4 ms·

Bear in mind that the food costs less at that restaurant _because_ the wait staff is paid less _because_ it is assumed you are tipping. As such, yes, you are a

Bear in mind that the food costs less at that restaurant _because_ the wait staff is paid less _because_ it is assumed you are tipping. As such, yes, you are a bad person for not tipping; you are getting the benefit of lower food prices in exchange for tipping.

traderjane 7y ago
Tipping is what sustains the practice of underpaying.
SilasX 7y ago
It's not that simple. In addition to that effect, you also have the dynamic that people can undertip [1] some amount without consequence. Meaning that price + customary tip will actually have to be higher than the average untipped price, since it doesn't have to make up for the defectors. [1] specifically, that means tipping under the average and/or in accordance with a lower scale or tougher standards than is generally expected.
mabbo 7y ago
Can you imagine if all stores worked this way? Hey, the pricetag on the shirt at Walmart says $10, but you should really pay $13 because otherwise they'll just not pay their staff. But hey, your choice, you can (if you choose) cause their staff to have no money for food for their families. The problem here isn't the person not tipping, it's the broken culture where ensuring a livable wage for the poorest in society is a choice the wealthy get to make based on how they feel today.
Beldin 7y ago
Which would be a factor if the sole reason for picking a particular restaurant is lowest price. That's virtually never - if it is, go home and cook. It's cheaper. The whole tipping system is insane: I'll allow you to provide services in my restaurant and if the customers like you, perhaps you'll earn some money. I'm still waiting for the restaurant holders to come up with the idea of charging for this unique opportunity. "Don't think of it as paying to be allowed to work, think of it as investing in your revenue-generating activities! !"
- RHSeeger 7y ago
  > Which would be a factor if the sole reason for picking a particular restaurant is lowest price. Actually, it wouldn't matter if lowest price was the sole factor for picking a particular restaurant. Because all restaurants would be lowering their prices by the same general percentage. However, it does impact the choice of whether or not to go out to eat. Unless you're talking about the case where some restaurants discourage tipping (and charge more) but others don't. In which case, there's many cases of that happening and the restaurants closing or switching back. Because price, which not the sole factor, can be a very important one. It certainly impacts my choice when I go out to eat.
tetraca 7y ago
That doesn't make sense. You aren't getting lower food prices at all if you are obligated to tip. Rather, the actual prices of restaurant food items are just undermarked by 15-20% of their actual cost.
- Scoundreller 7y ago
  Usually the income isn’t being reported by the tip-earner/takers, and you’re not paying sales tax on the service received.
  - tetraca 7y ago
    The former is only going to be true if you pay them in cash; I don't believe credit tips are so easy to hide. The latter is inconsequential.
    - Scoundreller 7y ago
      Despite the paper trail, local details of audits I know of, indicated that workers still underreport. https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjAoKn1r87jAhUGhOAKHZoXCOEQzPwBegQIARAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theglobeandmail.com%2Freport-on-business%2Fsmall-business%2Ftalent%2Fcra-cracks-down-on-undeclared-tips-for-restaurant-and-bar-staff%2Farticle38025478%2F&psig=AOvVaw25KPnbsGl-zm27zDn8KG_Q&ust=1564085833556183 https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjA... Anecdotally, it remains true. Tips don’t go on the official pay reports that go to the Canadian government since it isn’t actually employment income paid by the employer. Why would sales taxes be inconsequential?
      - gambiting 7y ago
        I guess because you're only not paying sales tax on the tip portion of the payment - so if the sales tax is say 10%, your bill was a $100 and you left a $10 tip, you're only saving $1 on the sales tax.
        7y ago
Scoundreller 7y ago
Not just lower food prices, but a smaller tax base and possibly inflated student loans.

traderjane 7y ago

Tipping is what sustains the practice of underpaying.

SilasX 7y ago

It's not that simple. In addition to that effect, you also have the dynamic that people can undertip [1] some amount without consequence. Meaning that price + customary tip will actually have to be higher than the average untipped price, since it doesn't have to make up for the defectors. [1] specifically, that means tipping under the average and/or in accordance with a lower scale or tougher standards than is generally expected.

mabbo 7y ago

Can you imagine if all stores worked this way? Hey, the pricetag on the shirt at Walmart says $10, but you should really pay $13 because otherwise they'll just not pay their staff. But hey, your choice, you can (if you choose) cause their staff to have no money for food for their families. The problem here isn't the person not tipping, it's the broken culture where ensuring a livable wage for the poorest in society is a choice the wealthy get to make based on how they feel today.

Beldin 7y ago

Which would be a factor if the sole reason for picking a particular restaurant is lowest price. That's virtually never - if it is, go home and cook. It's cheaper. The whole tipping system is insane: I'll allow you to provide services in my restaurant and if the customers like you, perhaps you'll earn some money. I'm still waiting for the restaurant holders to come up with the idea of charging for this unique opportunity. "Don't think of it as paying to be allowed to work, think of it as investing in your revenue-generating activities! !"

RHSeeger 7y ago
> Which would be a factor if the sole reason for picking a particular restaurant is lowest price. Actually, it wouldn't matter if lowest price was the sole factor for picking a particular restaurant. Because all restaurants would be lowering their prices by the same general percentage. However, it does impact the choice of whether or not to go out to eat. Unless you're talking about the case where some restaurants discourage tipping (and charge more) but others don't. In which case, there's many cases of that happening and the restaurants closing or switching back. Because price, which not the sole factor, can be a very important one. It certainly impacts my choice when I go out to eat.

tetraca 7y ago

That doesn't make sense. You aren't getting lower food prices at all if you are obligated to tip. Rather, the actual prices of restaurant food items are just undermarked by 15-20% of their actual cost.

Scoundreller 7y ago
Usually the income isn’t being reported by the tip-earner/takers, and you’re not paying sales tax on the service received.
- tetraca 7y ago
  The former is only going to be true if you pay them in cash; I don't believe credit tips are so easy to hide. The latter is inconsequential.
  - Scoundreller 7y ago
    Despite the paper trail, local details of audits I know of, indicated that workers still underreport. https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjAoKn1r87jAhUGhOAKHZoXCOEQzPwBegQIARAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theglobeandmail.com%2Freport-on-business%2Fsmall-business%2Ftalent%2Fcra-cracks-down-on-undeclared-tips-for-restaurant-and-bar-staff%2Farticle38025478%2F&psig=AOvVaw25KPnbsGl-zm27zDn8KG_Q&ust=1564085833556183 https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjA... Anecdotally, it remains true. Tips don’t go on the official pay reports that go to the Canadian government since it isn’t actually employment income paid by the employer. Why would sales taxes be inconsequential?
    - gambiting 7y ago
      I guess because you're only not paying sales tax on the tip portion of the payment - so if the sales tax is say 10%, your bill was a $100 and you left a $10 tip, you're only saving $1 on the sales tax.
      - 7y ago

Scoundreller 7y ago

Not just lower food prices, but a smaller tax base and possibly inflated student loans.