16 ms·

The cubicles aren't really covered by the website, but I'm always struck by how little privacy is afforded by the dividing walls in toilets in the USA.

klez 7y ago
I've never visited the US, so I'm curious about what you mean. Is it the fact that they are thin and have nothing above and under? Because that's how they are here in Italy as well, at least in certain train stations, on highways and other high usage places.
- codeulike 7y ago
  I've never visited the US, so I'm curious about what you mean. The vertical gap between the floor and where the cubicle wall starts is huge. Like, knee height. So weird.
  - hvs 7y ago
    Knee height? I live in the US and have never seen this. I would say closer to ankle height.
    - montypythonxxx 7y ago
      i think the train station in Newark, NJ has them. Something about people ODing on the floor and no one finding out.
      - perfectstorm 7y ago
        I wonder why ODing is not a problem in rest of the world. If I were to guess it's to save money and not becuase they were concerned about some random dude ODing.
        asark 7y ago
        Not sure about the super-high gap ones, but I'd bet the normal-gap (mid shin, maybe?) ones make cleaning a lot easier. A semi-permanent pre-fab wall especially is probably gonna have a lot of gross little nooks & crannies at floor level. Also means you don't need to match the walls to the room height, which probably makes them a lot cheaper. I mean, imagine mopping one of those rooms. Bet you'd immediately be glad the partitions didn't reach the floor.
        cvuls 7y ago
        either way, you need to scrub the floors, unfortunately! source: i am a cleaner.
  - joegahona 7y ago
    If those knees belong to Peter Dinklage, maybe.
- simonebrunozzi 7y ago
  Most toilets in Italy are NOT that way (source: I am Italian), but rather they go floor to ceiling. I live in San Francisco now, and most toilets in the US cover only the middle space (open at the floor and ceiling).
- IshKebab 7y ago
  I think he's taking about how the stall door doesn't overlap the walls. Instead it is next to the walls and there is a significant (5 mm maybe) gap that lets you see into the stall. No it makes no sense. I think it's just like that because that's just how it has been traditionally done in America. Their toilets are also a different shape - much wider, lower and shallower. And urinals always have flush handles.
  - zdragnar 7y ago
    > And urinals always have flush handles. I haven't actually seen many newer urinals with flush handles. Pretty much anywhere with a recent install is sensor based. There's plenty of old equipment around, of course. Toilets are more hit or miss, though I'd hazard a guess that the majority of new installs are also all motion / sensor based. I can't speak to the bowl differences, though I'd suspect they're due to water efficiency, disabilities compliance and / or our heftier girth.
- sampo 7y ago
  > I've never visited the US, so I'm curious about what you mean. Google image search gives good examples: https://www.google.com/search?q=us+toilet+stall+gaps&tbm=isch https://www.google.com/search?q=us+toilet+stall+gaps&tbm=isc...
meddlepal 7y ago
That's really a function of cost and building owners being cheap. I have seen very nice stalls in the US, but I'm sure it was more expensive and everyones just kinda used to the status quo so nobody pushes back against it.
- dboreham 7y ago
  Yeah the toilets in a Nordstrom are pretty much stock UK grade no gaps for pervs to look around the door.. Another difference not mentioned above is double-doors. Toilets in public/institutional buildings in the UK (and probably elsewhere) have an air-lock type arrangement with two doors (inner and outer) with the result that nobody can see into the inner sanctum when people enter and leave. US toilets have just one door. https://www.quora.com/Why-do-some-public-restrooms-have-one-door-after-another-at-the-entrance https://www.quora.com/Why-do-some-public-restrooms-have-one-...
- Symbiote 7y ago
  No. I have been in poorer bits of Europe, sub-Saharan Africa, South America, Pacific islands. The USA is (so far) the only place¹ where there were gaps between the door and the "wall" of the toilet cubicle partitions. This is surely more expensive -- it requires special hinges to provide the gap. In other countries, "cheap" might mean a 2mm gap. In the USA, it's an intentional 2cm gap. There is some other reason. I'm not American. I genuinely don't know if I should admire it (lack of shame of bodily functions), or criticize it (afford less privacy to those who use public toilets). ¹ [There are places where there are no stalls at all.] https://travel.stackexchange.com/questions/26620/why-do-public-toilets-in-the-us-have-large-gaps-no-privacy https://travel.stackexchange.com/questions/26620/why-do-publ...
  - cmurf 7y ago
    I think it's to shame people into not using public toilets, as a disincentive, and at best to get people to leave as soon as possible. There are health consequences to pushing.
  - evilduck 7y ago
    Maybe its a pinch hazard for kids and they want to avoid a lawsuit.
virtualwhys 7y ago
> I'm always struck by how little privacy is afforded by the dividing walls in toilets in the USA. If you're ever in the Boston area, try checking out a Red Sox game; the urinary dividing "walls" are legendary.
- majormajor 7y ago
  Can you elaborate? Urinals or troughs without any sort of divider at all aren't uncommon (especially at sports venues) so I'm having trouble picturing what could be even less...
tuna-piano 7y ago
I don't understand it either, and it's not just us. I guess after WhatsApp + Facebook merged, there were also some cross-company clashes about that too - "Some [Facebook] employees even took issue with WhatsApp’s desks, which were a holdover from the Mountain View location and larger than the standard desks in the Facebook offices. WhatsApp also negotiated for nicer bathrooms, with doors that reach the floor..." Why a company paying their people tons of money won't spend a bit on the bathroom doors that reach the floor, I do not understand. https://qz.com/work/1299178/facebook-and-whatsapp-the-real-reasons-why-the-merger-went-wrong/ https://qz.com/work/1299178/facebook-and-whatsapp-the-real-r...
- cco 7y ago
  I've brought this up at my workplace as well and it isn't a budget issue in the US, it's mostly a lack of creativity or follow through from your office management team. Because more private, both in height and gap, doors aren't common in the US contractors aren't used to installing them and suppliers don't commonly carry them. You can find them at suppliers in major cities but you have to rely on the persistence of your office managers to track them down and spend time on something that most people don't rally around or bring up in discussions. The compromise in my office was rubber strips that cover the gaps found in normal stall doors, those are easily bought and installed by anybody.
  - acomjean 7y ago
    Lack of standards for stall doors (its probably not in the code so anything goes and I suspect if the door is closer to the floor it needs a more precise (expensive) installation. Lack of code is also probably the cause of the randomness of urinal heights.
- colanderman 7y ago
  I read once that one reason is ADA compliance. Having a gap under the partitions allows space for the toes of wheelchair users to navigate, so the stalls may be smaller. DDG turns up this plumbing blog post which lists that among other non-obvious reasons: https://onepointpartitions.com/why-are-bathroom-stalls-not-to-the-floor/ https://onepointpartitions.com/why-are-bathroom-stalls-not-t... And a more authoritative reference here: https://www.ada.gov/regs2010/2010ADAStandards/2010ADAstandards.htm https://www.ada.gov/regs2010/2010ADAStandards/2010ADAstandar... (Ctrl+F "604.8.1.4")
Isamu 7y ago
The open space at the floor is about ease of mopping. In many places all the bathroom stalls are effectively hung from the ceiling, so there is a continuous tiled floor with a single drain. This is to make it faster to mop up. It's probably because we don't want to employ more than one janitor to mop up.
- tuna-piano 7y ago
  That doesn't answer the question about the vertical gap between the doors (more invasive in my opinion). I've seen totally normal white collar office buildings with large gaps which the workers have covered with toilet paper, fabric, cardboard, etc. The makeshift seal was there for months (still there when I left the company). Why is this a solution that needs jerry-rigged solutions instead of a normal solution like everywhere else in an office building?
  - hanniabu 7y ago
    Yeah I never understood it either, it's very simple to have the components overlap. You don't need to worry about additional parts or tolerances or anything like that. Everything stays the same but the arrangement changes.
  - thelittleone 7y ago
    Is it just me or are these gaps getting larger? I travel to the US a couple of times a year for 15 years and it seems that way to me. It's disturbing that the probability is quite high that whilst searching for a vacant cubicle, your eyes may well lock with the single enlarged eye of a terrified pooper. This is not a bond I want to make.
    - roel_v 7y ago
      "This is not a bond I want to make." Once made, it's unbreakable though.
  - erikpukinskis 7y ago
    Panel gaps are just a feature of installation and manufacturing irregularities. You’re often drilling into concrete and people just don’t know what they’re doing. Better too loose (big gap) than too tight (door doesn’t close, need to re-drill the holes) is the thinking. You can install the doors properly with no gap, but it requires everything be square and plumb and all that. And then not get damaged.
moron4hire 7y ago
I don't understand how much more privacy your looking for. It's not like people can look in on you. Are you worried someone is going to hear you poop and find out that you're a person who poops?
- kevin_thibedeau 7y ago
  The Japanese have a solution for this dire problem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ond_IaNA4wk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ond_IaNA4wk
- H8crilA 7y ago
  I'm tall, and I can literally make eye contact with the guy in the next stall if we both stand up. Not my idea of a good place for small talk, or even a head nod. I usually just bend my back. It's quite ridiculous. Then there are the gaps around the door, like why.
- eeZah7Ux 7y ago
  In most countries in the world having to hear, smell and be heard is considered disgusting and embarrassing. Even more so if you know the people around you. In many places stalls are not used and toilets are fit in one small, dedicated room each.
kiliantics 7y ago
What I found strange was how much water was in the bowl of US toilets. It's nearly impossible not to experience a splash, the level is so high. I've even been in toilets here where I had to take measures not to have my genitals end up dipping in it. My favourite experiences have been in Germany and China, where typically most of the bowl is comprised of a dry "receptacle" which is then flushed with water into a smaller pipe opening.
- joegahona 7y ago
  If you put a small square of toilet paper into the water first, that can combat the splash. I have no idea of the science behind it, but it works. Can’t help you with your dangling-genitals problem, however.
  - wruza 7y ago
    All toilets I met also have a front side of bowl too sloped/close to you know what. I have to constantly use one of my hands to prevent a collision, which can be pretty terrifying depending on where you are. This problem must be widespread, since I’m not really that guy. These folks nailed it: https://toilet-guru.com/biblical_new.php https://toilet-guru.com/biblical_new.php
- userbinator 7y ago
  The water makes it less likely for waste to stick to the dry surface and accumulate, and also reduces odour. Splashing is more of an unfortunate side-effect of that design choice. I've even been in toilets here where I had to take measures not to have my genitals end up dipping in it. That's a bit too high, however.
- kabes 7y ago
  But you have less chance of skid marks with the American type, hence they don't need a brush next to the toilet. If you'd ever find yourself brushing at the house of a date you've been invited to, you'll quickly prefer the American ones.
  - 7y ago
KineticLensman 7y ago
It's a special case, but the Shard skyscraper [0] in London has male toilets on its 75th floor (approx) where the urinals are pedestals mounted in front of a clear glass wall looking over the city below. It's an awesome view! [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shard
- MrBuddyCasino 7y ago
  Acrophobians are gonna love it.

klez 7y ago

I've never visited the US, so I'm curious about what you mean. Is it the fact that they are thin and have nothing above and under? Because that's how they are here in Italy as well, at least in certain train stations, on highways and other high usage places.

codeulike 7y ago
I've never visited the US, so I'm curious about what you mean. The vertical gap between the floor and where the cubicle wall starts is huge. Like, knee height. So weird.
- hvs 7y ago
  Knee height? I live in the US and have never seen this. I would say closer to ankle height.
  - montypythonxxx 7y ago
    i think the train station in Newark, NJ has them. Something about people ODing on the floor and no one finding out.
    - perfectstorm 7y ago
      I wonder why ODing is not a problem in rest of the world. If I were to guess it's to save money and not becuase they were concerned about some random dude ODing.
      - asark 7y ago
        Not sure about the super-high gap ones, but I'd bet the normal-gap (mid shin, maybe?) ones make cleaning a lot easier. A semi-permanent pre-fab wall especially is probably gonna have a lot of gross little nooks & crannies at floor level. Also means you don't need to match the walls to the room height, which probably makes them a lot cheaper. I mean, imagine mopping one of those rooms. Bet you'd immediately be glad the partitions didn't reach the floor.
        cvuls 7y ago
        either way, you need to scrub the floors, unfortunately! source: i am a cleaner.
- joegahona 7y ago
  If those knees belong to Peter Dinklage, maybe.
simonebrunozzi 7y ago
Most toilets in Italy are NOT that way (source: I am Italian), but rather they go floor to ceiling. I live in San Francisco now, and most toilets in the US cover only the middle space (open at the floor and ceiling).
IshKebab 7y ago
I think he's taking about how the stall door doesn't overlap the walls. Instead it is next to the walls and there is a significant (5 mm maybe) gap that lets you see into the stall. No it makes no sense. I think it's just like that because that's just how it has been traditionally done in America. Their toilets are also a different shape - much wider, lower and shallower. And urinals always have flush handles.
- zdragnar 7y ago
  > And urinals always have flush handles. I haven't actually seen many newer urinals with flush handles. Pretty much anywhere with a recent install is sensor based. There's plenty of old equipment around, of course. Toilets are more hit or miss, though I'd hazard a guess that the majority of new installs are also all motion / sensor based. I can't speak to the bowl differences, though I'd suspect they're due to water efficiency, disabilities compliance and / or our heftier girth.
sampo 7y ago
> I've never visited the US, so I'm curious about what you mean. Google image search gives good examples: https://www.google.com/search?q=us+toilet+stall+gaps&tbm=isch https://www.google.com/search?q=us+toilet+stall+gaps&tbm=isc...

meddlepal 7y ago

That's really a function of cost and building owners being cheap. I have seen very nice stalls in the US, but I'm sure it was more expensive and everyones just kinda used to the status quo so nobody pushes back against it.

dboreham 7y ago
Yeah the toilets in a Nordstrom are pretty much stock UK grade no gaps for pervs to look around the door.. Another difference not mentioned above is double-doors. Toilets in public/institutional buildings in the UK (and probably elsewhere) have an air-lock type arrangement with two doors (inner and outer) with the result that nobody can see into the inner sanctum when people enter and leave. US toilets have just one door. https://www.quora.com/Why-do-some-public-restrooms-have-one-door-after-another-at-the-entrance https://www.quora.com/Why-do-some-public-restrooms-have-one-...
Symbiote 7y ago
No. I have been in poorer bits of Europe, sub-Saharan Africa, South America, Pacific islands. The USA is (so far) the only place¹ where there were gaps between the door and the "wall" of the toilet cubicle partitions. This is surely more expensive -- it requires special hinges to provide the gap. In other countries, "cheap" might mean a 2mm gap. In the USA, it's an intentional 2cm gap. There is some other reason. I'm not American. I genuinely don't know if I should admire it (lack of shame of bodily functions), or criticize it (afford less privacy to those who use public toilets). ¹ [There are places where there are no stalls at all.] https://travel.stackexchange.com/questions/26620/why-do-public-toilets-in-the-us-have-large-gaps-no-privacy https://travel.stackexchange.com/questions/26620/why-do-publ...
- cmurf 7y ago
  I think it's to shame people into not using public toilets, as a disincentive, and at best to get people to leave as soon as possible. There are health consequences to pushing.
- evilduck 7y ago
  Maybe its a pinch hazard for kids and they want to avoid a lawsuit.

virtualwhys 7y ago

> I'm always struck by how little privacy is afforded by the dividing walls in toilets in the USA. If you're ever in the Boston area, try checking out a Red Sox game; the urinary dividing "walls" are legendary.

majormajor 7y ago
Can you elaborate? Urinals or troughs without any sort of divider at all aren't uncommon (especially at sports venues) so I'm having trouble picturing what could be even less...

tuna-piano 7y ago

I don't understand it either, and it's not just us. I guess after WhatsApp + Facebook merged, there were also some cross-company clashes about that too - "Some [Facebook] employees even took issue with WhatsApp’s desks, which were a holdover from the Mountain View location and larger than the standard desks in the Facebook offices. WhatsApp also negotiated for nicer bathrooms, with doors that reach the floor..." Why a company paying their people tons of money won't spend a bit on the bathroom doors that reach the floor, I do not understand. https://qz.com/work/1299178/facebook-and-whatsapp-the-real-reasons-why-the-merger-went-wrong/ https://qz.com/work/1299178/facebook-and-whatsapp-the-real-r...

cco 7y ago
I've brought this up at my workplace as well and it isn't a budget issue in the US, it's mostly a lack of creativity or follow through from your office management team. Because more private, both in height and gap, doors aren't common in the US contractors aren't used to installing them and suppliers don't commonly carry them. You can find them at suppliers in major cities but you have to rely on the persistence of your office managers to track them down and spend time on something that most people don't rally around or bring up in discussions. The compromise in my office was rubber strips that cover the gaps found in normal stall doors, those are easily bought and installed by anybody.
- acomjean 7y ago
  Lack of standards for stall doors (its probably not in the code so anything goes and I suspect if the door is closer to the floor it needs a more precise (expensive) installation. Lack of code is also probably the cause of the randomness of urinal heights.
colanderman 7y ago
I read once that one reason is ADA compliance. Having a gap under the partitions allows space for the toes of wheelchair users to navigate, so the stalls may be smaller. DDG turns up this plumbing blog post which lists that among other non-obvious reasons: https://onepointpartitions.com/why-are-bathroom-stalls-not-to-the-floor/ https://onepointpartitions.com/why-are-bathroom-stalls-not-t... And a more authoritative reference here: https://www.ada.gov/regs2010/2010ADAStandards/2010ADAstandards.htm https://www.ada.gov/regs2010/2010ADAStandards/2010ADAstandar... (Ctrl+F "604.8.1.4")

Isamu 7y ago

The open space at the floor is about ease of mopping. In many places all the bathroom stalls are effectively hung from the ceiling, so there is a continuous tiled floor with a single drain. This is to make it faster to mop up. It's probably because we don't want to employ more than one janitor to mop up.

tuna-piano 7y ago
That doesn't answer the question about the vertical gap between the doors (more invasive in my opinion). I've seen totally normal white collar office buildings with large gaps which the workers have covered with toilet paper, fabric, cardboard, etc. The makeshift seal was there for months (still there when I left the company). Why is this a solution that needs jerry-rigged solutions instead of a normal solution like everywhere else in an office building?
- hanniabu 7y ago
  Yeah I never understood it either, it's very simple to have the components overlap. You don't need to worry about additional parts or tolerances or anything like that. Everything stays the same but the arrangement changes.
- thelittleone 7y ago
  Is it just me or are these gaps getting larger? I travel to the US a couple of times a year for 15 years and it seems that way to me. It's disturbing that the probability is quite high that whilst searching for a vacant cubicle, your eyes may well lock with the single enlarged eye of a terrified pooper. This is not a bond I want to make.
  - roel_v 7y ago
    "This is not a bond I want to make." Once made, it's unbreakable though.
- erikpukinskis 7y ago
  Panel gaps are just a feature of installation and manufacturing irregularities. You’re often drilling into concrete and people just don’t know what they’re doing. Better too loose (big gap) than too tight (door doesn’t close, need to re-drill the holes) is the thinking. You can install the doors properly with no gap, but it requires everything be square and plumb and all that. And then not get damaged.

moron4hire 7y ago

I don't understand how much more privacy your looking for. It's not like people can look in on you. Are you worried someone is going to hear you poop and find out that you're a person who poops?

kevin_thibedeau 7y ago
The Japanese have a solution for this dire problem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ond_IaNA4wk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ond_IaNA4wk
H8crilA 7y ago
I'm tall, and I can literally make eye contact with the guy in the next stall if we both stand up. Not my idea of a good place for small talk, or even a head nod. I usually just bend my back. It's quite ridiculous. Then there are the gaps around the door, like why.
eeZah7Ux 7y ago
In most countries in the world having to hear, smell and be heard is considered disgusting and embarrassing. Even more so if you know the people around you. In many places stalls are not used and toilets are fit in one small, dedicated room each.

kiliantics 7y ago

What I found strange was how much water was in the bowl of US toilets. It's nearly impossible not to experience a splash, the level is so high. I've even been in toilets here where I had to take measures not to have my genitals end up dipping in it. My favourite experiences have been in Germany and China, where typically most of the bowl is comprised of a dry "receptacle" which is then flushed with water into a smaller pipe opening.

joegahona 7y ago
If you put a small square of toilet paper into the water first, that can combat the splash. I have no idea of the science behind it, but it works. Can’t help you with your dangling-genitals problem, however.
- wruza 7y ago
  All toilets I met also have a front side of bowl too sloped/close to you know what. I have to constantly use one of my hands to prevent a collision, which can be pretty terrifying depending on where you are. This problem must be widespread, since I’m not really that guy. These folks nailed it: https://toilet-guru.com/biblical_new.php https://toilet-guru.com/biblical_new.php
userbinator 7y ago
The water makes it less likely for waste to stick to the dry surface and accumulate, and also reduces odour. Splashing is more of an unfortunate side-effect of that design choice. I've even been in toilets here where I had to take measures not to have my genitals end up dipping in it. That's a bit too high, however.
kabes 7y ago
But you have less chance of skid marks with the American type, hence they don't need a brush next to the toilet. If you'd ever find yourself brushing at the house of a date you've been invited to, you'll quickly prefer the American ones.
- 7y ago

KineticLensman 7y ago

It's a special case, but the Shard skyscraper [0] in London has male toilets on its 75th floor (approx) where the urinals are pedestals mounted in front of a clear glass wall looking over the city below. It's an awesome view! [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shard

MrBuddyCasino 7y ago
Acrophobians are gonna love it.