7 ms·

The Clean Farming Revolution

89 points by mariushn 7y ago

senectus1 7y ago
I really want to get into this. maybe even turn it into a business. So much potential...
- vinceguidry 7y ago
  Have you considered indoor gardening? I've seen a few pics of fairly-dense setups over the years, might be enough to scratch your itch and work towards an eventual business.
jacknews 7y ago
Very interesting subject, but unfortunately the weird scrolling kills the site for me on firefox
- heymijo 7y ago
  Firefox user checking in. No problems scrolling here.
  - CameronNemo 7y ago
    Firefox on Mac here. Absolutely unusable. I disabled ublocko and umatrix.
georgehayduke 7y ago
This is a really interesting area and problem. When you factor in the extra food we need to produce to feed a population expected to hit 9bn people AND the increased demand for a more western diet from a growing middle class in places like China and India, we need some serious innovation in agriculture. Another interesting area not covered in the article is genetic engineering bacteria in soil to fix nitrogen, reducing the need for chemical fertilizers: https://geneticliteracyproject.org/2018/11/20/can-genetic-engineering-deliver-a-natural-microbial-fertilizer-for-crops/ https://geneticliteracyproject.org/2018/11/20/can-genetic-en...
rb808 7y ago
If you like that you'll love the sundrop solar & desalinating tomato growing plant in South Australia. https://vimeo.com/183859356 https://vimeo.com/183859356 https://www.sundropfarms.com/ https://www.sundropfarms.com/
rmason 7y ago
There are a number of problems with this story: 1. Farmers are using chemicals in bulk, they pick them up in 110-240 gallon containers that include a meter and a pump which are then returned to the dealership. The number of 2.5 gallon containers of old has been greatly reduced 2. He talks about finer and finer sprays. But there is a huge problem with that and it's drift. Drift over on a neighbors crops too often and your insurance carrier will cancel you. 3. I am not certain of the percentage but a fairly large percentage of pesticides are applied by commercial pesticide applicators, often part of a fertilizer company or grain elevator. These commercial applicators must be certified and are held to much higher standards than farmers. 4. He also talks about a positive and a negative charge or what is called electrostatic spraying. This has been around a fairly long while. It's had some success applying fungicides but not that much for other uses. 5. Lastly he speaks about what he calls vertical farming. People have been building these vertical farms for a number of years. I've yet to see the numbers work out so they can make a profit. It's often a high value crop like fruit or vegetables. For example tomatoes out of season where people in an East coast city are willing to pay 2-3x as much at say a Whole Foods. Funny but you never see a follow up story on these farms.
- VBprogrammer 7y ago
  As for vertical farming, there is an interesting video debunking it by some professor of agriculture. In essence it boils down to the fact that the 1000w of light applied per square meter by the sun dwarfs all of the other inputs. Unless we suddenly gain some form of near unlimited clean energy it doesn't make sense (except for some very limited circumstances like expensive micro-greens for classy restaurants)
  - Bootwizard 7y ago
    Would solar farms help mitigate the cost of running these vertical farms in any meaningful way?
    - Retric 7y ago
      Using current tech, you end up using more land gathering solar power as you gain back by going vertical. On top of that you need to pay for incredible amounts of solar panels.
tomp 7y ago
I haven't yet read the whole article, but this seems related: https://www.quora.com/How-is-China-able-to-provide-enough-food-to-feed-its-population-of-over-1-billion-people-Do-they-import-food-or-are-they-self-sustainable https://www.quora.com/How-is-China-able-to-provide-enough-fo... It's a description of how China does farming at scale. Some interesting points: seafood farms (floating in the sea) instead of fishing, sensible sustainable (or "sustainable") cycles (e.g. fish -> fertilizer -> mulberry trees -> silkworm -> fish) (they also need aerators so the fish don't suffocate, and solar panels to power the aerators), massive amounts of greenhouses (including in places where it was previously impossible to grow vegetables due to climate), drip irrigation (Israeli technology for growing vegetables in the desert, saves a lot of water), returning farmland to the forest (to prevent mudslides).
- lucasverra 7y ago
  thanks for bringing this to surface :)
- rb808 7y ago
  > You know that most Tibetans historically only eat yak meat, milk, cheese, and bread? They couldn’t grow anything in such a harsh climate. Only monks could have the luxury to eat vegetables. Now it is the solid proof that the Chinese government didn’t just destroy temples in Tibetan culture but helped them eat vegetables and fruits. That CCP is just so nice and helpful!
  - cagenut 7y ago
    wait if they couldn't grow anything how'd they get bread
    - dsfyu404ed 7y ago
      The kindness of the CCP, obviously. /s In all seriousness, you can make "bread" from damn near any grain if you're persistent enough and grains of various types (and small fruits, i.e. berries) can grow basically anywhere. It's large fruit and vegetables that tend to require easy mode to grow (which makes sense since they spend proportionally more resources growing that the fruit they produce). I'm not sure what's native to tibet but I assume they have some sort of wheat-like grass that can be farmed and provides grain for bread.
golergka 7y ago
This scrolling takeover is just awful.
artificialLimbs 7y ago
I can't understand how people can still think that technology is somehow going to save us from bad agri practices. The rise of permaculture/regenerative agriculture practices are some of the revolutions in 'farming' that I believe are what are going to be the basis for people producing food that are reasonable going forward. Cooperating with nature instead of fighting it is continually being proven to be the best practice for growing food from a environmental and deliciousness perspective. Every time I see an article about farmers having some kind of trouble, their crops are one massive monoculture. It's not natural, it's not sustainable, it's destructive for the environment, and that party is going to be over in the future. Go look at the permaculture forests that people have established and you'll be shocked at the production, lack of work required (after some years, of course), and complete lack of chemical/nutrient input.
- toss1 7y ago
  Was recently driving in the midwest US, hadn't been there in years, and at first the farmland seemed nice, but then as it went on for hours of driving, as far as you could see, just plowed fields forever, for monoculture crops, with minimal to zero habitat for wildlife... it became very ominous feeling, realizing that this is millions of square miles, nearly as industrial as a Houston refinery zone... Something's got to give.
- acconrad 7y ago
  I work in agtech so I can speak to some of your concerns. > people can still think that technology is somehow going to save us from bad agri practices So one thing we're doing at my company is we're trying to de-commoditize agriculture. You're right in that the current agriculture practices are all about creating a baseline crop for the commodities trading market. The truth is that these practices vary from farm to farm, and there are quantifiable metrics you can track in crops. These crop qualities vary wildly and certain buyers of the major crops want different qualities. If we can turn our major crops from being treated as commodities, we can incentivize more sustainable agricultural practices that both create better crops for the economy and the environment. > Cooperating with nature instead of fighting it is continually being proven to be the best practice for growing food from a environmental and deliciousness perspective. Agreed. This is exactly what we're working on because we recognize that fighting the environment with harmful pesticides and herbicides has long-lasting residual effects on the soil and the economy. > Every time I see an article about farmers having some kind of trouble, their crops are one massive monoculture Are you referring to the fact that there are 4 major seed producers for 60% of the seed sales on the planet? [1] The economics of a farm are such that, because of commoditization, the margins are so razor thin that the only way to turn a profit (which they aren't, because prices on major crops have plummeted in the last 4 years) is to have a highly refined process from the purchase of the seeds, to fertilization, to hydration, to transport. The whole process is streamlined in a way that doesn't benefit the end consumer. Again, there are people hard at work to break this bad habit. Even still, there is plenty of variability in the end result of those crops, which is why crop quality can vary wildly depending on things such as rain, nitrogen in the soil, etc. A great primer on the lifecycle of a year in farming in the US is This Blessed Earth.[2] If you're interested in understanding the agriculture economy from a farmer's perspective, this is a must read. [1] https://finance.yahoo.com/news/how-consolidation-in-the-seed-industry-is-jeopardizing-our-future-food-supply-153208103.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/how-consolidation-in-the-seed... [2] https://www.amazon.com/This-Blessed-Earth-American-Family/dp/0393292576 https://www.amazon.com/This-Blessed-Earth-American-Family/dp...
throw0101a 7y ago
If you have uBlock Origin installed you may not see this, but in the top-right hand corner there's the text: "In Association with Corteva Agriscience".
- codeulike 7y ago
  Wait what? On a BBC site? That seems very unlikely. I'm viewing it in vanilla Chrome and there is nothing saying that in the corner.
  - CameronNemo 7y ago
    I can confirm it says that in the corner once I turn off ublock origin in Firefox.
    - codeulike 7y ago
      Thats weird, perhaps its a Geo thing. I'm in the UK and the BBC isn't allowed to carry advertising/advertorials in the UK. Presumably some of the content is also different.
- viburnum 7y ago
  Yeah, this is just sleazy advertorial, trying to make pesticides and chemical fertilizers sound good by calling them “clean.” Total trash.
wisienkas 7y ago
I think a much better approach would be to look away from using pesticides and start looking in other directions for doing agriculture

89 points by mariushn 7y ago

senectus1 7y ago

I really want to get into this. maybe even turn it into a business. So much potential...

vinceguidry 7y ago
Have you considered indoor gardening? I've seen a few pics of fairly-dense setups over the years, might be enough to scratch your itch and work towards an eventual business.

jacknews 7y ago

Very interesting subject, but unfortunately the weird scrolling kills the site for me on firefox

heymijo 7y ago
Firefox user checking in. No problems scrolling here.
- CameronNemo 7y ago
  Firefox on Mac here. Absolutely unusable. I disabled ublocko and umatrix.

georgehayduke 7y ago

This is a really interesting area and problem. When you factor in the extra food we need to produce to feed a population expected to hit 9bn people AND the increased demand for a more western diet from a growing middle class in places like China and India, we need some serious innovation in agriculture. Another interesting area not covered in the article is genetic engineering bacteria in soil to fix nitrogen, reducing the need for chemical fertilizers: https://geneticliteracyproject.org/2018/11/20/can-genetic-engineering-deliver-a-natural-microbial-fertilizer-for-crops/ https://geneticliteracyproject.org/2018/11/20/can-genetic-en...

rb808 7y ago

If you like that you'll love the sundrop solar & desalinating tomato growing plant in South Australia. https://vimeo.com/183859356 https://vimeo.com/183859356 https://www.sundropfarms.com/ https://www.sundropfarms.com/

rmason 7y ago

There are a number of problems with this story: 1. Farmers are using chemicals in bulk, they pick them up in 110-240 gallon containers that include a meter and a pump which are then returned to the dealership. The number of 2.5 gallon containers of old has been greatly reduced 2. He talks about finer and finer sprays. But there is a huge problem with that and it's drift. Drift over on a neighbors crops too often and your insurance carrier will cancel you. 3. I am not certain of the percentage but a fairly large percentage of pesticides are applied by commercial pesticide applicators, often part of a fertilizer company or grain elevator. These commercial applicators must be certified and are held to much higher standards than farmers. 4. He also talks about a positive and a negative charge or what is called electrostatic spraying. This has been around a fairly long while. It's had some success applying fungicides but not that much for other uses. 5. Lastly he speaks about what he calls vertical farming. People have been building these vertical farms for a number of years. I've yet to see the numbers work out so they can make a profit. It's often a high value crop like fruit or vegetables. For example tomatoes out of season where people in an East coast city are willing to pay 2-3x as much at say a Whole Foods. Funny but you never see a follow up story on these farms.

VBprogrammer 7y ago
As for vertical farming, there is an interesting video debunking it by some professor of agriculture. In essence it boils down to the fact that the 1000w of light applied per square meter by the sun dwarfs all of the other inputs. Unless we suddenly gain some form of near unlimited clean energy it doesn't make sense (except for some very limited circumstances like expensive micro-greens for classy restaurants)
- Bootwizard 7y ago
  Would solar farms help mitigate the cost of running these vertical farms in any meaningful way?
  - Retric 7y ago
    Using current tech, you end up using more land gathering solar power as you gain back by going vertical. On top of that you need to pay for incredible amounts of solar panels.

tomp 7y ago

I haven't yet read the whole article, but this seems related: https://www.quora.com/How-is-China-able-to-provide-enough-food-to-feed-its-population-of-over-1-billion-people-Do-they-import-food-or-are-they-self-sustainable https://www.quora.com/How-is-China-able-to-provide-enough-fo... It's a description of how China does farming at scale. Some interesting points: seafood farms (floating in the sea) instead of fishing, sensible sustainable (or "sustainable") cycles (e.g. fish -> fertilizer -> mulberry trees -> silkworm -> fish) (they also need aerators so the fish don't suffocate, and solar panels to power the aerators), massive amounts of greenhouses (including in places where it was previously impossible to grow vegetables due to climate), drip irrigation (Israeli technology for growing vegetables in the desert, saves a lot of water), returning farmland to the forest (to prevent mudslides).

lucasverra 7y ago
thanks for bringing this to surface :)
rb808 7y ago
> You know that most Tibetans historically only eat yak meat, milk, cheese, and bread? They couldn’t grow anything in such a harsh climate. Only monks could have the luxury to eat vegetables. Now it is the solid proof that the Chinese government didn’t just destroy temples in Tibetan culture but helped them eat vegetables and fruits. That CCP is just so nice and helpful!
- cagenut 7y ago
  wait if they couldn't grow anything how'd they get bread
  - dsfyu404ed 7y ago
    The kindness of the CCP, obviously. /s In all seriousness, you can make "bread" from damn near any grain if you're persistent enough and grains of various types (and small fruits, i.e. berries) can grow basically anywhere. It's large fruit and vegetables that tend to require easy mode to grow (which makes sense since they spend proportionally more resources growing that the fruit they produce). I'm not sure what's native to tibet but I assume they have some sort of wheat-like grass that can be farmed and provides grain for bread.

golergka 7y ago

This scrolling takeover is just awful.

artificialLimbs 7y ago

I can't understand how people can still think that technology is somehow going to save us from bad agri practices. The rise of permaculture/regenerative agriculture practices are some of the revolutions in 'farming' that I believe are what are going to be the basis for people producing food that are reasonable going forward. Cooperating with nature instead of fighting it is continually being proven to be the best practice for growing food from a environmental and deliciousness perspective. Every time I see an article about farmers having some kind of trouble, their crops are one massive monoculture. It's not natural, it's not sustainable, it's destructive for the environment, and that party is going to be over in the future. Go look at the permaculture forests that people have established and you'll be shocked at the production, lack of work required (after some years, of course), and complete lack of chemical/nutrient input.

toss1 7y ago
Was recently driving in the midwest US, hadn't been there in years, and at first the farmland seemed nice, but then as it went on for hours of driving, as far as you could see, just plowed fields forever, for monoculture crops, with minimal to zero habitat for wildlife... it became very ominous feeling, realizing that this is millions of square miles, nearly as industrial as a Houston refinery zone... Something's got to give.
acconrad 7y ago
I work in agtech so I can speak to some of your concerns. > people can still think that technology is somehow going to save us from bad agri practices So one thing we're doing at my company is we're trying to de-commoditize agriculture. You're right in that the current agriculture practices are all about creating a baseline crop for the commodities trading market. The truth is that these practices vary from farm to farm, and there are quantifiable metrics you can track in crops. These crop qualities vary wildly and certain buyers of the major crops want different qualities. If we can turn our major crops from being treated as commodities, we can incentivize more sustainable agricultural practices that both create better crops for the economy and the environment. > Cooperating with nature instead of fighting it is continually being proven to be the best practice for growing food from a environmental and deliciousness perspective. Agreed. This is exactly what we're working on because we recognize that fighting the environment with harmful pesticides and herbicides has long-lasting residual effects on the soil and the economy. > Every time I see an article about farmers having some kind of trouble, their crops are one massive monoculture Are you referring to the fact that there are 4 major seed producers for 60% of the seed sales on the planet? [1] The economics of a farm are such that, because of commoditization, the margins are so razor thin that the only way to turn a profit (which they aren't, because prices on major crops have plummeted in the last 4 years) is to have a highly refined process from the purchase of the seeds, to fertilization, to hydration, to transport. The whole process is streamlined in a way that doesn't benefit the end consumer. Again, there are people hard at work to break this bad habit. Even still, there is plenty of variability in the end result of those crops, which is why crop quality can vary wildly depending on things such as rain, nitrogen in the soil, etc. A great primer on the lifecycle of a year in farming in the US is This Blessed Earth.[2] If you're interested in understanding the agriculture economy from a farmer's perspective, this is a must read. [1] https://finance.yahoo.com/news/how-consolidation-in-the-seed-industry-is-jeopardizing-our-future-food-supply-153208103.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/how-consolidation-in-the-seed... [2] https://www.amazon.com/This-Blessed-Earth-American-Family/dp/0393292576 https://www.amazon.com/This-Blessed-Earth-American-Family/dp...

throw0101a 7y ago

If you have uBlock Origin installed you may not see this, but in the top-right hand corner there's the text: "In Association with Corteva Agriscience".

codeulike 7y ago
Wait what? On a BBC site? That seems very unlikely. I'm viewing it in vanilla Chrome and there is nothing saying that in the corner.
- CameronNemo 7y ago
  I can confirm it says that in the corner once I turn off ublock origin in Firefox.
  - codeulike 7y ago
    Thats weird, perhaps its a Geo thing. I'm in the UK and the BBC isn't allowed to carry advertising/advertorials in the UK. Presumably some of the content is also different.
viburnum 7y ago
Yeah, this is just sleazy advertorial, trying to make pesticides and chemical fertilizers sound good by calling them “clean.” Total trash.

wisienkas 7y ago

I think a much better approach would be to look away from using pesticides and start looking in other directions for doing agriculture