6 ms·

Why do people mock vegans?

39 points by wgx 7y ago

rusk 7y ago
Same reason they mock environmentalists. They're a threat to people who make lots of money from things they don't participate in.
- Jedi72 7y ago
  With issues like climate change its also easy to point the finger at government or big business, aka someone else. Veganism shnes a light on the questionable morality of individuals, which most people cant handle so they react angrily.
  - rusk 7y ago
    Cognitive dissonance plays a part yes, but media is also involved further stroking and nurturing these tensions.
    - ianleeclark 7y ago
      There's a good Citations Needed (podcast that does media analysis) covering this phenomenon https://soundcloud.com/citationsneeded/episode-80-animal-rights-as-media-and-pop-culture-punchline https://soundcloud.com/citationsneeded/episode-80-animal-rig...
- mikeymz 7y ago
  That makes no sense
  - akvadrako 7y ago
    He means everybody's in the pocket of Big Meat.
    - rusk 7y ago
      I don't mean "everybody" but people are influenced by media and media is influenced by powerful commercial interests. There are plenty of people that aren't, I'd say close to 50%, but there's huge swathes of the population that can be manipulated to pounce on things they don't understand.
amrrs 7y ago
On the contrary, In India, there's been a recent surge of mocking @ Non-Vegans (or) Should I say regular dieters? This trend is not only on Rise but also gaining a cult-status that declaring "I'm a Vegan" seems to be a social status. I don't disagree the Veggies have got all sorts of Nutrients that Humans need but not sure it has to be a thingy of shame if someone eats Meat.
- rusk 7y ago
  For sure this is more of a western preoccupation. Check out this popular English ballad about roast beef! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTH5gnluOVg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTH5gnluOVg
- eklavya 7y ago
  I always tell my non vegetarian friend to give up meat but I don't ever recall this being a social mocking or something anywhere. NVs do mock vegetarians about eating grass and not real food all the time though :D There are strict vegetarians in India who do not want any non vegetarians living alongside because of the smell and all that. I am not sure if I belong in that category but I have never experienced it being cooked near me, only served.
EvagohP5 7y ago
because they are a pain in the ass
sametmax 7y ago
Why do people mock hippies ? Why do people mock geeks ? Why do people mock iron pumpers ? Part of it is because it reflects something you know you could be doing. Part of it is because anything that is not on the center of the Gauss curve tingles our brain. Part of it is because they do weird sh* and it's good sport to make fun of that. As a veggie geek meditator that spends time in the gym, I certainly understand how goofy this stuff is. Better laugh at it. I mean, come on... This morning I ate spirulina, watched a Paul Stamets conf on psylo, took a Wim Hof style cold shower, stored away my vibrams five fingers and took 20 minutes of Vipassana meditation on a red dedicated cushion. You could write a TV show episode with less material.
- k__ 7y ago
  I have the feeling, people don't like others to have the moral higher ground. I don't know if it's especially threatening when they think it's undeserved or if they just try to frame it as undeserved so they can keep to their morally suspicious ways.
  - sametmax 7y ago
    You know when you cross a beggar on the street, and you don't give money ? Then sometime, you feel irritation toward the poor guy ? It's the same thing. You are not a bad person for not giving, but your brain notices a problem, and you do not act on it. Whether it makes sense or not makes no difference: it makes you feel bad, and your mind associates this unpleasant sensation with the person you crossed path with at that moment. Then you react: mocking, irritation, etc. We all do it all the time. It's not about being veggie, or giving money. The topic has no importance at all. In fact, morality has no importance at all. It's the same thing when you don't take the garbage out or have a huge pile of emails, except you got a person to blame other than yourself.
  - profikid 7y ago
    I agree with your argument. I don't like the moral policing of any group. But there is always a choice to politely say no and go on with your live. Everyone has there own values. I don't agree on the moral witch hunt that followed either. Take his private email, reframe it in the media. It destroys a person and I think that is very wrong.
OscarCunningham 7y ago
H. G. Wells: > New and stirring things are belittled because if they are not belittled the humiliating question arises "Why then are you not taking part in them?"
4ad 7y ago
Mock vegans? More often when I hang out in liberal/startup social groups vegans mock me, the non-vegan.
- arethuza 7y ago
  I used to share a flat with a militant vegan - used to give us leaflets with part dismembered pigs at breakfast time. Not sure this achieved very much as none of the rest of us ate bacon/ham for breakfast. I was quite impressed when he got a very painful dental condition and refused painkillers because they might have been tested on animals.
Insanity 7y ago
In my bubble (Belgium) I've not experienced this actually. But I'm not an 'advocate' for a vegan lifestyle though. I just eat vegan most days and vegetarian on the other days. I don't really care what other people do or eat, I'm not bothered by going to a restaurant with non-vegetarian/vegan friends. I'm fine if we bbq together and I get a meat replacement. I get that people might be upset if someone tells their choice of eating meat makes them a horrible person. I mean, you can replace "eating meat" with anything and you'd offend someone by calling them horrible :P
blodovnik 7y ago
I went to a comedy show where the comedian ruthlessly mocked vegans. It was very funny. There's not many targets of mocking these days that are acceptable maybe vegans are one.
- SwiftyBug 7y ago
  Why are we so obsessed with mocking groups? Is it really a necessity to deligitimate and derrogate the claims of an entire class of people for the sake of some laughs? If that is the case, I'd rather not laugh at all.
- cannonedhamster 7y ago
  Every comedian mocks vegans eventually. It's the same stupid jokes over and over with every comedian when it comes to how people eat. It's on television, it's even a joke is Scooby Doo. It's lazy comedy. There are entire YouTube channels dedicated just to mocking vegans. Yes, vegans are legal to make fun of, doesn't mean they aren't beating a dead horse at this point. First it's about how weird they are, then usually something about bean sprouts, then about how the vegans claim it tastes just like the real thing, when no vegan would want it to. Then end with how the vegans are dicks and the comedian will just enjoy their burger thanks. I've seen this routine verbatim by at least 5 different comedians.
sohkamyung 7y ago
I personally find the mockery puzzling. In Singapore and other asian countries, plenty of people are vegetarians (out of choice or for religious reasons).
- ur-whale 7y ago
  It's likely they don't get mocked because their lifestyle choice doesn't imply proselytism.
- lagadu 7y ago
  Vegetarianism and veganism are two very different things: one is a diet and the other a lifestyle.
  - sohkamyung 7y ago
    I see. Thanks for explaining the difference.
  - aries1980 7y ago
    Do we have a single word for people who eat plant-based food other than ideology, e.g. for health reasons or for just a preference?
    - lagadu 7y ago
      Isn't that what we call vegetarianism?
      - aries1980 7y ago
        I was in the belief the main difference between vegetarian and vegan diet is vegetarians eat eggs, dairy and some borderline products, e.g. honey. The Vegetarian Society does not explicitly mention the ovo-lacto vegetarians: https://www.vegsoc.org/info-hub/definition/ https://www.vegsoc.org/info-hub/definition/ Thanks for the update!
    - cannonedhamster 7y ago
blackbrokkoli 7y ago
Not a good article. It slices across complex societal issues, like free speech and employment, hate, internet phenomena, social media amplifying, slaps some veganism elevator pitch on it and calls it a day. I don't think much of value can be extracted from it, since the length just doesn't do the complexity justice. Also, this comment section is already mostly derailed and is degrading into anecdata and people discussing guessing what the article isn't about. Come on HN, you can do better!
diegoperini 7y ago
Here (in Turkey), the distinction between being a vegan, vegeterian, having a gluten free diet or just trying to lose some weight is sometimes so blurry that even some restaurants sometimes make crucial mistakes in their menus or marketing campaigns. So when everyday Jane/Joe mocks a person with a special diet, she often thinks that person is trying to lose some weight without succeeding ever for years.
arrrg 7y ago
People feel as thought it’s a moral judgement when someone just exists and is a vegan. They feel as though they are being judged, a finger is pointed at them. That is, of course, bonkers.
ur-whale 7y ago
To save you 5mn of your life: the answer to the question is nowhere to be found in the article.
emdowling 7y ago
I, and the people around me, mock vegans because 50% of vegans I've encountered are hypocritical. They don't eat meat or animal products, because of the "environment", but then eat fruit and vegetables that were imported from thousands of miles away by air. On a weekend, they drop pills, the trafficking and cultivation of which costs lives every single day. And never mind their flights halfway around the world for vacation twice a year, which do more to harm the environment than a year of not eating animal products. Vegans make an earnest attempt who practice what they preach, across their entire lifestyle, have my utmost respect.
- KitDuncan 7y ago
  I want to see stats, that vegans consume more drugs and go on vacation more than the meat eater of the same social status. Me and my vegan friends actively try to avoid flying as much as possible. We probably eat more fruit, but it's still orders of magnitude more environmentally friendly than meat and dairy. Also if you are concerned about work conditions in the drug industry, you might also want to look into the conditions of slaughterhouse workers. Many of them are psychologically scarred for life. https://metro.co.uk/2017/12/31/how-killing-animals-everyday-leaves-slaughterhouse-workers-traumatised-7175087/ https://metro.co.uk/2017/12/31/how-killing-animals-everyday-... Paywalled source: https://brill.com/abstract/journals/soan/21/4/article-p395_5.xml https://brill.com/abstract/journals/soan/21/4/article-p395_5...
  - emdowling 7y ago
    At no point did I say more vegans do this than non-vegans. I would say the proportion of people who engage in this behaviour is broadly the same regardless of diet. My point is that being a vegan in the name of the environment and animal cruelty, and still engaging in drugs and long-haul travel, which is far more harmful than a diet change, is hypocritical. If you’re truly a vegan for environment and ethical reasons, abstain from travel. You sound like one of the exceptions who practices what you preach.
    - drcongo 7y ago
lordnacho 7y ago
People mock vegans because of the sanctimony you often hear as the justification, and because of perceived superficiality. If you hear someone is vegan because of some religious reason, there's a long cultural tradition behind that and there's a degree to which people cannot escape their culture. But the vegans that are mocked are typically the upper middle class urbanites who - Have no idea what they are actually eating instead of not eating meat - Would like to signal to the world how good they are - Have no real time / money / convenience constraints on whatever ethical choice they decide to choose - Seem sort of juvenile in that their deeply felt convictions may quickly change to some other deeply held position This is not to say all vegans are like this, or that veganism itself is actually wrong, but the caricature is the stuff of comedy. Who doesn't have a friend that's dabbled in some ethical choices that only they could see the necessity of?
- rusk 7y ago
  But how real is that? What you see happening is this archetype that probably only represents a minority of vegans, and it gets blown up out of proportion and all of a sudden this is what you're talking about whenever you're talking about "vegans". You see it time and again, whether it's coeliacs, environmentalists, vegans, or any other out-group that goes against the grain of established ways of doing things.
- sametmax 7y ago
  I've heard about this stereotype a lot. Just like I have heard about muslim or black stereotypes a lot. I've not met any of them. Sure, I saw them online. Youtubes and "influencers" on instagrams are a terrible, terrible way to assess a population. Take any topic, soon the algo recommendation will make you cringe. But IRL ? A good third of the people close to me are veggies/vegans, me included. I've never seen anybody trying to convert anyone, preach, signal value or guilt trip others. We participate in BBQ, find workarounds and make sure everybody is happy when we invite people at diner. In the mix I have 2 nurses, a person still paying her student loan, a young couple with a new born and an old person earning minimum wage: they do have "real time / money / convenience constraints". And we talk regularly about "what [we] are actually eating instead of not eating meat". Recommending products and places, reading product compositions, and adjusting diets according to the new studies we came across. Now I understand that "the caricature is the stuff of comedy". Vegans are a good topic for laughing. I mean, we do weird stuff, it is indeed funny. Sometime I look at my day and think how much crap my teenage self would have given me if he saw me doing that. But I've yet to meet the vindictive ignorant proselyte vegans you are describing. I'm sure they exist. There are assholes everywhere, but I don't think eating meat or not conditions it. Statistically, there are smug aggressive idiots, and again, statistically, some of them must be vegan. Correlation. Not causality.
wickerman 7y ago
It may be different in different parts of the world, but where I'm from vegans tend to be middle-class/upper-class people who are blissfully unaware of how class barriers dictate the way you eat. And instead of trying to engage with it meaningfully (i.e. understand and propose ways for poor people to live on a vegan lifestyle when $$$ is tight and calorie intake needs are bigger) they just believe that anyone can live the same way they can afford. My personal pet peeves are that a) some of the arguments for veganism try to convince me that I should not eat animals because they're sentient beings and since the 70s we've started to see evidence that the concept of "sentience" is very very ephemeral and that plants also exhibit intelligent behaviour. I think this argument is incredibly homo-centric and I honestly find it a bit insulting to my own beliefs. b) the concept of going vegan being environmentally friendly is fine to me, but it's not just about not eating cattle. It's also about reducing carbon footprints of industrialised food production (i.e. going back to eating seasonal veggies!). Most vegans just eat whatever has the "vegan" label (i.e. quinoa) regardless of the fact that for it to get to their hands it had to be transported in a non environmentally friendly way. c) the biggest environmental offenders are companies. Instead of focusing on who's eating meat I'd rather start prosecuting companies with large carbon footprints.
- KitDuncan 7y ago
  Most vegans I know are students that live on a very tight budget. The notion that it is expensive to eat vegan is so ridiculous. Sure if you want to eat only beyond burgers or something like that it might be expensive, but nobody does that. Beans, rice, veggies, fruit, there is nothing expensive about that. Sure you don't get heavily subsidized milk for pennies, but you don't realistically need any milk replacements. As for c, you can do multiple things at once to approach climate change. Especially since they are completly unrelated.
  - wickerman 7y ago
    That's why I started my post with "in my part of the world". Beef is not that expensive and it's an incredibly efficient source for both calories and protein, both which are essential for say, construction workers. Students don't need to be doing heavy lifting 9 hs a day.
franze 7y ago
I believe by now that there is something like "childhood wisdom". Things we learn as kids that is explained to us as natural: owning cars, eating carcases, drinking the fluid that is originally intended for babies of another species, breakfast as the most important meal of the day, sitting with wet hair in a breeze gives you the cold, ... as soon as you question these you have a discussion with their inner 6 year old (using the logic of 6 year old) instead of an rational thinking adult.
- SwiftyBug 7y ago
  Breakfast being the most important meal is a lie that even doctors and nutritionists pass along. It was a lie so well crafted by the food industry that it's hard to convince people otherwise.
RustyBucket 7y ago
People should just mind their own business, that's why. Eat what you want, sleep with who you want, believe what you want - I don't care. The moment you start teaching me how to live my live - I have to ask you to fuck off. This is a general principle: applies to vegans, religion, politics, sex, etc.
- SwiftyBug 7y ago
  Imagine some people didn't try to tell slavers how to live their lives? There needs to be people questioning society's behaviours. Tat's how we adjust our moral compass.
tluyben2 7y ago
Not vegan but vegetarian, I recognize the anger and I regularly have people getting hostile and telling ‘last week I had a bbq and at 5 kilos of pork in one serving’ as if that would set me off or something. And it happens a lot (at least once a week in the summer). People are so crazy about their meat (I have seen people on HN say they would rather die than never eat bacon again...) and I guess they are afraid it will all end or something or that vegan or vegatarian-ism is contagious. The more educated of my meat eating friends raise their own animals (some slaughter them, some take them to the butcher), or, if they cannot afford that and cannot afford free range meat, when asked about animal suffering, say they just cannot care about that because they cannot live without meat. Same like people who smoke, drink, drive sportscars or gasguzzlers, eat sugar etc; they know it will kill them and/or the world, but they just cannot care about it. But personally (anecdotally) I do not see people so enranged as they are about meat eaters (in vegan circles: like I see in Berlin) or about vegan/vegetarians. I just see the reason vegans are angry about meat a lot more than the other way around.
iraldir 7y ago
Ultimately, people don't like what is different, especially if it's proselyte. It creates a "us vs them" situation, the same type that creates xenophobia and racism. I don't think that it is something that can be overcome without it coming from a central authority (religious or political). Something would have to be done on the same level as demonizing cigarettes to make people reduce / stop their meat consumption. (Lot's of advertisement explaining the moral issue, possible taxation on meat based on origin etc.). On top of that, traditional cuisine is one of the most fundamental identity concepts. Asking people to stop eating like their ancestors is a hard thing to do, without the value of it being better tasting. Overall, in a country that would have the political will to do so, the following solutions might work: - Heavy advertisement, like the one against cigarette - Taxes on meat, based on origin - Don't try to force people to eat healthily at the same time. While a ceasar salad without real chicken should exist, so should fat hamburgers and pizzas. - Invest on meat / cheese alternatives so that they become cheaper. Invest on marketing for kids as well for those. - Don't try to go all in at once. If all of the population reduce their meat based product consumption by 40%, it is a way bigger success than the current vegan movement. But without doing that, and just by having vegan as a proselyte community, you force people to choose a camp, either vegan or not. They'll chose that based on their relationship with the overall community and own internal moral compass, which is not very efficient and creates a lot of conflict.
lagadu 7y ago
The problem with vegans is that there is a small but extremely vocal minority that absolutely, positively just HAS to incessantly preach about it and try to belittle everyone else. As a consequence whenever someone who has heard about militant vegans immediately associates veganism in general with them exclusively simply because non-insane vegans (which I believe are the very large majority of vegans, though I have no data about it) are woefully underrepresented in the public consciousness of veganism.
- notvplez 7y ago
  This sounds more like a problem with people jumping to unfounded conclusions than with vegans, doesn't it? I'll admit I used to be one of those even though I'd never even met a vegan, and now that I have met literally hundreds (used to work in a vegetarian coffee shop) I've yet to meet a single one of these so called militant vegans who won't leave you alone before you've listened to all their arguments about what a bad person you are. Where I'm at there's a tendency to think of (US) Americans as fat, obnoxious people who will sue their own mother if that will get them some of the money they are so obsessed with, would you say this a problem with Americans or (as I believe) a problem rooted in lazy thinking, stereotyping and general prejudice?
  - lagadu 7y ago
    Stereotypes exist whether we like them or not and they're always rooted in a kernel of truth. People form stereotypes based on what they see around them, nobody has the time or patience to figure out whether some dude gesturing in the street waving a bible around with a cardboard cutout saying "chemtrails" actually has a good and nuanced argument about whatever he's talking about, we just assume that they're another looney. Hell, stereotypes are part of the what made us so successful a species today, we'd have been in trouble had our ancestors decided to figure out whether every sabretooth tiger they saw was actually just a kitten who wanted nothing but cuddles and love so the unconscious creation of them is a pretty deeply rooted defense mechanism.
- aries1980 7y ago
  Indeed. I think the issue is being vegan these days is not just about eating exclusively plant-based food, but a sort of political statement. I wish there would be a short, separate term to distinguish the two.
fit2rule 7y ago
If more people tended their own gardens and reaped the rewards of such an activity, there'd probably be a lot less mocking ..
throwaway3627 7y ago
Meat agriculture leads to: - antibiotic resistance (increases in deaths due to more resistant strains of bacteria) - pollution of air, soil and water - poor utilization of resources: water, nitrogen and food - breeding reactors for pandemics: thousands of animals kept very close together with people cleaning and moving waste within that area enhances pathogen evolutionary jumps - major contributor to climate change - yes, obligatory: animal cruelty In short, if we want to survive and not extinct ourselves because of a desire for $0.99 hamburgers, we're gonna have to go vegan whether we like it or not (it sucks, but I for one already made the change). It might be disappointing to many people, but it's a necessary shift in lifestyle standards, just as keeping fossil fuels in the ground.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
RandomInteger4 7y ago
Maybe due to the fact that on the internet at least, vegans tend to be the preachy moralistic types that call you a monster for eating meat. I don't know about IRL, as I haven't met many people that I know to be vegan, as with most groups on the internet, the worst squeaky wheels are over-represented and their brand of squeakiness really gets under many people's skin.
amriksohata 7y ago
A lot of hate towards Vegetarians and Vegans was also started by the food and meat industry. Watch "Fed Up" and "Cowspiracy" how the food industry felt threatened by people reporting its actions. The food industry is very powerful and created various stereotypes on purpose to protect its images and brands.
lorriman 7y ago
Veganism unavoidably implies a moral superiority where vegetarianism doesn't. That's pretty irritating. It also just doesn't mesh with most people's understanding of simple animals as simple and food-driven, not in any way equal to the long existential agonies and traumas of humans. Their implied moral high-ground, in the face of rampant predator killings in the natural world, adds up to too much Disney and too little sense. ...and lions eat their own young let alone warthogs.

39 points by wgx 7y ago

rusk 7y ago

Same reason they mock environmentalists. They're a threat to people who make lots of money from things they don't participate in.

Jedi72 7y ago
With issues like climate change its also easy to point the finger at government or big business, aka someone else. Veganism shnes a light on the questionable morality of individuals, which most people cant handle so they react angrily.
- rusk 7y ago
  Cognitive dissonance plays a part yes, but media is also involved further stroking and nurturing these tensions.
  - ianleeclark 7y ago
    There's a good Citations Needed (podcast that does media analysis) covering this phenomenon https://soundcloud.com/citationsneeded/episode-80-animal-rights-as-media-and-pop-culture-punchline https://soundcloud.com/citationsneeded/episode-80-animal-rig...
mikeymz 7y ago
That makes no sense
- akvadrako 7y ago
  He means everybody's in the pocket of Big Meat.
  - rusk 7y ago
    I don't mean "everybody" but people are influenced by media and media is influenced by powerful commercial interests. There are plenty of people that aren't, I'd say close to 50%, but there's huge swathes of the population that can be manipulated to pounce on things they don't understand.

amrrs 7y ago

On the contrary, In India, there's been a recent surge of mocking @ Non-Vegans (or) Should I say regular dieters? This trend is not only on Rise but also gaining a cult-status that declaring "I'm a Vegan" seems to be a social status. I don't disagree the Veggies have got all sorts of Nutrients that Humans need but not sure it has to be a thingy of shame if someone eats Meat.

rusk 7y ago
For sure this is more of a western preoccupation. Check out this popular English ballad about roast beef! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTH5gnluOVg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTH5gnluOVg
eklavya 7y ago
I always tell my non vegetarian friend to give up meat but I don't ever recall this being a social mocking or something anywhere. NVs do mock vegetarians about eating grass and not real food all the time though :D There are strict vegetarians in India who do not want any non vegetarians living alongside because of the smell and all that. I am not sure if I belong in that category but I have never experienced it being cooked near me, only served.

EvagohP5 7y ago

because they are a pain in the ass

sametmax 7y ago

Why do people mock hippies ? Why do people mock geeks ? Why do people mock iron pumpers ? Part of it is because it reflects something you know you could be doing. Part of it is because anything that is not on the center of the Gauss curve tingles our brain. Part of it is because they do weird sh* and it's good sport to make fun of that. As a veggie geek meditator that spends time in the gym, I certainly understand how goofy this stuff is. Better laugh at it. I mean, come on... This morning I ate spirulina, watched a Paul Stamets conf on psylo, took a Wim Hof style cold shower, stored away my vibrams five fingers and took 20 minutes of Vipassana meditation on a red dedicated cushion. You could write a TV show episode with less material.

k__ 7y ago
I have the feeling, people don't like others to have the moral higher ground. I don't know if it's especially threatening when they think it's undeserved or if they just try to frame it as undeserved so they can keep to their morally suspicious ways.
- sametmax 7y ago
  You know when you cross a beggar on the street, and you don't give money ? Then sometime, you feel irritation toward the poor guy ? It's the same thing. You are not a bad person for not giving, but your brain notices a problem, and you do not act on it. Whether it makes sense or not makes no difference: it makes you feel bad, and your mind associates this unpleasant sensation with the person you crossed path with at that moment. Then you react: mocking, irritation, etc. We all do it all the time. It's not about being veggie, or giving money. The topic has no importance at all. In fact, morality has no importance at all. It's the same thing when you don't take the garbage out or have a huge pile of emails, except you got a person to blame other than yourself.
- profikid 7y ago
  I agree with your argument. I don't like the moral policing of any group. But there is always a choice to politely say no and go on with your live. Everyone has there own values. I don't agree on the moral witch hunt that followed either. Take his private email, reframe it in the media. It destroys a person and I think that is very wrong.

OscarCunningham 7y ago

H. G. Wells: > New and stirring things are belittled because if they are not belittled the humiliating question arises "Why then are you not taking part in them?"

4ad 7y ago

Mock vegans? More often when I hang out in liberal/startup social groups vegans mock me, the non-vegan.

arethuza 7y ago
I used to share a flat with a militant vegan - used to give us leaflets with part dismembered pigs at breakfast time. Not sure this achieved very much as none of the rest of us ate bacon/ham for breakfast. I was quite impressed when he got a very painful dental condition and refused painkillers because they might have been tested on animals.

Insanity 7y ago

In my bubble (Belgium) I've not experienced this actually. But I'm not an 'advocate' for a vegan lifestyle though. I just eat vegan most days and vegetarian on the other days. I don't really care what other people do or eat, I'm not bothered by going to a restaurant with non-vegetarian/vegan friends. I'm fine if we bbq together and I get a meat replacement. I get that people might be upset if someone tells their choice of eating meat makes them a horrible person. I mean, you can replace "eating meat" with anything and you'd offend someone by calling them horrible :P

blodovnik 7y ago

I went to a comedy show where the comedian ruthlessly mocked vegans. It was very funny. There's not many targets of mocking these days that are acceptable maybe vegans are one.

SwiftyBug 7y ago
Why are we so obsessed with mocking groups? Is it really a necessity to deligitimate and derrogate the claims of an entire class of people for the sake of some laughs? If that is the case, I'd rather not laugh at all.
cannonedhamster 7y ago
Every comedian mocks vegans eventually. It's the same stupid jokes over and over with every comedian when it comes to how people eat. It's on television, it's even a joke is Scooby Doo. It's lazy comedy. There are entire YouTube channels dedicated just to mocking vegans. Yes, vegans are legal to make fun of, doesn't mean they aren't beating a dead horse at this point. First it's about how weird they are, then usually something about bean sprouts, then about how the vegans claim it tastes just like the real thing, when no vegan would want it to. Then end with how the vegans are dicks and the comedian will just enjoy their burger thanks. I've seen this routine verbatim by at least 5 different comedians.

sohkamyung 7y ago

I personally find the mockery puzzling. In Singapore and other asian countries, plenty of people are vegetarians (out of choice or for religious reasons).

ur-whale 7y ago
It's likely they don't get mocked because their lifestyle choice doesn't imply proselytism.
lagadu 7y ago
Vegetarianism and veganism are two very different things: one is a diet and the other a lifestyle.
- sohkamyung 7y ago
  I see. Thanks for explaining the difference.
- aries1980 7y ago
  Do we have a single word for people who eat plant-based food other than ideology, e.g. for health reasons or for just a preference?
  - lagadu 7y ago
    Isn't that what we call vegetarianism?
    - aries1980 7y ago
      I was in the belief the main difference between vegetarian and vegan diet is vegetarians eat eggs, dairy and some borderline products, e.g. honey. The Vegetarian Society does not explicitly mention the ovo-lacto vegetarians: https://www.vegsoc.org/info-hub/definition/ https://www.vegsoc.org/info-hub/definition/ Thanks for the update!
  - cannonedhamster 7y ago

blackbrokkoli 7y ago

Not a good article. It slices across complex societal issues, like free speech and employment, hate, internet phenomena, social media amplifying, slaps some veganism elevator pitch on it and calls it a day. I don't think much of value can be extracted from it, since the length just doesn't do the complexity justice. Also, this comment section is already mostly derailed and is degrading into anecdata and people discussing guessing what the article isn't about. Come on HN, you can do better!

diegoperini 7y ago

Here (in Turkey), the distinction between being a vegan, vegeterian, having a gluten free diet or just trying to lose some weight is sometimes so blurry that even some restaurants sometimes make crucial mistakes in their menus or marketing campaigns. So when everyday Jane/Joe mocks a person with a special diet, she often thinks that person is trying to lose some weight without succeeding ever for years.

arrrg 7y ago

People feel as thought it’s a moral judgement when someone just exists and is a vegan. They feel as though they are being judged, a finger is pointed at them. That is, of course, bonkers.

ur-whale 7y ago

To save you 5mn of your life: the answer to the question is nowhere to be found in the article.

emdowling 7y ago

I, and the people around me, mock vegans because 50% of vegans I've encountered are hypocritical. They don't eat meat or animal products, because of the "environment", but then eat fruit and vegetables that were imported from thousands of miles away by air. On a weekend, they drop pills, the trafficking and cultivation of which costs lives every single day. And never mind their flights halfway around the world for vacation twice a year, which do more to harm the environment than a year of not eating animal products. Vegans make an earnest attempt who practice what they preach, across their entire lifestyle, have my utmost respect.

KitDuncan 7y ago
I want to see stats, that vegans consume more drugs and go on vacation more than the meat eater of the same social status. Me and my vegan friends actively try to avoid flying as much as possible. We probably eat more fruit, but it's still orders of magnitude more environmentally friendly than meat and dairy. Also if you are concerned about work conditions in the drug industry, you might also want to look into the conditions of slaughterhouse workers. Many of them are psychologically scarred for life. https://metro.co.uk/2017/12/31/how-killing-animals-everyday-leaves-slaughterhouse-workers-traumatised-7175087/ https://metro.co.uk/2017/12/31/how-killing-animals-everyday-... Paywalled source: https://brill.com/abstract/journals/soan/21/4/article-p395_5.xml https://brill.com/abstract/journals/soan/21/4/article-p395_5...
- emdowling 7y ago
  At no point did I say more vegans do this than non-vegans. I would say the proportion of people who engage in this behaviour is broadly the same regardless of diet. My point is that being a vegan in the name of the environment and animal cruelty, and still engaging in drugs and long-haul travel, which is far more harmful than a diet change, is hypocritical. If you’re truly a vegan for environment and ethical reasons, abstain from travel. You sound like one of the exceptions who practices what you preach.
  - drcongo 7y ago

lordnacho 7y ago

People mock vegans because of the sanctimony you often hear as the justification, and because of perceived superficiality. If you hear someone is vegan because of some religious reason, there's a long cultural tradition behind that and there's a degree to which people cannot escape their culture. But the vegans that are mocked are typically the upper middle class urbanites who - Have no idea what they are actually eating instead of not eating meat - Would like to signal to the world how good they are - Have no real time / money / convenience constraints on whatever ethical choice they decide to choose - Seem sort of juvenile in that their deeply felt convictions may quickly change to some other deeply held position This is not to say all vegans are like this, or that veganism itself is actually wrong, but the caricature is the stuff of comedy. Who doesn't have a friend that's dabbled in some ethical choices that only they could see the necessity of?

rusk 7y ago
But how real is that? What you see happening is this archetype that probably only represents a minority of vegans, and it gets blown up out of proportion and all of a sudden this is what you're talking about whenever you're talking about "vegans". You see it time and again, whether it's coeliacs, environmentalists, vegans, or any other out-group that goes against the grain of established ways of doing things.
sametmax 7y ago
I've heard about this stereotype a lot. Just like I have heard about muslim or black stereotypes a lot. I've not met any of them. Sure, I saw them online. Youtubes and "influencers" on instagrams are a terrible, terrible way to assess a population. Take any topic, soon the algo recommendation will make you cringe. But IRL ? A good third of the people close to me are veggies/vegans, me included. I've never seen anybody trying to convert anyone, preach, signal value or guilt trip others. We participate in BBQ, find workarounds and make sure everybody is happy when we invite people at diner. In the mix I have 2 nurses, a person still paying her student loan, a young couple with a new born and an old person earning minimum wage: they do have "real time / money / convenience constraints". And we talk regularly about "what [we] are actually eating instead of not eating meat". Recommending products and places, reading product compositions, and adjusting diets according to the new studies we came across. Now I understand that "the caricature is the stuff of comedy". Vegans are a good topic for laughing. I mean, we do weird stuff, it is indeed funny. Sometime I look at my day and think how much crap my teenage self would have given me if he saw me doing that. But I've yet to meet the vindictive ignorant proselyte vegans you are describing. I'm sure they exist. There are assholes everywhere, but I don't think eating meat or not conditions it. Statistically, there are smug aggressive idiots, and again, statistically, some of them must be vegan. Correlation. Not causality.

wickerman 7y ago

It may be different in different parts of the world, but where I'm from vegans tend to be middle-class/upper-class people who are blissfully unaware of how class barriers dictate the way you eat. And instead of trying to engage with it meaningfully (i.e. understand and propose ways for poor people to live on a vegan lifestyle when $$$ is tight and calorie intake needs are bigger) they just believe that anyone can live the same way they can afford. My personal pet peeves are that a) some of the arguments for veganism try to convince me that I should not eat animals because they're sentient beings and since the 70s we've started to see evidence that the concept of "sentience" is very very ephemeral and that plants also exhibit intelligent behaviour. I think this argument is incredibly homo-centric and I honestly find it a bit insulting to my own beliefs. b) the concept of going vegan being environmentally friendly is fine to me, but it's not just about not eating cattle. It's also about reducing carbon footprints of industrialised food production (i.e. going back to eating seasonal veggies!). Most vegans just eat whatever has the "vegan" label (i.e. quinoa) regardless of the fact that for it to get to their hands it had to be transported in a non environmentally friendly way. c) the biggest environmental offenders are companies. Instead of focusing on who's eating meat I'd rather start prosecuting companies with large carbon footprints.

KitDuncan 7y ago
Most vegans I know are students that live on a very tight budget. The notion that it is expensive to eat vegan is so ridiculous. Sure if you want to eat only beyond burgers or something like that it might be expensive, but nobody does that. Beans, rice, veggies, fruit, there is nothing expensive about that. Sure you don't get heavily subsidized milk for pennies, but you don't realistically need any milk replacements. As for c, you can do multiple things at once to approach climate change. Especially since they are completly unrelated.
- wickerman 7y ago
  That's why I started my post with "in my part of the world". Beef is not that expensive and it's an incredibly efficient source for both calories and protein, both which are essential for say, construction workers. Students don't need to be doing heavy lifting 9 hs a day.

franze 7y ago

I believe by now that there is something like "childhood wisdom". Things we learn as kids that is explained to us as natural: owning cars, eating carcases, drinking the fluid that is originally intended for babies of another species, breakfast as the most important meal of the day, sitting with wet hair in a breeze gives you the cold, ... as soon as you question these you have a discussion with their inner 6 year old (using the logic of 6 year old) instead of an rational thinking adult.

SwiftyBug 7y ago
Breakfast being the most important meal is a lie that even doctors and nutritionists pass along. It was a lie so well crafted by the food industry that it's hard to convince people otherwise.

RustyBucket 7y ago

People should just mind their own business, that's why. Eat what you want, sleep with who you want, believe what you want - I don't care. The moment you start teaching me how to live my live - I have to ask you to fuck off. This is a general principle: applies to vegans, religion, politics, sex, etc.

SwiftyBug 7y ago
Imagine some people didn't try to tell slavers how to live their lives? There needs to be people questioning society's behaviours. Tat's how we adjust our moral compass.

tluyben2 7y ago

Not vegan but vegetarian, I recognize the anger and I regularly have people getting hostile and telling ‘last week I had a bbq and at 5 kilos of pork in one serving’ as if that would set me off or something. And it happens a lot (at least once a week in the summer). People are so crazy about their meat (I have seen people on HN say they would rather die than never eat bacon again...) and I guess they are afraid it will all end or something or that vegan or vegatarian-ism is contagious. The more educated of my meat eating friends raise their own animals (some slaughter them, some take them to the butcher), or, if they cannot afford that and cannot afford free range meat, when asked about animal suffering, say they just cannot care about that because they cannot live without meat. Same like people who smoke, drink, drive sportscars or gasguzzlers, eat sugar etc; they know it will kill them and/or the world, but they just cannot care about it. But personally (anecdotally) I do not see people so enranged as they are about meat eaters (in vegan circles: like I see in Berlin) or about vegan/vegetarians. I just see the reason vegans are angry about meat a lot more than the other way around.

iraldir 7y ago

Ultimately, people don't like what is different, especially if it's proselyte. It creates a "us vs them" situation, the same type that creates xenophobia and racism. I don't think that it is something that can be overcome without it coming from a central authority (religious or political). Something would have to be done on the same level as demonizing cigarettes to make people reduce / stop their meat consumption. (Lot's of advertisement explaining the moral issue, possible taxation on meat based on origin etc.). On top of that, traditional cuisine is one of the most fundamental identity concepts. Asking people to stop eating like their ancestors is a hard thing to do, without the value of it being better tasting. Overall, in a country that would have the political will to do so, the following solutions might work: - Heavy advertisement, like the one against cigarette - Taxes on meat, based on origin - Don't try to force people to eat healthily at the same time. While a ceasar salad without real chicken should exist, so should fat hamburgers and pizzas. - Invest on meat / cheese alternatives so that they become cheaper. Invest on marketing for kids as well for those. - Don't try to go all in at once. If all of the population reduce their meat based product consumption by 40%, it is a way bigger success than the current vegan movement. But without doing that, and just by having vegan as a proselyte community, you force people to choose a camp, either vegan or not. They'll chose that based on their relationship with the overall community and own internal moral compass, which is not very efficient and creates a lot of conflict.

lagadu 7y ago

The problem with vegans is that there is a small but extremely vocal minority that absolutely, positively just HAS to incessantly preach about it and try to belittle everyone else. As a consequence whenever someone who has heard about militant vegans immediately associates veganism in general with them exclusively simply because non-insane vegans (which I believe are the very large majority of vegans, though I have no data about it) are woefully underrepresented in the public consciousness of veganism.

notvplez 7y ago
This sounds more like a problem with people jumping to unfounded conclusions than with vegans, doesn't it? I'll admit I used to be one of those even though I'd never even met a vegan, and now that I have met literally hundreds (used to work in a vegetarian coffee shop) I've yet to meet a single one of these so called militant vegans who won't leave you alone before you've listened to all their arguments about what a bad person you are. Where I'm at there's a tendency to think of (US) Americans as fat, obnoxious people who will sue their own mother if that will get them some of the money they are so obsessed with, would you say this a problem with Americans or (as I believe) a problem rooted in lazy thinking, stereotyping and general prejudice?
- lagadu 7y ago
  Stereotypes exist whether we like them or not and they're always rooted in a kernel of truth. People form stereotypes based on what they see around them, nobody has the time or patience to figure out whether some dude gesturing in the street waving a bible around with a cardboard cutout saying "chemtrails" actually has a good and nuanced argument about whatever he's talking about, we just assume that they're another looney. Hell, stereotypes are part of the what made us so successful a species today, we'd have been in trouble had our ancestors decided to figure out whether every sabretooth tiger they saw was actually just a kitten who wanted nothing but cuddles and love so the unconscious creation of them is a pretty deeply rooted defense mechanism.
aries1980 7y ago
Indeed. I think the issue is being vegan these days is not just about eating exclusively plant-based food, but a sort of political statement. I wish there would be a short, separate term to distinguish the two.

fit2rule 7y ago

If more people tended their own gardens and reaped the rewards of such an activity, there'd probably be a lot less mocking ..

throwaway3627 7y ago

Meat agriculture leads to: - antibiotic resistance (increases in deaths due to more resistant strains of bacteria) - pollution of air, soil and water - poor utilization of resources: water, nitrogen and food - breeding reactors for pandemics: thousands of animals kept very close together with people cleaning and moving waste within that area enhances pathogen evolutionary jumps - major contributor to climate change - yes, obligatory: animal cruelty In short, if we want to survive and not extinct ourselves because of a desire for $0.99 hamburgers, we're gonna have to go vegan whether we like it or not (it sucks, but I for one already made the change). It might be disappointing to many people, but it's a necessary shift in lifestyle standards, just as keeping fossil fuels in the ground.

deleted 7y ago

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RandomInteger4 7y ago

Maybe due to the fact that on the internet at least, vegans tend to be the preachy moralistic types that call you a monster for eating meat. I don't know about IRL, as I haven't met many people that I know to be vegan, as with most groups on the internet, the worst squeaky wheels are over-represented and their brand of squeakiness really gets under many people's skin.

amriksohata 7y ago

A lot of hate towards Vegetarians and Vegans was also started by the food and meat industry. Watch "Fed Up" and "Cowspiracy" how the food industry felt threatened by people reporting its actions. The food industry is very powerful and created various stereotypes on purpose to protect its images and brands.

lorriman 7y ago

Veganism unavoidably implies a moral superiority where vegetarianism doesn't. That's pretty irritating. It also just doesn't mesh with most people's understanding of simple animals as simple and food-driven, not in any way equal to the long existential agonies and traumas of humans. Their implied moral high-ground, in the face of rampant predator killings in the natural world, adds up to too much Disney and too little sense. ...and lions eat their own young let alone warthogs.