset onto a dog I think that means you just haven't tried hard enough. I know for a fact an advert of a dog with a vr set strapped on would get my attention
    - Insanity 7y ago
      It would be a humourous / memorable advertisement of done well. I can even imagine the tagline: "So easy everyone in the family can use it".
  - echelon 7y ago
    I was going to say, kids are a huge turn off. I run the hell away from any products with kids in their advertisements. Meanwhile I pay for a membership to a dog park with alcohol and social events : https://fetchparkatl.com https://fetchparkatl.com My attitude towards having children may change one day, but it's just not the world we're living in right now.
    - wruza 7y ago
      Having (and loving) kids counts as default and when you don’t, you’re at least strange or your social integrity can be denied. Sadly, people went a long road to accept all sorts of sexualities, race equality, et cetera (minorities never were a trigger for me from the start), but still put ‘defaultness’ on pedestal. One with no kids can more likely get fired, their desires sacrificed, and so on in otherwise equal conditions. It feels like people did not just erase the border, but drew yet another which now encompasses a slightly bigger circle. We are still outside and this is barely going to change, since those who have kids seem to change on a psychological level and cannot think the other way.
      - mirimir 7y ago
        > ... those who have kids seem to change on a psychological level and cannot think the other way. They do. It's like a switch gets flipped. Or like an ~instant ~unkickable addiction.
        inawarminister 7y ago
        Well, it's how our species survive the 2 millions years so far. You can't quite transcend biology just yet...
        mirimir 7y ago
        Well, you can just not have kids. Then you don't flip into parenting mode. That was largely intentional for me. Although a couple wives were pretty persuasive. And I've been propositioned for sperm a few times. By women who liked my style, but could see that I'd make a shitty parent.
  - dymk 7y ago
    The landing page has an illustration of the Firefox fox with a VR headset on, which is almost there
brink 7y ago
I doubt it. Most don't have nearly the stamina for a VR headset as they do for a regular screen.
- magashna 7y ago
  Even as an adult, 30-60 minutes is about all I can physically take, no matter how engrossed in the game/movie/etc. I am.
  - cr0sh 7y ago
    How much of this fatigue for you is with your eyes? How much is it with your head/neck? I just wonder, because even when they "set" the focus of these HMDs to "infinity", your eyes are still technically only looking at a screen at a fixed distance, mere inches away. Everything I have read about so-called "simulator sickness" and other maladies in HMDs have said that eye fatigue results from this "fixed focus" issue. It doesn't cause as much issue for pilots training in simulators, because the actual screen being projected on is several feet away from their eyes, allowing them to become more naturally focused toward "infinity" (parallel). I also wonder about the head and neck areas and fatigue. Most of the HMDs - while lightweight compared to systems of the 1990s - still seem like they have a lot of "nose weight", and aren't balanced on the head. Proper balance (fore/aft and laterally) is crucial to long-term use with lower fatigue, even with a light weight HMD. Also, the more weight that rests on the bridge of the nose, the worse the amount of fatigue. Much of this knowledge is based on research that was done in the 1990s and earlier, both with those early HMD systems, and other earlier simulator systems. I'm continually surprised that current commercial offerings seems to either be unaware of such research, or that they ignore it for the sake of marketing (distributing the weight on the head results in a more "helmet like" HMD, which probably isn't as saleable to the public; ultimately, the public probably would like to see something as lightweight and wearable like a pair of sunglasses, but current display and optics technology isn't there yet - if it ever will be).
    - freeone3000 7y ago
      For me, I personally feel enclosed and slightly seasick. I don't think it's a weight issue, but something to do with the inherencies of the system. I can stand a hololens longer than a Vive, for instance.
tantalor 7y ago
In my experience kids younger than 7 don't do well in VR. Part of that is using the game controller blind, and having small hands as well. A controller designed for younger kids might help.
- chime 7y ago
  > In my experience kids younger than 7 don't do well in VR. I know anecdote is not data but my 4yr old loves feeding his dinosaur in Oculus Quest 'Bogo' game. I limit his VR time to about 15-20 mins/week but he would love to do more if I allowed. I only use the base Quest headset straps/controller - no custom setup. He can easily press the different buttons on the controllers and move around as well as my 60yr old mom.
  - muraiki 7y ago
    I had heard that there are concerns about children using VR and how it could affect their development. The Oculus Health and Safety Guide says: > This product should not be used by children under the age of 13. Adults should monitor children (age 13 and older) who are using or have used the Headset for any of the symptoms described below, and should limit the time children spend using the Headset and ensure they take breaks during use. Prolonged use should be avoided, as this could negatively impact hand-eye coordination, balance, and multi-tasking ability. Adults should monitor children closely during and after use of the headset for any decrease in these abilities. https://scontent.oculuscdn.com/v/t64.5771-25/12331258_477090399380518_8145083002129481728_n.pdf?_nc_cat=100&_nc_oc=AQk8jXfxUmF8Hs_iWTvDT-tD5-87BmRobHkpCOa55Git6yT7fUWvpCsf5i3XnDPtQCs&_nc_ht=scontent.oculuscdn.com&oh=829ffc3f9542d32801e2f2329ef7b2ca&oe=5D744ADB https://scontent.oculuscdn.com/v/t64.5771-25/12331258_477090...
    - seanmcdirmid 7y ago
      There is nothing shown about this (who would approve that controlled study?), just lots of suspicions (as usual). Screen time in general is bad for kids’ developing eyes, however.
djsumdog 7y ago
Have you read Ready Player One?
- Quekid5 7y ago
  Do you find science fiction to be a good predictor for the near future?
  - lucb1e 7y ago
    If you think sci-fi is not a good predictor for the near future, just post it as a statement, not a rhetorical question. I agree with you, though, that RPO is not meant to be realistic in any way and a bad example, but the way you generalized it to all of sci-fi makes it also not very helpful. Try The Martian from Andy Weir, or some of Daniel Suarez' books like Kill Decision. There is some scary realistic sci-fi out there.
    - Quekid5 7y ago
      I haven't read Kill Decision, but I have read The Martian, so I'll answer in that vein. I don't think The Martian is realistic, or even a good predictor of anything. Now, there may be an expedition to Mars in future, but AFAICT there's really no good reasoning for it. What's your argument for an expedition to Mars? EDIT: I just wanted to add: You and I -- humans that we are -- only remember the hits, i.e. the predictions that turned out to be true. There are a lot or predictions (sci fi novels, etc.) that turn out to not be true and are thus forgotten. QED
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
      - lucb1e 7y ago
        > What's your argument for an expedition to Mars? You seem to have missed the point of my comment completely. Your takeaway from my saying "just post it as a statement, not a rhetorical question" and "the way you generalized it to all of sci-fi makes it also not very helpful" (for which the books were supporting examples) is to ask what makes me think humanity should go to Mars? The book doesn't even argue we should or shouldn't go to Mars, but it contains a ton of research into how these missions could work and may actually (contrary to your generalization) be a realistic representation. As for survivorship bias, sure, I can think of a million sci-fi books that are unrealistic. I never made the argument all sci-fi is good or that their authors have done research or that they are good predictors. But that most don't even try to be predictive doesn't mean some might not be a realistic enough example to relate it to the choices we make and how it might play out. RPO just isn't one of them.
cagenut 7y ago
VR is just "screen time" reaching its logical extreme conclusion. Put another way "fully addressable visual cortex". It'll get really weird when "glued to your phone" starts being literal as wearable AR stuff gets adhesive bonds.
- sebringj 7y ago
  Neuralink will be filling your visual cortex soon enough. :)
- lone_haxx0r 7y ago
  > "fully addressable visual cortex". I prefer the concept of visual cortex framebuffer.
buboard 7y ago
i hope not. long term effects of a heavy constricting belt on a still-developing cranium must be severe.
- zrobotics 7y ago
  It shouldn't be adjusted that tight though, that concern would also apply to a child wearing a maladjusted baseball cap as well. So I would suspect it's a minor concern, I would worry more about mental/cognitive effects more.
- BinaryIdiot 7y ago
  > heavy constricting belt on a still-developing cranium How tight are you making the VR headset? Whatever tightness you're using might be a bit much if you consider it "heavy constricting".
- scentoni 7y ago
  People have been doing that intentionally since prehistoric times. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_cranial_deformation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_cranial_deformation
  - buboard 7y ago
    that ... doesnt look healthy
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
seanmcdirmid 7y ago
I did not see this on firefox’s reality page. Do you have a link to the offending image?
- etatoby 7y ago
  It's on the homepage: https://mixedreality.mozilla.org/static/kid-03fadfdcdaaabce03eb0aa896e873f39.jpg https://mixedreality.mozilla.org/static/kid-03fadfdcdaaabce0...
  - seanmcdirmid 7y ago
    Ugh, still not seeing it. If I go to mixedreality.mozilla.org, that image doesn’t appear at all. I even tried requesting the desktop website and it still isn’t showing.
etatoby 7y ago
"They" don't want you to know how and why they are brainwashing your kid. When you take it off him/her to check, it will revert to some "safe" default show. </Tinfoil> </Sarcasm>
partiallypro 7y ago
I think it's because current VR isn't overly impressive to adults, but is to children.

gatherhunterer 7y ago

Advertising always shows an exaggerated presence of young children. People like things that are cute and associate positive attitudes with them. I've seen real estate stock photos of offices with people holding toddlers and sometimes businesses like local insurance companies will advertise with just a giant picture of a baby's face; it's the kind of thing you see on bus benches and billboards.

granshaw 7y ago
For the millennial generation, dogs are actually the new kids in advertising - but you can't strap a VR headset onto a dog
- scottlegrand2 7y ago
  Sez you... https://youtu.be/ZqCOeECBfR8 https://youtu.be/ZqCOeECBfR8
- wnevets 7y ago
  > but you can't strap a VR headset onto a dog I think that means you just haven't tried hard enough. I know for a fact an advert of a dog with a vr set strapped on would get my attention
  - Insanity 7y ago
    It would be a humourous / memorable advertisement of done well. I can even imagine the tagline: "So easy everyone in the family can use it".
- echelon 7y ago
  I was going to say, kids are a huge turn off. I run the hell away from any products with kids in their advertisements. Meanwhile I pay for a membership to a dog park with alcohol and social events : https://fetchparkatl.com https://fetchparkatl.com My attitude towards having children may change one day, but it's just not the world we're living in right now.
  - wruza 7y ago
    Having (and loving) kids counts as default and when you don’t, you’re at least strange or your social integrity can be denied. Sadly, people went a long road to accept all sorts of sexualities, race equality, et cetera (minorities never were a trigger for me from the start), but still put ‘defaultness’ on pedestal. One with no kids can more likely get fired, their desires sacrificed, and so on in otherwise equal conditions. It feels like people did not just erase the border, but drew yet another which now encompasses a slightly bigger circle. We are still outside and this is barely going to change, since those who have kids seem to change on a psychological level and cannot think the other way.
    - mirimir 7y ago
      > ... those who have kids seem to change on a psychological level and cannot think the other way. They do. It's like a switch gets flipped. Or like an ~instant ~unkickable addiction.
      - inawarminister 7y ago
        Well, it's how our species survive the 2 millions years so far. You can't quite transcend biology just yet...
        mirimir 7y ago
        Well, you can just not have kids. Then you don't flip into parenting mode. That was largely intentional for me. Although a couple wives were pretty persuasive. And I've been propositioned for sperm a few times. By women who liked my style, but could see that I'd make a shitty parent.
- dymk 7y ago
  The landing page has an illustration of the Firefox fox with a VR headset on, which is almost there

brink 7y ago

I doubt it. Most don't have nearly the stamina for a VR headset as they do for a regular screen.

magashna 7y ago
Even as an adult, 30-60 minutes is about all I can physically take, no matter how engrossed in the game/movie/etc. I am.
- cr0sh 7y ago
  How much of this fatigue for you is with your eyes? How much is it with your head/neck? I just wonder, because even when they "set" the focus of these HMDs to "infinity", your eyes are still technically only looking at a screen at a fixed distance, mere inches away. Everything I have read about so-called "simulator sickness" and other maladies in HMDs have said that eye fatigue results from this "fixed focus" issue. It doesn't cause as much issue for pilots training in simulators, because the actual screen being projected on is several feet away from their eyes, allowing them to become more naturally focused toward "infinity" (parallel). I also wonder about the head and neck areas and fatigue. Most of the HMDs - while lightweight compared to systems of the 1990s - still seem like they have a lot of "nose weight", and aren't balanced on the head. Proper balance (fore/aft and laterally) is crucial to long-term use with lower fatigue, even with a light weight HMD. Also, the more weight that rests on the bridge of the nose, the worse the amount of fatigue. Much of this knowledge is based on research that was done in the 1990s and earlier, both with those early HMD systems, and other earlier simulator systems. I'm continually surprised that current commercial offerings seems to either be unaware of such research, or that they ignore it for the sake of marketing (distributing the weight on the head results in a more "helmet like" HMD, which probably isn't as saleable to the public; ultimately, the public probably would like to see something as lightweight and wearable like a pair of sunglasses, but current display and optics technology isn't there yet - if it ever will be).
  - freeone3000 7y ago
    For me, I personally feel enclosed and slightly seasick. I don't think it's a weight issue, but something to do with the inherencies of the system. I can stand a hololens longer than a Vive, for instance.

tantalor 7y ago

In my experience kids younger than 7 don't do well in VR. Part of that is using the game controller blind, and having small hands as well. A controller designed for younger kids might help.

chime 7y ago
> In my experience kids younger than 7 don't do well in VR. I know anecdote is not data but my 4yr old loves feeding his dinosaur in Oculus Quest 'Bogo' game. I limit his VR time to about 15-20 mins/week but he would love to do more if I allowed. I only use the base Quest headset straps/controller - no custom setup. He can easily press the different buttons on the controllers and move around as well as my 60yr old mom.
- muraiki 7y ago
  I had heard that there are concerns about children using VR and how it could affect their development. The Oculus Health and Safety Guide says: > This product should not be used by children under the age of 13. Adults should monitor children (age 13 and older) who are using or have used the Headset for any of the symptoms described below, and should limit the time children spend using the Headset and ensure they take breaks during use. Prolonged use should be avoided, as this could negatively impact hand-eye coordination, balance, and multi-tasking ability. Adults should monitor children closely during and after use of the headset for any decrease in these abilities. https://scontent.oculuscdn.com/v/t64.5771-25/12331258_477090399380518_8145083002129481728_n.pdf?_nc_cat=100&_nc_oc=AQk8jXfxUmF8Hs_iWTvDT-tD5-87BmRobHkpCOa55Git6yT7fUWvpCsf5i3XnDPtQCs&_nc_ht=scontent.oculuscdn.com&oh=829ffc3f9542d32801e2f2329ef7b2ca&oe=5D744ADB https://scontent.oculuscdn.com/v/t64.5771-25/12331258_477090...
  - seanmcdirmid 7y ago
    There is nothing shown about this (who would approve that controlled study?), just lots of suspicions (as usual). Screen time in general is bad for kids’ developing eyes, however.

djsumdog 7y ago

Have you read Ready Player One?

Quekid5 7y ago
Do you find science fiction to be a good predictor for the near future?
- lucb1e 7y ago
  If you think sci-fi is not a good predictor for the near future, just post it as a statement, not a rhetorical question. I agree with you, though, that RPO is not meant to be realistic in any way and a bad example, but the way you generalized it to all of sci-fi makes it also not very helpful. Try The Martian from Andy Weir, or some of Daniel Suarez' books like Kill Decision. There is some scary realistic sci-fi out there.
  - Quekid5 7y ago
    I haven't read Kill Decision, but I have read The Martian, so I'll answer in that vein. I don't think The Martian is realistic, or even a good predictor of anything. Now, there may be an expedition to Mars in future, but AFAICT there's really no good reasoning for it. What's your argument for an expedition to Mars? EDIT: I just wanted to add: You and I -- humans that we are -- only remember the hits, i.e. the predictions that turned out to be true. There are a lot or predictions (sci fi novels, etc.) that turn out to not be true and are thus forgotten. QED
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - lucb1e 7y ago
      > What's your argument for an expedition to Mars? You seem to have missed the point of my comment completely. Your takeaway from my saying "just post it as a statement, not a rhetorical question" and "the way you generalized it to all of sci-fi makes it also not very helpful" (for which the books were supporting examples) is to ask what makes me think humanity should go to Mars? The book doesn't even argue we should or shouldn't go to Mars, but it contains a ton of research into how these missions could work and may actually (contrary to your generalization) be a realistic representation. As for survivorship bias, sure, I can think of a million sci-fi books that are unrealistic. I never made the argument all sci-fi is good or that their authors have done research or that they are good predictors. But that most don't even try to be predictive doesn't mean some might not be a realistic enough example to relate it to the choices we make and how it might play out. RPO just isn't one of them.

cagenut 7y ago

VR is just "screen time" reaching its logical extreme conclusion. Put another way "fully addressable visual cortex". It'll get really weird when "glued to your phone" starts being literal as wearable AR stuff gets adhesive bonds.

sebringj 7y ago
Neuralink will be filling your visual cortex soon enough. :)
lone_haxx0r 7y ago
> "fully addressable visual cortex". I prefer the concept of visual cortex framebuffer.

buboard 7y ago

i hope not. long term effects of a heavy constricting belt on a still-developing cranium must be severe.

zrobotics 7y ago
It shouldn't be adjusted that tight though, that concern would also apply to a child wearing a maladjusted baseball cap as well. So I would suspect it's a minor concern, I would worry more about mental/cognitive effects more.
BinaryIdiot 7y ago
> heavy constricting belt on a still-developing cranium How tight are you making the VR headset? Whatever tightness you're using might be a bit much if you consider it "heavy constricting".
scentoni 7y ago
People have been doing that intentionally since prehistoric times. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_cranial_deformation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_cranial_deformation
- buboard 7y ago
  that ... doesnt look healthy

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

seanmcdirmid 7y ago

I did not see this on firefox’s reality page. Do you have a link to the offending image?

etatoby 7y ago
It's on the homepage: https://mixedreality.mozilla.org/static/kid-03fadfdcdaaabce03eb0aa896e873f39.jpg https://mixedreality.mozilla.org/static/kid-03fadfdcdaaabce0...
- seanmcdirmid 7y ago
  Ugh, still not seeing it. If I go to mixedreality.mozilla.org, that image doesn’t appear at all. I even tried requesting the desktop website and it still isn’t showing.

etatoby 7y ago

"They" don't want you to know how and why they are brainwashing your kid. When you take it off him/her to check, it will revert to some "safe" default show. </Tinfoil> </Sarcasm>

partiallypro 7y ago

I think it's because current VR isn't overly impressive to adults, but is to children.