15 ms·

SWATters Target Dozens of Journalists

159 points by panarky 7y ago

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
ccleft 7y ago
This is the site in question FYI doxbinjs77uawbbl.onion Everyone is talking about it without seeing it for themselves
walshemj 7y ago
I know some people who are on a similar list run by the far right in the UK. edited for grammar all happy now.
- monksy 7y ago
  Also, a list in the US created to target the right/extremists: https://www.elon.edu/E-Net/Article/166381 https://www.elon.edu/E-Net/Article/166381
  - walshemj 7y ago
    Interesting that I got down voted for saying that I know people on a list like that in the UK.
    - dmix 7y ago
      I believe you were downvoted because your comment was both grammatically incorrect ("I know some people who are a similar list") and didn't provide any source/substance. Additionally, talking about downvoting is a quick way to get downvoted.
  - anigbrowl 7y ago
    Where's the targeting part? Megan Squire is not int eh habit of SWATting people, nor has anyone promoted using her research as such.
    - monksy 7y ago
      She's creating a database of people labeled in that category. She's playing the "well I didn't say to go harass these people.. but here's a database of them"
      - anigbrowl 7y ago
        I'm familiar with her database. She's not doxing them but pointing out the facts of their public relationships.
npiht 7y ago
This is bold coming from someone who doxxes people publicly. https://hacked.wtf/2019/04/26/dear-brian-krebs-no-more-doxxing-as-a-result-of-a-disagreement-please/ https://hacked.wtf/2019/04/26/dear-brian-krebs-no-more-doxxi...
- tptacek 7y ago
  Exactly what obligation does Brian Krebs have to maintain the anonymity of random people on the Internet?
  - itsgrimetime 7y ago
    I'm going to interpret this as charitably as possible: Are you attempting to bring attention to the fact that doxxing is rarely prosecuted, even though it's illegal and there's boatloads of evidence that it is in fact a form of violence? This is the only way I can imagine this question being raised that doesn't assume you're trolling.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - tptacek 7y ago
      No. I am confused by the conviction Twitter and message board people have that pseudonymous people are entitled to the protection of their true identities from strangers, who learn those identities from open sources.
      - UnFleshedOne 7y ago
        Fair enough. But doxxers should be subject to the same level of prosecution as people who scope out marks for robbery for example. I'm not familiar with laws in that case, but if there is some level of "conspiracy to commit crime" you can get for telling thieves about that mark, then doxxers should be also getting that. I don't expect strangers to protect information about just how much cash I have in my wallet that they found out by standing behind me in checkout line. But I surely want them nailed if they purposefully broadcast that and a mugger overhears and robs me.
tomlock 7y ago
I think at this point it's important to acknowledge and realise that america has a right wing extremist problem. Will the free speech crowd indict radicals who threaten journalists?
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- mcantelon 7y ago
  And a left wing extremist problem, given the recent Antifa beating of journalist Andy Ngo and, fortunately unsuccessful, attempt by Antifa to ignite a large propane tank next to a migrant center.
  - tomlock 7y ago
    Right wing extremists have killed more people in the last ten years than any other political group.
    - stcredzero 7y ago
      This is true, though for awhile in the past few years, the Far Left was catching up, though the Far Right surged ahead in this year. However, in terms of numbers of events of violence, intimidation, and minor assault, the Far Left has been quite busy. The left leaning media just shows an extreme bias in discussing these events. All of that stuff is bad, and bad for us.
      - kybernetikos 7y ago
        > This is true, though for awhile in the past few years, the Far Left was catching up, though the Far Right surged ahead in this year. According to https://www.start.umd.edu/pubs/START_IdeologicalMotivationsOfTerrorismInUS_Nov2017.pdf https://www.start.umd.edu/pubs/START_IdeologicalMotivationsO... there have been no deaths from left wing terrorism in the USA for nearly 40 years. You can read the same information here: https://www.gao.gov/assets/690/683984.pdf https://www.gao.gov/assets/690/683984.pdf > Specifically, tables 1 and 2 show a description, date, location and number of victim fatalities for each far right [106] and radical Islamist [119] attack between September 12, 2001 and December 31, 2016. During this period, no persons in the United States were killed in attacks carried out by persons believed to be motivated by extremist environmental beliefs, extremist “animal liberation”beliefs, or extremist far left beliefs.
donatj 7y ago
The heart of the problem is that SWAT-ing is possible. You shouldn't be able to make an anonymous phone call and have the police bust down someone else's door guns drawn. An unverified phone call alone should not amount to probable cause. That's not civilization.
- mcantelon 7y ago
  Might take a lot of lawsuits to get them to verify info before acting on it.
  - AmericanChopper 7y ago
    Caller: “hi 911, I’m being held hostage by an armed and violent individual at this address, this is the only opportunity I’ve had to use a phone” 911 call taker: “Thanks for your report. We’ll work on verifying this and might be able to get out there in 2-3 weeks.”
    - Mirioron 7y ago
      Or maybe the police can still go check, but just not do it guns blazing? They can ring the door bell and ask to check around. If they're afraid of being fired upon they could even use a police robot or something.
      - TeMPOraL 7y ago
        Or even stand some distance from the door and shout "THIS IS THE POLICE, EVERYONE GET OUT WITH YOUR HANDS UP" through a bullhorn; it's going to be much less disruptive to everyone than a flashbang through the window, and the officers can still be hidden behind cover in case of actual criminals wielding guns being present.
        stordoff 7y ago
        "They've threatened to kill me the if the police show up." I don't think there can be any one-size-fits-all solution to this - each case must be assessed on its own merits.
AcerbicZero 7y ago
This could have just been an unfortunate escalation of the political tension which seems to be omnipresent, but once you drag the police into the game it becomes deadly. I suspect the idea of "counter-doxing" made sense at one time, when CNN was threatening to dox people over memes, or when someone is doxed, fired, and humiliated, because a twitter-ista thinks you've manspread too far (/s?), but none of that even remotely compares to swatting. Sending a (generally speaking) overzealous police force to a persons home after convincing the police a violent crime is underway, is on the scale between assault, and attempted murder in my opinion (and that's assuming no one actually gets hurt). Edit: There seems to be some confusion below. I'm not excusing the police of their responsibility by any means. Its important to remember the vast majority of swatting incidents end without violence, thanks almost entirely to the professionalism of the men who have just kicked down a door (or chose not to kick down the door, but knock instead) and found out that the phone call they got about a guy in his living room butchering small children is actually just a dude playing video games or whatever. Edit2: I'm a pretty libertarian fellow but if you are incapable of thinking of a scenario where you would want the police to kick in your door and storm your house with guns, then you either have no imagination, or you live in a magical fairy tale land and I'm super jealous.
- jMyles 7y ago
  I think I prefer to live in a society in which these sorts of fake calls are intentionally and randomly made - without notice or authorization of any sort - in order to continually test and verify that emergency services are functioning properly (in this case, not killing anyone based on an anonymous tip). Making a 911 call is an anonymous venture; there's no deposition or oath or penalty of perjury here. A civilized society is one in which calls made to such an endpoint (whether by a human or bot or whomever) are treated accordingly. Police need to stop killing people. Stop violating people's rights. SWAT teams have not made society better and are easily deprecated. That's the real message here.
  - dmix 7y ago
    There was absolutely no need for that cop to shoot that person who got SWAT'd either. The guy was completely surrounded by police with rifles, at a far distance, and he was obviously confused at being told multiple different commands. They are way, way too quick to pull the trigger. All 911 calls are and should be taken seriously though. Even when you misdial 911 they will sometimes even send a car out to make sure, unless you explain yourself well over the phone. So these scammer guys will always be able to get a police response, especially as long as phone calls can be spoofed to look like it's coming from "inside" the house. The only variable is how the police handle it and, of course, how many sociopaths there are who can pull it off properly without getting caught.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
jonnycomputer 7y ago
I might be wrong, but a whole bunch of heavily armed guys busting down doors in response to an anonymous phone call is not in the spirit of prioritizing de-escalation over violent resolutions. I want cops de-escalating situations, not shooting up the neighborhood, or going on high-speed chases on neighborhood streets. Now, I imagine swat teams don't like doxxing either. Sounds like a business opportunity.
- rhcom2 7y ago
  Unfortunately in our world of active shooters the thinking is now that the police should enter the situation to try to engage the shooter as fast as possible as research shows this is what saves the most lives.
  - JustSomeNobody 7y ago
    What world is that? I don’t believe that happens often enough in my world for police to come in guns blazing.
    - rhcom2 7y ago
      I'm trying to explain why de-escalation is not the preferred tactical response from the police when it comes to active shooter scenarios. I think it makes sense from a law enforcement point of view to take every threat as credible until proven otherwise. According the FBI there's been 250 between 2000-2017. https://www.fbi.gov/about/partnerships/office-of-partner-engagement/active-shooter-incidents-graphics https://www.fbi.gov/about/partnerships/office-of-partner-eng... I also think it's important to understand why the police respond like they do. It isn't arbitrary, it's statistically suppose to save lives, but SWATing is intentionally abusing that response.
      - tastroder 7y ago
        250 incidents in 17 years seems to hardly be an explanation to rule out de-escalation by default when interacting with the general population. Even in these cases, it's not like SWATting is a new phenomenon. As an alternative: Maybe invest in proper training for LEOs instead of military grade equipment, that would at least decrease the frequency of stuff like [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Wichita_swatting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Wichita_swatting
cosmodisk 7y ago
Absolutely creepy website...Went on to see what they've got there.. Randomly clicked on one of the names on the list..Some kid's photo,with all his contact details,his parents names,photos,phone numbers,etc..FFS
- dmix 7y ago
  Sheesh, imagine if they had access to Facebook's data.
4ntonius8lock 7y ago
I'm very sorry for the Journalists affected, but I have to say I'm glad it happened to them. We need high profile issues like these. It's the only way it will change. Untold thousands of regular joe's get hit with this every year. No one cares since it only happens to 'the bad guys'. When you have authoritarianism, it doesn't always go your way. That's why we should be against authoritarian tactics, such as sending armed men to break down doors and terrorize people over an anonymous phone call (I personally think we should draw the line in the sand much more on the side of freedom, but this basic level should be agreed by all) I grew up long enough ago when there was a feeling that the Western world was superior to the Iron and Bamboo curtains because these things didn't happen in America.
aaron695 7y ago
"far-right group that maintains a Deep Web database" How to set this up is a more boring than it sounds... https://doxbin.org/robots.txt https://doxbin.org/robots.txt User-agent: * Disallow: Although it's done incorrectly. site:doxbin.org (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doxbin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doxbin)

159 points by panarky 7y ago

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

ccleft 7y ago

This is the site in question FYI doxbinjs77uawbbl.onion Everyone is talking about it without seeing it for themselves

walshemj 7y ago

I know some people who are on a similar list run by the far right in the UK. edited for grammar all happy now.

monksy 7y ago
Also, a list in the US created to target the right/extremists: https://www.elon.edu/E-Net/Article/166381 https://www.elon.edu/E-Net/Article/166381
- walshemj 7y ago
  Interesting that I got down voted for saying that I know people on a list like that in the UK.
  - dmix 7y ago
    I believe you were downvoted because your comment was both grammatically incorrect ("I know some people who are a similar list") and didn't provide any source/substance. Additionally, talking about downvoting is a quick way to get downvoted.
- anigbrowl 7y ago
  Where's the targeting part? Megan Squire is not int eh habit of SWATting people, nor has anyone promoted using her research as such.
  - monksy 7y ago
    She's creating a database of people labeled in that category. She's playing the "well I didn't say to go harass these people.. but here's a database of them"
    - anigbrowl 7y ago
      I'm familiar with her database. She's not doxing them but pointing out the facts of their public relationships.

npiht 7y ago

This is bold coming from someone who doxxes people publicly. https://hacked.wtf/2019/04/26/dear-brian-krebs-no-more-doxxing-as-a-result-of-a-disagreement-please/ https://hacked.wtf/2019/04/26/dear-brian-krebs-no-more-doxxi...

tptacek 7y ago
Exactly what obligation does Brian Krebs have to maintain the anonymity of random people on the Internet?
- itsgrimetime 7y ago
  I'm going to interpret this as charitably as possible: Are you attempting to bring attention to the fact that doxxing is rarely prosecuted, even though it's illegal and there's boatloads of evidence that it is in fact a form of violence? This is the only way I can imagine this question being raised that doesn't assume you're trolling.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - tptacek 7y ago
    No. I am confused by the conviction Twitter and message board people have that pseudonymous people are entitled to the protection of their true identities from strangers, who learn those identities from open sources.
    - UnFleshedOne 7y ago
      Fair enough. But doxxers should be subject to the same level of prosecution as people who scope out marks for robbery for example. I'm not familiar with laws in that case, but if there is some level of "conspiracy to commit crime" you can get for telling thieves about that mark, then doxxers should be also getting that. I don't expect strangers to protect information about just how much cash I have in my wallet that they found out by standing behind me in checkout line. But I surely want them nailed if they purposefully broadcast that and a mugger overhears and robs me.

tomlock 7y ago

I think at this point it's important to acknowledge and realise that america has a right wing extremist problem. Will the free speech crowd indict radicals who threaten journalists?

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
mcantelon 7y ago
And a left wing extremist problem, given the recent Antifa beating of journalist Andy Ngo and, fortunately unsuccessful, attempt by Antifa to ignite a large propane tank next to a migrant center.
- tomlock 7y ago
  Right wing extremists have killed more people in the last ten years than any other political group.
  - stcredzero 7y ago
    This is true, though for awhile in the past few years, the Far Left was catching up, though the Far Right surged ahead in this year. However, in terms of numbers of events of violence, intimidation, and minor assault, the Far Left has been quite busy. The left leaning media just shows an extreme bias in discussing these events. All of that stuff is bad, and bad for us.
    - kybernetikos 7y ago
      > This is true, though for awhile in the past few years, the Far Left was catching up, though the Far Right surged ahead in this year. According to https://www.start.umd.edu/pubs/START_IdeologicalMotivationsOfTerrorismInUS_Nov2017.pdf https://www.start.umd.edu/pubs/START_IdeologicalMotivationsO... there have been no deaths from left wing terrorism in the USA for nearly 40 years. You can read the same information here: https://www.gao.gov/assets/690/683984.pdf https://www.gao.gov/assets/690/683984.pdf > Specifically, tables 1 and 2 show a description, date, location and number of victim fatalities for each far right [106] and radical Islamist [119] attack between September 12, 2001 and December 31, 2016. During this period, no persons in the United States were killed in attacks carried out by persons believed to be motivated by extremist environmental beliefs, extremist “animal liberation”beliefs, or extremist far left beliefs.

donatj 7y ago

The heart of the problem is that SWAT-ing is possible. You shouldn't be able to make an anonymous phone call and have the police bust down someone else's door guns drawn. An unverified phone call alone should not amount to probable cause. That's not civilization.

mcantelon 7y ago
Might take a lot of lawsuits to get them to verify info before acting on it.
- AmericanChopper 7y ago
  Caller: “hi 911, I’m being held hostage by an armed and violent individual at this address, this is the only opportunity I’ve had to use a phone” 911 call taker: “Thanks for your report. We’ll work on verifying this and might be able to get out there in 2-3 weeks.”
  - Mirioron 7y ago
    Or maybe the police can still go check, but just not do it guns blazing? They can ring the door bell and ask to check around. If they're afraid of being fired upon they could even use a police robot or something.
    - TeMPOraL 7y ago
      Or even stand some distance from the door and shout "THIS IS THE POLICE, EVERYONE GET OUT WITH YOUR HANDS UP" through a bullhorn; it's going to be much less disruptive to everyone than a flashbang through the window, and the officers can still be hidden behind cover in case of actual criminals wielding guns being present.
      - stordoff 7y ago
        "They've threatened to kill me the if the police show up." I don't think there can be any one-size-fits-all solution to this - each case must be assessed on its own merits.

AcerbicZero 7y ago

This could have just been an unfortunate escalation of the political tension which seems to be omnipresent, but once you drag the police into the game it becomes deadly. I suspect the idea of "counter-doxing" made sense at one time, when CNN was threatening to dox people over memes, or when someone is doxed, fired, and humiliated, because a twitter-ista thinks you've manspread too far (/s?), but none of that even remotely compares to swatting. Sending a (generally speaking) overzealous police force to a persons home after convincing the police a violent crime is underway, is on the scale between assault, and attempted murder in my opinion (and that's assuming no one actually gets hurt). Edit: There seems to be some confusion below. I'm not excusing the police of their responsibility by any means. Its important to remember the vast majority of swatting incidents end without violence, thanks almost entirely to the professionalism of the men who have just kicked down a door (or chose not to kick down the door, but knock instead) and found out that the phone call they got about a guy in his living room butchering small children is actually just a dude playing video games or whatever. Edit2: I'm a pretty libertarian fellow but if you are incapable of thinking of a scenario where you would want the police to kick in your door and storm your house with guns, then you either have no imagination, or you live in a magical fairy tale land and I'm super jealous.

jMyles 7y ago
I think I prefer to live in a society in which these sorts of fake calls are intentionally and randomly made - without notice or authorization of any sort - in order to continually test and verify that emergency services are functioning properly (in this case, not killing anyone based on an anonymous tip). Making a 911 call is an anonymous venture; there's no deposition or oath or penalty of perjury here. A civilized society is one in which calls made to such an endpoint (whether by a human or bot or whomever) are treated accordingly. Police need to stop killing people. Stop violating people's rights. SWAT teams have not made society better and are easily deprecated. That's the real message here.
- dmix 7y ago
  There was absolutely no need for that cop to shoot that person who got SWAT'd either. The guy was completely surrounded by police with rifles, at a far distance, and he was obviously confused at being told multiple different commands. They are way, way too quick to pull the trigger. All 911 calls are and should be taken seriously though. Even when you misdial 911 they will sometimes even send a car out to make sure, unless you explain yourself well over the phone. So these scammer guys will always be able to get a police response, especially as long as phone calls can be spoofed to look like it's coming from "inside" the house. The only variable is how the police handle it and, of course, how many sociopaths there are who can pull it off properly without getting caught.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

jonnycomputer 7y ago

I might be wrong, but a whole bunch of heavily armed guys busting down doors in response to an anonymous phone call is not in the spirit of prioritizing de-escalation over violent resolutions. I want cops de-escalating situations, not shooting up the neighborhood, or going on high-speed chases on neighborhood streets. Now, I imagine swat teams don't like doxxing either. Sounds like a business opportunity.

rhcom2 7y ago
Unfortunately in our world of active shooters the thinking is now that the police should enter the situation to try to engage the shooter as fast as possible as research shows this is what saves the most lives.
- JustSomeNobody 7y ago
  What world is that? I don’t believe that happens often enough in my world for police to come in guns blazing.
  - rhcom2 7y ago
    I'm trying to explain why de-escalation is not the preferred tactical response from the police when it comes to active shooter scenarios. I think it makes sense from a law enforcement point of view to take every threat as credible until proven otherwise. According the FBI there's been 250 between 2000-2017. https://www.fbi.gov/about/partnerships/office-of-partner-engagement/active-shooter-incidents-graphics https://www.fbi.gov/about/partnerships/office-of-partner-eng... I also think it's important to understand why the police respond like they do. It isn't arbitrary, it's statistically suppose to save lives, but SWATing is intentionally abusing that response.
    - tastroder 7y ago
      250 incidents in 17 years seems to hardly be an explanation to rule out de-escalation by default when interacting with the general population. Even in these cases, it's not like SWATting is a new phenomenon. As an alternative: Maybe invest in proper training for LEOs instead of military grade equipment, that would at least decrease the frequency of stuff like [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Wichita_swatting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Wichita_swatting

cosmodisk 7y ago

Absolutely creepy website...Went on to see what they've got there.. Randomly clicked on one of the names on the list..Some kid's photo,with all his contact details,his parents names,photos,phone numbers,etc..FFS

dmix 7y ago
Sheesh, imagine if they had access to Facebook's data.

4ntonius8lock 7y ago

I'm very sorry for the Journalists affected, but I have to say I'm glad it happened to them. We need high profile issues like these. It's the only way it will change. Untold thousands of regular joe's get hit with this every year. No one cares since it only happens to 'the bad guys'. When you have authoritarianism, it doesn't always go your way. That's why we should be against authoritarian tactics, such as sending armed men to break down doors and terrorize people over an anonymous phone call (I personally think we should draw the line in the sand much more on the side of freedom, but this basic level should be agreed by all) I grew up long enough ago when there was a feeling that the Western world was superior to the Iron and Bamboo curtains because these things didn't happen in America.

aaron695 7y ago

"far-right group that maintains a Deep Web database" How to set this up is a more boring than it sounds... https://doxbin.org/robots.txt https://doxbin.org/robots.txt User-agent: * Disallow: Although it's done incorrectly. site:doxbin.org (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doxbin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doxbin)