6 ms·

Modern use of the word ‘moonshot’ mocks Apollo

56 points by jajag 7y ago

williesleg 7y ago
Here I thought moonshot was an HP product.
fizwhiz 7y ago
ACM just got the HN hug of death
- simias 7y ago
  Indeed: https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:https%3A%2F%2Fcacm.acm.org%2Fmagazines%2F2019%2F1%2F233518%2Dhey%2Dgoogle%2Dwhats%2Da%2Dmoonshot%2Ffulltext https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:https%... It's an interesting article built on a flimsy premise IMO. Languages evolve, expressions evolve. It's like those people who insist that "3rd world countries" still should only refer to countries that weren't aligned during WWII. A "moonshot" is generally used nowadays to describe a very ambitious project with high risks of failure. Nothing more and nothing less. Still, I always enjoy reading about the Apollo project and the Space Race so once I got past the hair-splitting premise it made for an enjoyable read.
  - mruts 7y ago
    3rd world refers to the Cold War. The 1st world consists of Western democracies and other liberal and advanced states,the 2nd world are the communists, and the 3rd world comprises of everything else.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
  - jajag 7y ago
    The point the article is making is that a true moonshot is a project of incredible scale and ambition, and that we're loosing something by allowing the modern usage of the word.
    - turk73 7y ago
      We've lost much due to modern marketers running away with language. Most things are blown way out of proportion compared to their actual worth. We should mock such people mercilessly.
    - brightball 7y ago
      Modern usage of words are abused in all sorts of formats. I don't think moonshot is going to get any special treatment here any more than "all out blitz", "hate", "nazi", "socialist", etc. Social media in today's culture is almost built to destroy the meaning of words by overusing them for everything.
      - TheBranca18 7y ago
        The fact that the word literally means itself and its opposite based on use for emphasis is another good example of this.
  - Finnucane 7y ago
    "Move fast and break things"--Gene Kranz
  - taeric 7y ago
    Languages do evolve, so by that criteria, yeah so what? For that matter, things crash, people die, mistakes are made. Doesn't mean you can't discuss them. The big takeaway on this one, to me is that a moonshot is usually not just an ambitious project with a high risk of failure. No, a moonshot is typically an ambitious project with a high cost of success. There is a very big difference in that. If you try and keep things low cost, then a moonshot is doomed to failure. If you are willing to set ambitious goals and pay whatever it takes to hit them, you have a solid chance of success. The article takes issue with folks coopting a moonshot to say that it was nothing but clever people that succeeded against all odds. By that, some clever people use it as an excuse to play in projects that they think has a low chance of success. Hoping to find one where they are clever enough to beat chance. Now, I confess this is appealing to me. I've been in teams where they tried to brainstorm a "moonshot" that would change the future. Note, they wanted to brainstorm it. Not to pay for it.
  - detcader 7y ago
    > Apollo was a monumental accomplishment, like the construction of the Pyramids. For Google to emulate that might mean erecting a 10-mile-high earthquake-resistant skyscraper, to literally overshadow Apple and provide an object of public marvel. Does that sound like something Google management would authorize a massive bond issue for? No, it does not—even though the project would surely spur advances in architectural engineering, improvements in materials science, and create a lot of engineering and construction jobs. Far from enjoyment, I got pretty depressed by this. Advances in architectural engineering, improvements in materials science, ok? Is this what the country and world needs right now? Maybe I'm missing something, and the author is implying the skyscraper would be a giant methadone clinic!
- neilv 7y ago
  https://web.archive.org/web/20190723130144/https://cacm.acm.org/magazines/2019/1/233518-hey-google-whats-a-moonshot/fulltext https://web.archive.org/web/20190723130144/https://cacm.acm....
topmonk 7y ago
Archived version https://archive.fo/TRUSa https://archive.fo/TRUSa
forgottenpass 7y ago
The Valley is currently dead-set on spending all the good will "tech" has built over the decades and running away with the profits before people wise up to the fact they were promised tools but got Skinner Boxes and a corporate surveillance state.
- JustSomeNobody 7y ago
  And you're getting voted down because the truth hurts.
- tibyat 7y ago
  this is very well put, i totally agree. obviously overpaid like-button engineers are going to be offended, but technological advancement has stagnated, it’s not something you can bullshit your way out of.
jhbadger 7y ago
It is a misleading metaphor. I work in cancer research where the current endeavor is called the Cancer Moonshot. Then again, it is probably better than in the 1970s when it was called the War on Cancer.
- lawlessone 7y ago
  >War on Cancer. would probably get more funding that way..
Finnucane 7y ago
Why am I not surprised that X is run by the grandson of the guy who tested the idea of using atomic bombs to dig canals and shooting down missiles with bomb-powered X-ray lasers.
thrownblown 7y ago
And here I thought this was going to be a better way to to test my gql components...
detcader 7y ago
Let me make sure I'm understanding this right: It's not merely enough for it to be culturally taboo to criticize spending $20 billion a year on space missions -- we now have to watch out for accidental microaggressions?
- lm28469 7y ago
  It's 2019, if you breath chances are you're pico-aggressing someone. People spend more time being outraged about something than time actually trying to solve (or even understand) the underlying issue. The best part is that people are sensitive about topics that have nothing to do with them. Ask Buzz Aldrin what he thinks about "moonshot" he'll probably tell you he doesn't give a flying fuck. Let's call it outrage by proxy.
kingkawn 7y ago
All meaning is saved and spent in equal measure.
ARandomerDude 7y ago
Alternative explanation: it's a hyperbole that recognizes, rather than mocks, the Apollo program.
- taeric 7y ago
  I agree it isn't mocking. It is an appeal to the goodwill the Apollo program had, though. Often used to gain extra respect for whatever someone is doing, even in failure. Worse, it is used to excuse and invent new practices that are not tried and true. Which is, ironically, exactly the opposite of how we got to the moon.
neilv 7y ago
Quote: > Teller's pragmatic, iterative, product-driven approach to innovation is the exact opposite of what the U.S. did after Kennedy charged it to "commit itself to achieving the goal, before this decade is out, of landing a man on the moon and returning him safely to the earth." Letting Silicon Valley steal the term "moonshot" for projects with quite different management styles, success criteria, scales, and styles of innovation hurts our collective ability to understand just what NASA achieved 50 years ago and why nothing remotely comparable is actually under way today at Google, or anywhere else.
Tepix 7y ago
Haigh is right. Unicorns, Moonshots, ... these days it's even considered "disruptive" if you offer a couple of scooter for rent. Whom are you disrupting exactly?
- FroshKiller 7y ago
  Pedestrians.
- Munksgaard 7y ago
  Normal flow of traffic?
- SpicyLemonZest 7y ago
  That seems much too dismissive. Maybe scooters won’t end up being as transformative as Bird hopes, and probably that’s where the smart money is. But I’m imagining someone in 2007 saying “come on Steve, it’s just a cell phone with a big screen”.
- geezerjay 7y ago
  > these days it's even considered "disruptive" if you offer a couple of scooter for rent. Whom are you disrupting exactly? Public transportation, and how people move around a city? Sure, it's scooters/bikes/cars/helicoptera for rent. But being ubiquitous and affordable makes it usable and in some cases even preferable than established solutions. That changes a lot of stuff. Heck, airbnb is just a middleman in renting deals, right?
d--b 7y ago
It's not that they mock Apollo, it's just that they're not talking about Apollo at all. Had the expression been "starshot", or "uranusshot", it would have been understood as mocking the Voyager story?
AstroJetson 7y ago
The issue in my mind is that Teller didn't really understand what the challenge was. The author of the article was pretty good in stating that it was a seemingly impossible task with a unrealistic deadline that got pulled off by a lot of engineering heroics.
andy_ppp 7y ago
I don't think an article with this clickbait headline should be on HN to be honest. Horrible "journalism".
- moron4hire 7y ago
  It's generally considered to be "the rules" that what should not be on HN is questioning what should and should not be on HN.
  - andy_ppp 7y ago
    Fair enough, it really annoyed me for some reason.
- tibyat 7y ago
  its a CS professor’s editorial... what’s this bullshit you’re spewing?

56 points by jajag 7y ago

williesleg 7y ago

Here I thought moonshot was an HP product.

fizwhiz 7y ago

ACM just got the HN hug of death

simias 7y ago
Indeed: https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:https%3A%2F%2Fcacm.acm.org%2Fmagazines%2F2019%2F1%2F233518%2Dhey%2Dgoogle%2Dwhats%2Da%2Dmoonshot%2Ffulltext https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:https%... It's an interesting article built on a flimsy premise IMO. Languages evolve, expressions evolve. It's like those people who insist that "3rd world countries" still should only refer to countries that weren't aligned during WWII. A "moonshot" is generally used nowadays to describe a very ambitious project with high risks of failure. Nothing more and nothing less. Still, I always enjoy reading about the Apollo project and the Space Race so once I got past the hair-splitting premise it made for an enjoyable read.
- mruts 7y ago
  3rd world refers to the Cold War. The 1st world consists of Western democracies and other liberal and advanced states,the 2nd world are the communists, and the 3rd world comprises of everything else.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- jajag 7y ago
  The point the article is making is that a true moonshot is a project of incredible scale and ambition, and that we're loosing something by allowing the modern usage of the word.
  - turk73 7y ago
    We've lost much due to modern marketers running away with language. Most things are blown way out of proportion compared to their actual worth. We should mock such people mercilessly.
  - brightball 7y ago
    Modern usage of words are abused in all sorts of formats. I don't think moonshot is going to get any special treatment here any more than "all out blitz", "hate", "nazi", "socialist", etc. Social media in today's culture is almost built to destroy the meaning of words by overusing them for everything.
    - TheBranca18 7y ago
      The fact that the word literally means itself and its opposite based on use for emphasis is another good example of this.
- Finnucane 7y ago
  "Move fast and break things"--Gene Kranz
- taeric 7y ago
  Languages do evolve, so by that criteria, yeah so what? For that matter, things crash, people die, mistakes are made. Doesn't mean you can't discuss them. The big takeaway on this one, to me is that a moonshot is usually not just an ambitious project with a high risk of failure. No, a moonshot is typically an ambitious project with a high cost of success. There is a very big difference in that. If you try and keep things low cost, then a moonshot is doomed to failure. If you are willing to set ambitious goals and pay whatever it takes to hit them, you have a solid chance of success. The article takes issue with folks coopting a moonshot to say that it was nothing but clever people that succeeded against all odds. By that, some clever people use it as an excuse to play in projects that they think has a low chance of success. Hoping to find one where they are clever enough to beat chance. Now, I confess this is appealing to me. I've been in teams where they tried to brainstorm a "moonshot" that would change the future. Note, they wanted to brainstorm it. Not to pay for it.
- detcader 7y ago
  > Apollo was a monumental accomplishment, like the construction of the Pyramids. For Google to emulate that might mean erecting a 10-mile-high earthquake-resistant skyscraper, to literally overshadow Apple and provide an object of public marvel. Does that sound like something Google management would authorize a massive bond issue for? No, it does not—even though the project would surely spur advances in architectural engineering, improvements in materials science, and create a lot of engineering and construction jobs. Far from enjoyment, I got pretty depressed by this. Advances in architectural engineering, improvements in materials science, ok? Is this what the country and world needs right now? Maybe I'm missing something, and the author is implying the skyscraper would be a giant methadone clinic!
neilv 7y ago
https://web.archive.org/web/20190723130144/https://cacm.acm.org/magazines/2019/1/233518-hey-google-whats-a-moonshot/fulltext https://web.archive.org/web/20190723130144/https://cacm.acm....

topmonk 7y ago

Archived version https://archive.fo/TRUSa https://archive.fo/TRUSa

forgottenpass 7y ago

The Valley is currently dead-set on spending all the good will "tech" has built over the decades and running away with the profits before people wise up to the fact they were promised tools but got Skinner Boxes and a corporate surveillance state.

JustSomeNobody 7y ago
And you're getting voted down because the truth hurts.
tibyat 7y ago
this is very well put, i totally agree. obviously overpaid like-button engineers are going to be offended, but technological advancement has stagnated, it’s not something you can bullshit your way out of.

jhbadger 7y ago

It is a misleading metaphor. I work in cancer research where the current endeavor is called the Cancer Moonshot. Then again, it is probably better than in the 1970s when it was called the War on Cancer.

lawlessone 7y ago
>War on Cancer. would probably get more funding that way..

Finnucane 7y ago

Why am I not surprised that X is run by the grandson of the guy who tested the idea of using atomic bombs to dig canals and shooting down missiles with bomb-powered X-ray lasers.

thrownblown 7y ago

And here I thought this was going to be a better way to to test my gql components...

detcader 7y ago

Let me make sure I'm understanding this right: It's not merely enough for it to be culturally taboo to criticize spending $20 billion a year on space missions -- we now have to watch out for accidental microaggressions?

lm28469 7y ago
It's 2019, if you breath chances are you're pico-aggressing someone. People spend more time being outraged about something than time actually trying to solve (or even understand) the underlying issue. The best part is that people are sensitive about topics that have nothing to do with them. Ask Buzz Aldrin what he thinks about "moonshot" he'll probably tell you he doesn't give a flying fuck. Let's call it outrage by proxy.

kingkawn 7y ago

All meaning is saved and spent in equal measure.

ARandomerDude 7y ago

Alternative explanation: it's a hyperbole that recognizes, rather than mocks, the Apollo program.

taeric 7y ago
I agree it isn't mocking. It is an appeal to the goodwill the Apollo program had, though. Often used to gain extra respect for whatever someone is doing, even in failure. Worse, it is used to excuse and invent new practices that are not tried and true. Which is, ironically, exactly the opposite of how we got to the moon.

neilv 7y ago

Quote: > Teller's pragmatic, iterative, product-driven approach to innovation is the exact opposite of what the U.S. did after Kennedy charged it to "commit itself to achieving the goal, before this decade is out, of landing a man on the moon and returning him safely to the earth." Letting Silicon Valley steal the term "moonshot" for projects with quite different management styles, success criteria, scales, and styles of innovation hurts our collective ability to understand just what NASA achieved 50 years ago and why nothing remotely comparable is actually under way today at Google, or anywhere else.

Tepix 7y ago

Haigh is right. Unicorns, Moonshots, ... these days it's even considered "disruptive" if you offer a couple of scooter for rent. Whom are you disrupting exactly?

FroshKiller 7y ago
Pedestrians.
Munksgaard 7y ago
Normal flow of traffic?
SpicyLemonZest 7y ago
That seems much too dismissive. Maybe scooters won’t end up being as transformative as Bird hopes, and probably that’s where the smart money is. But I’m imagining someone in 2007 saying “come on Steve, it’s just a cell phone with a big screen”.
geezerjay 7y ago
> these days it's even considered "disruptive" if you offer a couple of scooter for rent. Whom are you disrupting exactly? Public transportation, and how people move around a city? Sure, it's scooters/bikes/cars/helicoptera for rent. But being ubiquitous and affordable makes it usable and in some cases even preferable than established solutions. That changes a lot of stuff. Heck, airbnb is just a middleman in renting deals, right?

d--b 7y ago

It's not that they mock Apollo, it's just that they're not talking about Apollo at all. Had the expression been "starshot", or "uranusshot", it would have been understood as mocking the Voyager story?

AstroJetson 7y ago

The issue in my mind is that Teller didn't really understand what the challenge was. The author of the article was pretty good in stating that it was a seemingly impossible task with a unrealistic deadline that got pulled off by a lot of engineering heroics.

andy_ppp 7y ago

I don't think an article with this clickbait headline should be on HN to be honest. Horrible "journalism".

moron4hire 7y ago
It's generally considered to be "the rules" that what should not be on HN is questioning what should and should not be on HN.
- andy_ppp 7y ago
  Fair enough, it really annoyed me for some reason.
tibyat 7y ago
its a CS professor’s editorial... what’s this bullshit you’re spewing?