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Hi HN, This is a work-in-progress project inspired by this HN comment[0]. [0]: HN comment -(https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19746440 https://news.ycombina

Hi HN, This is a work-in-progress project inspired by this HN comment[0]. [0]: HN comment -(https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19746440 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19746440)

phtrivier 7y ago
Referenced commentator here: I'm totaly new to Rust, but I'll definitely check it out !
jacobush 7y ago
Which ones of the sub-debates did you focus on solving?
- ivanceras 7y ago
  The holy grail part.
  - nixpulvis 7y ago
    Too bad you still need to pay $$$ to get on to the App Store.
  - Dowwie 7y ago
    That's the spirit! :)
Razengan 7y ago
In that linked comment: > 2.1) I want to ship something that looks the same on Windows / Linux / MacOS As a user: No no no, please, no. I want apps to fit the look, feel, and idioms of the OS I'm currently in, not "look the same" on every OS. For example. macOS in particular has many builtin features that work in all apps with standard controls. Like text-to-speech, or converting selected text into all-caps, lowercase, or capitalized. Or custom services/scripts built in Automator. I may not always use these little tricks all the time, but when they fail to work in some app, it immediately feels lower quality, suspicious, and/or suggests a lazy developer. It's not pleasant to use something that ignores the special features of a platform in favor of the lowest common denominator.
- electrograv 7y ago
  Personally, I find that most modern UIs that explicitly do not conform to an OS’s opinionated UI design style (for example: the majority of web stack UIs[1]), are often better in almost every way vs apps that do conform to OS style! When I’m using an advanced UI to do some specialized task, I generally appreciate when the UI patterns I learn on one OS transfer seamlessly to any other device and OS I may use to do the same task. But I especially appreciate that apps can choose the UI style and design to suit the task at hand, rather than some notion of conforming to OS style patterns that may or may not work in its favor. For example, I prefer that Visual Studio Code looks the same on all platforms, because I find its UI to be superior to the default style of any OS! What do you think about these thoughts? Am I alone in preferring custom UIs per app, with consistent app experience across devices? [1] For the sake of this argument, I’m not counting differences in runtime performance and efficiency, since that’s a whole other topic, and one theoretically orthogonal to the UI design.
  - Razengan 7y ago
    > Am I alone in preferring custom UIs per app Custom UIs by themselves are not the culprit. Apple itself is "guilty" of that, using special controls and styles for their own apps (including even the new Reminders in Catalina.) But if an app on macOS puts a close button in the upper-right corner of a window or panel (like Windows does) instead of the upper-left, for example, or when an iOS app uses the Android sharing icon, I feel annoyed. A worse and more practical example is when an app is missing some of the global system features I described in my previous comment, like common text field options (spelling, transformations, dictionary lookup etc.) missing from an Electron-based chat app and so on.
  - ridiculous_fish 7y ago
    1. The reason for platform UI conventions is so users can transfer knowledge between apps. Some specialized apps may want to establish their own conventions, because they are aimed at experts who will be investing a lot of time in the app. Most apps aren't in that category. 2. HTML and JS make sucky UIs regardless of how much "work pools", because the underlying APIs are limited and incomplete. For example, scrolling: there is no native support for large tables in HTML, so apps either do some janky faulting in like infinite scroll, or reimplement scrolling entirely. Cut/copy/paste/undo is another example, along with keyboard navigation in general.

Hi HN, This is a work-in-progress project inspired by this HN comment[0]. [0]: HN comment -(https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19746440 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19746440)

phtrivier 7y ago

Referenced commentator here: I'm totaly new to Rust, but I'll definitely check it out !

jacobush 7y ago

Which ones of the sub-debates did you focus on solving?

ivanceras 7y ago
The holy grail part.
- nixpulvis 7y ago
  Too bad you still need to pay $$$ to get on to the App Store.
- Dowwie 7y ago
  That's the spirit! :)

Razengan 7y ago

In that linked comment: > 2.1) I want to ship something that looks the same on Windows / Linux / MacOS As a user: No no no, please, no. I want apps to fit the look, feel, and idioms of the OS I'm currently in, not "look the same" on every OS. For example. macOS in particular has many builtin features that work in all apps with standard controls. Like text-to-speech, or converting selected text into all-caps, lowercase, or capitalized. Or custom services/scripts built in Automator. I may not always use these little tricks all the time, but when they fail to work in some app, it immediately feels lower quality, suspicious, and/or suggests a lazy developer. It's not pleasant to use something that ignores the special features of a platform in favor of the lowest common denominator.

electrograv 7y ago
Personally, I find that most modern UIs that explicitly do not conform to an OS’s opinionated UI design style (for example: the majority of web stack UIs[1]), are often better in almost every way vs apps that do conform to OS style! When I’m using an advanced UI to do some specialized task, I generally appreciate when the UI patterns I learn on one OS transfer seamlessly to any other device and OS I may use to do the same task. But I especially appreciate that apps can choose the UI style and design to suit the task at hand, rather than some notion of conforming to OS style patterns that may or may not work in its favor. For example, I prefer that Visual Studio Code looks the same on all platforms, because I find its UI to be superior to the default style of any OS! What do you think about these thoughts? Am I alone in preferring custom UIs per app, with consistent app experience across devices? [1] For the sake of this argument, I’m not counting differences in runtime performance and efficiency, since that’s a whole other topic, and one theoretically orthogonal to the UI design.
- Razengan 7y ago
  > Am I alone in preferring custom UIs per app Custom UIs by themselves are not the culprit. Apple itself is "guilty" of that, using special controls and styles for their own apps (including even the new Reminders in Catalina.) But if an app on macOS puts a close button in the upper-right corner of a window or panel (like Windows does) instead of the upper-left, for example, or when an iOS app uses the Android sharing icon, I feel annoyed. A worse and more practical example is when an app is missing some of the global system features I described in my previous comment, like common text field options (spelling, transformations, dictionary lookup etc.) missing from an Electron-based chat app and so on.
- ridiculous_fish 7y ago
  1. The reason for platform UI conventions is so users can transfer knowledge between apps. Some specialized apps may want to establish their own conventions, because they are aimed at experts who will be investing a lot of time in the app. Most apps aren't in that category. 2. HTML and JS make sucky UIs regardless of how much "work pools", because the underlying APIs are limited and incomplete. For example, scrolling: there is no native support for large tables in HTML, so apps either do some janky faulting in like infinite scroll, or reimplement scrolling entirely. Cut/copy/paste/undo is another example, along with keyboard navigation in general.