4 ms·

The government doesn't need the authority and power, it already has it, Facebook could be turned off tomorrow if the government decided it wanted to do so. What

by throwaway2048 7y ago

The government doesn't need the authority and power, it already has it, Facebook could be turned off tomorrow if the government decided it wanted to do so. What it needs is a plan and motivation to do so. He can provide both in spades.

NeoBasilisk 7y ago
If you are down-voting this, you should probably take a hard look at your thought processes.
- smt88 7y ago
  OK, even though this is a dismissive, condescending, and content-free comment, I'll bite: What are some $200B+, publicly-traded companies that the government has "turned off"? Facebook has lots of qualities that make it impossible to kill on a whim: - Peter Thiel is influential in the current admin and also a FB investor - Many companies are spending millions a day on Facebook ads and may have pre-paid - Facebook login is a primary authentication scheme for many websites/apps (like Tinder) - Billions of irreplaceable photos are warehoused in Facebook You and GP are making the bolder claim by far, so the burden is on you to provide evidence.
  - komali2 7y ago
    Yea, I mean, it's extremely unlikely that Facebook will be "switched off." But, I think there are some possibilities that range from "extremely improbable" and "illegal / probably illegal" to merely "improbable." 1. Current admin declares "fake news" to be a national emergency. Demands Facebook turn over all keys to all databases. Democrats in Congress cry foul, Republicans are "concerned," until Facebook doesn't turn over the keys. Justice system gets involved, and then the debate turns from "extraordinary government overreach into free speech and privacy" into one about how a corporate is spitting in the face of American sovereignty and security, and "activist" judges, etc. Probable outcome: nothing happens because a Federal Judge in Hawaii says no. Possible Outcome: Facebook gets scared and hands over their data, tanking trust and usage. 2. Current admin orders a massive investigation into Facebook ties with Russia, throws around accusations like "spycraft" and "treason." As servers and documents are seized, Twitter et al step up recruitment and snipe staff terrified of FBI agents constantly roaming around. Possible outcomes: Facebook quality drops significantly as they lose valuable staff; Facebook service gets disrupted and usage plummits as servers get taken at random, or entirely; Facebook gets a big, fat, "This Website has been serving Illegal Content" notices with the US seal on it. 3. Current admin uses social media to strongly promote the idea that Facebook is working against American interests. Pushes on Silicon Valley location, "presidential harassment," censorship of conservatives, etc. Starts a smear war. Facebook afraid to push back and thus "confirm" propaganda. Possible outcomes: Usage drops from a boycott (oh well?); radicalized militia/crazies start bombing / shooting up Facebook offices, Facebook forced to shut down US operations out of security concerns / staff flee en masse out of fear. I'm not claiming any of these have even more than a 20% chance of happening, it's just fun for me to explore the possibilities.
    - ryacko 7y ago
      Zoom out, you’re looking too close.
      - komali2 7y ago
        What does this mean
  - adventured 7y ago
    > What are some $200B+, publicly-traded companies that the government has "turned off"? Forget $200b. What are some legitimate $1b+ companies that the government has turned off like a switch? Essentially it has never happened before in US history, because it's not a power that the government actually possesses. If your whole business consists of running a massive medicare fraud, or you're a ponzi scheme shell with no assets, then sure the government might raid you and you instantly become insolvent and non-operational. Cases of that sort are about the only time such a switch is thrown (and even then, there is a well defined legal process involved).
  - jacquesm 7y ago
    > What are some $200B+, publicly-traded companies that the government has "turned off"? Does the break-up of Bell count? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breakup_of_the_Bell_System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breakup_of_the_Bell_System
    - crumpets 7y ago
      No? Splitting into multiple companies and keeping shareholders paid isn't turning it off.
    - pessimizer 7y ago
      Or Prohibition?
      - smt88 7y ago
        Companies had time to plan for the change in the law and pivot to other industries. I'm sure some of them just went underground, though. Facebook can't go underground because most of their customers are businesses that need govt-sanctioned legitimacy and could be forced to stop buying ads from them (not the mention the challenges of reassembling their personnel/infra outside US control). https://www.forbes.com/sites/katevinton/2015/11/04/how-breweries-like-coors-yuengling-and-anheuser-busch-survived-prohibition/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/katevinton/2015/11/04/how-brewe...
- kmlx 7y ago
  unfortunately for you, we are not yet living in a dictatorship. so no, the government can’t simply “turn it off”.
  - vageli 7y ago
    > unfortunately for you, we are not yet living in a dictatorship. so no, the government can’t simply “turn it off”. Why do we need to be in a dictatorship for the government to be able to arbitrarily seize assets? Civil forfeiture is real. Executive order 6102 is real. The government has the tools at their disposal to outlaw anything that is not explicitly protected in the Constitution (and even that too can be amended through the operation of law).
    - eitland 7y ago
      Will take more than a day anyway though.
- dang 7y ago
  Could you please read the site guidelines and follow them when posting here? https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
thwythwy 7y ago
If Facebook was turned off tomorrow, they'd be at the steps of the Supreme Court faster than you can say "due process." The FTC could barely enforce baseline info security reqs without the Third Circuit knocking that agency on its backside. With a pro-business SCOTUS and the type of leverage this company has on every Senate and House race in America, I really don't think you're using the word "power" the same way I was if you believe the government has enough to make this happen.
- gpm 7y ago
  For what it's worth - The supreme court is part of the government - The government is empowered to change the constitution, including disbanding the supreme court. - The vast majority of the time Congress passing an explicit law instead of an agency making some rules would satisfy the existing supreme court with the existing constitution anyways.

NeoBasilisk 7y ago

If you are down-voting this, you should probably take a hard look at your thought processes.

smt88 7y ago
OK, even though this is a dismissive, condescending, and content-free comment, I'll bite: What are some $200B+, publicly-traded companies that the government has "turned off"? Facebook has lots of qualities that make it impossible to kill on a whim: - Peter Thiel is influential in the current admin and also a FB investor - Many companies are spending millions a day on Facebook ads and may have pre-paid - Facebook login is a primary authentication scheme for many websites/apps (like Tinder) - Billions of irreplaceable photos are warehoused in Facebook You and GP are making the bolder claim by far, so the burden is on you to provide evidence.
- komali2 7y ago
  Yea, I mean, it's extremely unlikely that Facebook will be "switched off." But, I think there are some possibilities that range from "extremely improbable" and "illegal / probably illegal" to merely "improbable." 1. Current admin declares "fake news" to be a national emergency. Demands Facebook turn over all keys to all databases. Democrats in Congress cry foul, Republicans are "concerned," until Facebook doesn't turn over the keys. Justice system gets involved, and then the debate turns from "extraordinary government overreach into free speech and privacy" into one about how a corporate is spitting in the face of American sovereignty and security, and "activist" judges, etc. Probable outcome: nothing happens because a Federal Judge in Hawaii says no. Possible Outcome: Facebook gets scared and hands over their data, tanking trust and usage. 2. Current admin orders a massive investigation into Facebook ties with Russia, throws around accusations like "spycraft" and "treason." As servers and documents are seized, Twitter et al step up recruitment and snipe staff terrified of FBI agents constantly roaming around. Possible outcomes: Facebook quality drops significantly as they lose valuable staff; Facebook service gets disrupted and usage plummits as servers get taken at random, or entirely; Facebook gets a big, fat, "This Website has been serving Illegal Content" notices with the US seal on it. 3. Current admin uses social media to strongly promote the idea that Facebook is working against American interests. Pushes on Silicon Valley location, "presidential harassment," censorship of conservatives, etc. Starts a smear war. Facebook afraid to push back and thus "confirm" propaganda. Possible outcomes: Usage drops from a boycott (oh well?); radicalized militia/crazies start bombing / shooting up Facebook offices, Facebook forced to shut down US operations out of security concerns / staff flee en masse out of fear. I'm not claiming any of these have even more than a 20% chance of happening, it's just fun for me to explore the possibilities.
  - ryacko 7y ago
    Zoom out, you’re looking too close.
    - komali2 7y ago
      What does this mean
- adventured 7y ago
  > What are some $200B+, publicly-traded companies that the government has "turned off"? Forget $200b. What are some legitimate $1b+ companies that the government has turned off like a switch? Essentially it has never happened before in US history, because it's not a power that the government actually possesses. If your whole business consists of running a massive medicare fraud, or you're a ponzi scheme shell with no assets, then sure the government might raid you and you instantly become insolvent and non-operational. Cases of that sort are about the only time such a switch is thrown (and even then, there is a well defined legal process involved).
- jacquesm 7y ago
  > What are some $200B+, publicly-traded companies that the government has "turned off"? Does the break-up of Bell count? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breakup_of_the_Bell_System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breakup_of_the_Bell_System
  - crumpets 7y ago
    No? Splitting into multiple companies and keeping shareholders paid isn't turning it off.
  - pessimizer 7y ago
    Or Prohibition?
    - smt88 7y ago
      Companies had time to plan for the change in the law and pivot to other industries. I'm sure some of them just went underground, though. Facebook can't go underground because most of their customers are businesses that need govt-sanctioned legitimacy and could be forced to stop buying ads from them (not the mention the challenges of reassembling their personnel/infra outside US control). https://www.forbes.com/sites/katevinton/2015/11/04/how-breweries-like-coors-yuengling-and-anheuser-busch-survived-prohibition/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/katevinton/2015/11/04/how-brewe...
kmlx 7y ago
unfortunately for you, we are not yet living in a dictatorship. so no, the government can’t simply “turn it off”.
- vageli 7y ago
  > unfortunately for you, we are not yet living in a dictatorship. so no, the government can’t simply “turn it off”. Why do we need to be in a dictatorship for the government to be able to arbitrarily seize assets? Civil forfeiture is real. Executive order 6102 is real. The government has the tools at their disposal to outlaw anything that is not explicitly protected in the Constitution (and even that too can be amended through the operation of law).
  - eitland 7y ago
    Will take more than a day anyway though.
dang 7y ago
Could you please read the site guidelines and follow them when posting here? https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

thwythwy 7y ago

If Facebook was turned off tomorrow, they'd be at the steps of the Supreme Court faster than you can say "due process." The FTC could barely enforce baseline info security reqs without the Third Circuit knocking that agency on its backside. With a pro-business SCOTUS and the type of leverage this company has on every Senate and House race in America, I really don't think you're using the word "power" the same way I was if you believe the government has enough to make this happen.

gpm 7y ago
For what it's worth - The supreme court is part of the government - The government is empowered to change the constitution, including disbanding the supreme court. - The vast majority of the time Congress passing an explicit law instead of an agency making some rules would satisfy the existing supreme court with the existing constitution anyways.