7 ms·

(I work at scale) Hmm this blog post and the website doesn't mention that this dataset was mostly annotated by Scale (scale.ai), as part of a partnership with

(I work at scale) Hmm this blog post and the website doesn't mention that this dataset was mostly annotated by Scale (scale.ai), as part of a partnership with Lyft ... We're going to publish a blog post about this soon, but if anyone at Lyft is reading this, please figure out how to reasonably credit Scale since I doubt leaving out Scale completely from the announcement is in the spirit of the agreement. Scale should probably also be added to the bibliography and website in some form Contrast this with the nuScenes website, which was also annotated by Scale, and whose data format set the standard for this dataset: they credit Scale pretty reasonably

saadalem 7y ago
I just researched scale before your comment here ! I tought : "This isn't done by scale ?"
cardigan 7y ago
Also, the viewer packaged with nuScenes was built by Steven Hao from Scale, and while it was packaged as part of nuScenes it should probably be called Scale's viewer instead of nuScenes' viewer. The original viewer in the nuscenes SDK has the Scale logo, but it looks like Lyft removed that in the fork. Maybe a bit of public shaming will fix that... Dear Lyft marketing person who wrote this: we are a data labeling company, and you may think that means we have a bunch of useless bozos working here like most other data labeling companies, but that's not true - e.g, Steven is one of the smartest people in the world - https://stats.ioinformatics.org/people/3113 https://stats.ioinformatics.org/people/3113 - he learns ridiculously quickly - e.g, gets to number one on random video games in a few weeks and learned to boulder L10 in a few months from scratch (normally takes years/decades and most climbers never get there)
- posix_compliant 7y ago
  Not nitpicking, genuinely curious. L10? I've never heard of that climbing scale.
  - kybishop 7y ago
    There is no such thing. They have to have meant v10, and climbing v10 "in a few months" is an incredibly skeptical claim. Without some kind of gymnast background I honestly don't think it's possible. Even 0 to v10 in a year is hard to believe. I've heard of phenoms doing it in 2 or 3 years, and don't doubt a year is possible... but a few months? Kind of like going from couch to sub 5-minute mile in a few months.
- person_of_color 7y ago
  > Steven is one of the smartest people in the world Also has a fan club on HN. :D
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- CameronBanga 7y ago
  These should probably be deleted.
- preommr 7y ago
  At first I was on kind of on your side against the other comments telling you to delete your other comment. I think its important to set the record straight if you can as early as possible. A small retraction/correction isn't guaranteed to make the frontpage of HN again. But then this comment took it into a weird turn with how fast steven can learn rock climbing (seriously, i am still kind of unsure if we're talking about rock climbing because its so random and unrelated).
  - domsnar 7y ago
    I think you're just jealous that he learned to boulder L10 in a few months from scratch AND gets to number one in video games!
- mitfahrener 7y ago
  Have a wonderful day tomorrow. Good luck.
  - 1000units 7y ago
    I'm hoping this was coordinated with the CEO and he's getting free lunch tomorrow for the successful publicity stunt.
- goguy 7y ago
  "Gets to number one in random video games" Genius
  - 1000units 7y ago
    Intelligence makes you good at everything, it's almost not fair.
- friendly_chap 7y ago
  > Maybe a bit of public shaming will fix that... Wow dude (or dudess), I was on your side but you are losing me there. You seem to be pretty pissed, and I hope you are anonymous and not Steven Hao... There is little room for emotion in business. Grow up.
cm2012 7y ago
Quick tip: voice concerns about partners in private. Lyft will probably be happy to credit Scale more - it was likely an honest mistake. But now you dragged them through the mud publicly, which is going to make big companies less likely to work with Scale in the future.
- obese_by_nature 7y ago
  Or maybe companies that are watching this play out will be drawn to Scale and their rock climbing geniuses because of the publicity. The comments by cardigan haven't changed the nature of capitalism.
  - exit 7y ago
    > The comments by cardigan haven't changed the nature of capitalism. that's hitting the nail on the head. scale's ceo wants their workers labour to disappear into a lump of anonymous capital. that is the nature of capitalism, and i have no respect for it.
    - dang 7y ago
      I'm sure you don't, but please don't take HN thread further into ideological flamewar. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
partingshots 7y ago
Yeah, this comment to me really gives off a bad impression of Scale as a whole. My immediate reaction, assuming this is how Scale normally deals with PR, is that this company is still far too immature to be properly handling any sort of legitimate partnership. FYI, you’re unlikely to solve any of your problems airing grievances on a public forum instead of just directly emailing the people involved.
DeonPenny 7y ago
You should delete this.
- breck 7y ago
  Nah, it’s a harmless mistake. Good for people to learn from.
- webninja 7y ago
  Nah, all publicity is good publicity.
- kerng 7y ago
  Overall many more people will know scale now, so I don't necessarily think it's as bad as many think. Maybe not the best choice of words obviously...
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
_coveredInBees 7y ago
Out of curiosity, isn't Lyft just a customer that pays Scale for annotation services? Or is there a reason for this to be more of a partnership and less of a customer-client relationship?
- DwarvenEngineer 7y ago
  yeah, i'd say so. what if lyft's lidar manufacturers said that they should be included in this release because it's their lidars? I agree, it doesnt really need mentioning
rubyfan 7y ago
If you are an officer of scale you should take this offline. If not then you’re probably not authorized to speak on behalf of scale. Check your NDAs and service agreements. This is in such poor taste, anyone who would consider scale’s service now has to consider this sort of public commentary.
- malandrew 7y ago
  Leaving out attribution is in poor taste. There were multiple chances to give attribution in the original blog post.
  - e40 7y ago
    We don't know the terms of the deal between the two companies. Your comment makes a lot of assumptions.
- webninja 7y ago
  > Anyone who would consider scale’s service now has to consider this sort of public commentary. Not if they leave attribution.
malandrew 7y ago
Hope you guys get acquired by someone that recognizes the talent of your team. You deserve it.
ayw 7y ago
Hi, I'm the CEO of Scale.ai. This comment does not represent the company's viewpoint, and cardigan is not speaking on behalf of Scale. We are very excited to have been able to work with Lyft in open-sourcing this dataset and advancing the research community. We are also very grateful to Lyft for choosing to leverage our point cloud viewer and have credited the annotations to us on their launch page.
- mitfahrener 7y ago
  Ouchy
- gesman 7y ago
  Gotta love HN. Good people come to comment on a minute notice!
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- kerng 7y ago
  Still odd Lyft doesn't credit this when posting about it.
- exit 7y ago
  the point cloud viewer which cardigan also had to point out was produced by someone at scale, and not nuScene? pretty inconvenient for you when workers want their efforts recognised, and not just thought of as capital for you to push around however you please, huh?
  - dangero 7y ago
    That’s a strange take on this. Not all staff are authorized to speak on the company’s behalf. That’s true almost anywhere I’ve worked. Your efforts cannot always be recognized externally. NDAs and various other types of contracts commonly outline that.
    - exit 7y ago
buboard 7y ago
I dont care, but god what is wrong with the replies. Let the guy speak his/er mind and stop playing game of thrones
cardigan 7y ago
OP here, just waking up (I'm remote) - I can't edit my original comments so let me modify them here: I wasn't involved in our communications with Lyft, so I was talking about something I didn't know much about. My audience was just the anonymous commenteriat: turns out a lot of people whose opinion makes a material difference to Lyft/Scale read these comments too. Sorry for not realizing that; I probably wouldn't have posted an uninformed personal opinion had I realized that. I was being way too aggressive - genuinely sorry to anyone at Lyft who felt maligned by these comments. I woke up to 20 messages from coworkers who told me I was being an ass - genuinely sorry :( Also I really should've clarified I was not speaking on behalf of the company: this was just a personal, uninformed opinion. I cannot go into the details I learned about Scale's agreement with Lyft since it's confidential
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- FBISurveillance 7y ago
  I seriously suggest you to add "Disclaimer" to every comment you leave on threads related to your company (see boulos' comments for example here on HN). Also, and I really mean this in a friendliest way possible, take a pause commenting here. You're not doing yourself a favor. I suggest you talk to your PR/marketing department before exposing more internal details, or run comments by them before posting.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- stevenjohns 7y ago
  It's in your best interests to edit out the last part of your comment.
  - obese_by_nature 7y ago
alexmlamb 7y ago
(I work at Lyft) I've had it with you Scale.AI people always trying to take credit for Lyft's work. We've been working weekends and nights for years, even the hourly workers have had to take unpaid overtime. All that time, I've never seen Scale.AI do extra work to help us before a big deadline.

saadalem 7y ago

I just researched scale before your comment here ! I tought : "This isn't done by scale ?"

cardigan 7y ago

Also, the viewer packaged with nuScenes was built by Steven Hao from Scale, and while it was packaged as part of nuScenes it should probably be called Scale's viewer instead of nuScenes' viewer. The original viewer in the nuscenes SDK has the Scale logo, but it looks like Lyft removed that in the fork. Maybe a bit of public shaming will fix that... Dear Lyft marketing person who wrote this: we are a data labeling company, and you may think that means we have a bunch of useless bozos working here like most other data labeling companies, but that's not true - e.g, Steven is one of the smartest people in the world - https://stats.ioinformatics.org/people/3113 https://stats.ioinformatics.org/people/3113 - he learns ridiculously quickly - e.g, gets to number one on random video games in a few weeks and learned to boulder L10 in a few months from scratch (normally takes years/decades and most climbers never get there)

posix_compliant 7y ago
Not nitpicking, genuinely curious. L10? I've never heard of that climbing scale.
- kybishop 7y ago
  There is no such thing. They have to have meant v10, and climbing v10 "in a few months" is an incredibly skeptical claim. Without some kind of gymnast background I honestly don't think it's possible. Even 0 to v10 in a year is hard to believe. I've heard of phenoms doing it in 2 or 3 years, and don't doubt a year is possible... but a few months? Kind of like going from couch to sub 5-minute mile in a few months.
person_of_color 7y ago
> Steven is one of the smartest people in the world Also has a fan club on HN. :D
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
CameronBanga 7y ago
These should probably be deleted.
preommr 7y ago
At first I was on kind of on your side against the other comments telling you to delete your other comment. I think its important to set the record straight if you can as early as possible. A small retraction/correction isn't guaranteed to make the frontpage of HN again. But then this comment took it into a weird turn with how fast steven can learn rock climbing (seriously, i am still kind of unsure if we're talking about rock climbing because its so random and unrelated).
- domsnar 7y ago
  I think you're just jealous that he learned to boulder L10 in a few months from scratch AND gets to number one in video games!
mitfahrener 7y ago
Have a wonderful day tomorrow. Good luck.
- 1000units 7y ago
  I'm hoping this was coordinated with the CEO and he's getting free lunch tomorrow for the successful publicity stunt.
goguy 7y ago
"Gets to number one in random video games" Genius
- 1000units 7y ago
  Intelligence makes you good at everything, it's almost not fair.
friendly_chap 7y ago
> Maybe a bit of public shaming will fix that... Wow dude (or dudess), I was on your side but you are losing me there. You seem to be pretty pissed, and I hope you are anonymous and not Steven Hao... There is little room for emotion in business. Grow up.

cm2012 7y ago

Quick tip: voice concerns about partners in private. Lyft will probably be happy to credit Scale more - it was likely an honest mistake. But now you dragged them through the mud publicly, which is going to make big companies less likely to work with Scale in the future.

obese_by_nature 7y ago
Or maybe companies that are watching this play out will be drawn to Scale and their rock climbing geniuses because of the publicity. The comments by cardigan haven't changed the nature of capitalism.
- exit 7y ago
  > The comments by cardigan haven't changed the nature of capitalism. that's hitting the nail on the head. scale's ceo wants their workers labour to disappear into a lump of anonymous capital. that is the nature of capitalism, and i have no respect for it.
  - dang 7y ago
    I'm sure you don't, but please don't take HN thread further into ideological flamewar. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

partingshots 7y ago

Yeah, this comment to me really gives off a bad impression of Scale as a whole. My immediate reaction, assuming this is how Scale normally deals with PR, is that this company is still far too immature to be properly handling any sort of legitimate partnership. FYI, you’re unlikely to solve any of your problems airing grievances on a public forum instead of just directly emailing the people involved.

DeonPenny 7y ago

You should delete this.

breck 7y ago
Nah, it’s a harmless mistake. Good for people to learn from.
webninja 7y ago
Nah, all publicity is good publicity.
kerng 7y ago
Overall many more people will know scale now, so I don't necessarily think it's as bad as many think. Maybe not the best choice of words obviously...
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

_coveredInBees 7y ago

Out of curiosity, isn't Lyft just a customer that pays Scale for annotation services? Or is there a reason for this to be more of a partnership and less of a customer-client relationship?

DwarvenEngineer 7y ago
yeah, i'd say so. what if lyft's lidar manufacturers said that they should be included in this release because it's their lidars? I agree, it doesnt really need mentioning

rubyfan 7y ago

If you are an officer of scale you should take this offline. If not then you’re probably not authorized to speak on behalf of scale. Check your NDAs and service agreements. This is in such poor taste, anyone who would consider scale’s service now has to consider this sort of public commentary.

malandrew 7y ago
Leaving out attribution is in poor taste. There were multiple chances to give attribution in the original blog post.
- e40 7y ago
  We don't know the terms of the deal between the two companies. Your comment makes a lot of assumptions.
webninja 7y ago
> Anyone who would consider scale’s service now has to consider this sort of public commentary. Not if they leave attribution.

malandrew 7y ago

Hope you guys get acquired by someone that recognizes the talent of your team. You deserve it.

ayw 7y ago

Hi, I'm the CEO of Scale.ai. This comment does not represent the company's viewpoint, and cardigan is not speaking on behalf of Scale. We are very excited to have been able to work with Lyft in open-sourcing this dataset and advancing the research community. We are also very grateful to Lyft for choosing to leverage our point cloud viewer and have credited the annotations to us on their launch page.

mitfahrener 7y ago
Ouchy
gesman 7y ago
Gotta love HN. Good people come to comment on a minute notice!
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
kerng 7y ago
Still odd Lyft doesn't credit this when posting about it.
exit 7y ago
the point cloud viewer which cardigan also had to point out was produced by someone at scale, and not nuScene? pretty inconvenient for you when workers want their efforts recognised, and not just thought of as capital for you to push around however you please, huh?
- dangero 7y ago
  That’s a strange take on this. Not all staff are authorized to speak on the company’s behalf. That’s true almost anywhere I’ve worked. Your efforts cannot always be recognized externally. NDAs and various other types of contracts commonly outline that.
  - exit 7y ago

buboard 7y ago

I dont care, but god what is wrong with the replies. Let the guy speak his/er mind and stop playing game of thrones

cardigan 7y ago

OP here, just waking up (I'm remote) - I can't edit my original comments so let me modify them here: I wasn't involved in our communications with Lyft, so I was talking about something I didn't know much about. My audience was just the anonymous commenteriat: turns out a lot of people whose opinion makes a material difference to Lyft/Scale read these comments too. Sorry for not realizing that; I probably wouldn't have posted an uninformed personal opinion had I realized that. I was being way too aggressive - genuinely sorry to anyone at Lyft who felt maligned by these comments. I woke up to 20 messages from coworkers who told me I was being an ass - genuinely sorry :( Also I really should've clarified I was not speaking on behalf of the company: this was just a personal, uninformed opinion. I cannot go into the details I learned about Scale's agreement with Lyft since it's confidential

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
FBISurveillance 7y ago
I seriously suggest you to add "Disclaimer" to every comment you leave on threads related to your company (see boulos' comments for example here on HN). Also, and I really mean this in a friendliest way possible, take a pause commenting here. You're not doing yourself a favor. I suggest you talk to your PR/marketing department before exposing more internal details, or run comments by them before posting.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
stevenjohns 7y ago
It's in your best interests to edit out the last part of your comment.
- obese_by_nature 7y ago

alexmlamb 7y ago

(I work at Lyft) I've had it with you Scale.AI people always trying to take credit for Lyft's work. We've been working weekends and nights for years, even the hourly workers have had to take unpaid overtime. All that time, I've never seen Scale.AI do extra work to help us before a big deadline.