5 ms·

I hate the complete lack of transparency in garments. We need to know all the details, including the weave? For someone that sweats a lot in hot & humid clima

by fouc 7y ago

I hate the complete lack of transparency in garments. We need to know all the details, including the weave? For someone that sweats a lot in hot & humid climates, why does one white cotton shirt show the sweat, and another doesn't? Why do I feel cooler with a thicker cotton shirt than a thinner one?

on_and_off 7y ago
Garments are so complex ! It still has so many handmade parts in the process and stuff that sound simple when you don't understand it like sizing is actually very complex (and not solved IMO). To answer your question, even between 2 100% cotton shirts, depending on the density of the cotton used, its type, and the way it is weaved, 2 cotton shirts can be radically different.
dhd415 7y ago
The weave is very important, but is one of the easier things to determine. For example, a voile (though uncommon in men's shirts) is much lighter than a moleskin though you would never find a summer shirt made of the latter. As someone who also sweats freely, I sympathize with you. If wearing a single shirt, I tend to go with a darker color for that reason. If wearing a dress shirt, I'll always wear an undershirt with it. There was a semi-famous US Army study about thicker cotton shirts feeling cooler in the heat since they can absorb more of your sweat than a thinner shirt. I can't attest to its accuracy. I wear them so I don't look like I just came in out of the rain.
- mikekchar 7y ago
  I can attest to the sweaty undershirt argument. It was a revelation for me. The other really strange thing is that if you have a sweaty undershirt, you will sweat less because you will be cooler. It's really amazing.
bacon_waffle 7y ago
> I hate the complete lack of transparency in garments. Visiting HN for a reset after a frustrating meeting, this line is exactly what I needed. Thanks :).
jay_kyburz 7y ago
What's even more frustrating is that its impossible to find even a brand that uses good quality fabrics all the time. Even expensive outdoor gear can be hit and miss.
- FDSGSG 7y ago
  Loro Piana (the clothing brand) is rather expensive but you will not often (ever?) run into poor quality fabrics in their stores.
  - jansan 7y ago
    There is just no way that a 625$ price tag for a polo shirt can be justified by the product's quality.
    - FDSGSG 7y ago
      Loro Piana cotton polo shirts are definitely not worth the price, the 645$ cotton/linen "jeans" definitely are. Nothing by Loro Piana is bad, lots of the stuff is overpriced but many things are quite reasonable. After the LVMH acquisition they regularly offer pretty great discounts too. I just bought one of these jackets (in yellow) for 1000 euros, an absolute bargain. https://us.loropiana.com/en/p/Man/Jackets/Sweater-Jacket-FAE8388?colorCode=W000 https://us.loropiana.com/en/p/Man/Jackets/Sweater-Jacket-FAE...
- nextos 7y ago
  Hope is not completely lost. Some crazy Japanese companies produce stuff with unbelievably good fabrics all the time. E.g. The Real McCoy's, Buzz Rickson, Studio D'Artisan and a few others. For cotton, many of their models are loopwheeled which is a fantastic low tension fabric that ages really well. All they are doing is to copy American techniques from the golden age of workwear and sportswear. In fact, they try to produce perfect reproductions. Modern streetwear brands like Outlier and Acronym are also really good. I love Ventile cotton as it's natural and fairly rain resistant. You can find several brands that use Ventile made by Stotz in Switzerland in coats. For pants, if you don't like denim German Ripsmoleskin is fantastic. Finally, knitwear from Inis Meain and SNS Herning is machine produced but absolutely fantastic. Expensive but not insane prices like some superb Italian brands. All these brands I mentioned are really high quality. Plus the production process and materials employed are really transparent. There are many others with different styles I would also trust like Merz B Schwanen, Maison Margiela or SEH Kelly.
jancsika 7y ago
> We need to know all the details, including the weave? You don't. In fact I'd argue that having access to the details makes you more likely to both choose the wrong garment and rationalize that wrong choice. > For someone that sweats a lot in hot & humid climates, why does one white cotton shirt show the sweat, and another doesn't? Branch one of this answer includes all kinds of details about thread count, thread length, thread quality, and all kinds of other details for you to get lost in. Branch two: don't wear cotton in hot & humid climates. > Why do I feel cooler with a thicker cotton shirt than a thinner one? Branch one includes all kinds of wonderful details about the way in which cotton wicks moisture but does a poor job of evaporating that same moisture. (Your thin cotton shirt sucks up your perspiration to arrive at the "moisture traffic jam" much sooner than your thicker one.) Branch two: don't wear cotton in hot & humid climates. Synthetic, bamboo, and even light merino tee shirts will all perform so much better that the difference between thin and thick cotton will become thermal noise by comparison (pun!). Seriously, don't learn the details. I can't tell you how many times I've had pointless conversations about the differences between various proprietary waterproof breathable membranes to people who are using the rain jacket exclusively in the Southeastern U.S. (Hint: none of them will do a decent job of being breathable there. So just pick one, unzip the vents under the arms and get on with your day.) Edit: clarification
- mikekchar 7y ago
  > don't wear cotton in hot & humid climates I seriously had to LOL at this. When I first moved to Japan, I was clueless. I live in a particularly hot and sunny part of Japan. During the rainy season, we sometimes have rain every day for a month (like this year :-P). It took having my clothes literally rot on the line before I understood this point. My predecessor (government program rotates foreigners to teach English) was famous for going to events with a shirt stained green from mould. It's the very first thing I tell people when they come here: don't wear cotton. There are much better natural fibres for this weather. You can also have cotton synthetic blends and they won't rot. The clothes that work well in the UK and most parts of North America can't stand up to 2 months of 30 C plus at 90 percent relative humidity. Having said that, there are a lot of traditional cotton clothes in Japan and I have found that they are surprisingly comfortable. However, they are expensive. Probably those details you are talking about ;-) Practically all of the cheap clothes I know of are synthetic blends. I'd give one other small piece of advice: buy clothes in areas that are famous for the weather you want to feel good in. Anybody wants a nice, not-bulky, warm winter coat: buy it in Canada. You want a nice summer suit for 100 degree F weather? Taiwan. You want a sweater for those cold rainy days? Scotland.
samstave 7y ago
I heard the emperor is working on this....

by fouc 7y ago

on_and_off 7y ago

Garments are so complex ! It still has so many handmade parts in the process and stuff that sound simple when you don't understand it like sizing is actually very complex (and not solved IMO). To answer your question, even between 2 100% cotton shirts, depending on the density of the cotton used, its type, and the way it is weaved, 2 cotton shirts can be radically different.

dhd415 7y ago

The weave is very important, but is one of the easier things to determine. For example, a voile (though uncommon in men's shirts) is much lighter than a moleskin though you would never find a summer shirt made of the latter. As someone who also sweats freely, I sympathize with you. If wearing a single shirt, I tend to go with a darker color for that reason. If wearing a dress shirt, I'll always wear an undershirt with it. There was a semi-famous US Army study about thicker cotton shirts feeling cooler in the heat since they can absorb more of your sweat than a thinner shirt. I can't attest to its accuracy. I wear them so I don't look like I just came in out of the rain.

mikekchar 7y ago
I can attest to the sweaty undershirt argument. It was a revelation for me. The other really strange thing is that if you have a sweaty undershirt, you will sweat less because you will be cooler. It's really amazing.

bacon_waffle 7y ago

> I hate the complete lack of transparency in garments. Visiting HN for a reset after a frustrating meeting, this line is exactly what I needed. Thanks :).

jay_kyburz 7y ago

What's even more frustrating is that its impossible to find even a brand that uses good quality fabrics all the time. Even expensive outdoor gear can be hit and miss.

FDSGSG 7y ago
Loro Piana (the clothing brand) is rather expensive but you will not often (ever?) run into poor quality fabrics in their stores.
- jansan 7y ago
  There is just no way that a 625$ price tag for a polo shirt can be justified by the product's quality.
  - FDSGSG 7y ago
    Loro Piana cotton polo shirts are definitely not worth the price, the 645$ cotton/linen "jeans" definitely are. Nothing by Loro Piana is bad, lots of the stuff is overpriced but many things are quite reasonable. After the LVMH acquisition they regularly offer pretty great discounts too. I just bought one of these jackets (in yellow) for 1000 euros, an absolute bargain. https://us.loropiana.com/en/p/Man/Jackets/Sweater-Jacket-FAE8388?colorCode=W000 https://us.loropiana.com/en/p/Man/Jackets/Sweater-Jacket-FAE...
nextos 7y ago
Hope is not completely lost. Some crazy Japanese companies produce stuff with unbelievably good fabrics all the time. E.g. The Real McCoy's, Buzz Rickson, Studio D'Artisan and a few others. For cotton, many of their models are loopwheeled which is a fantastic low tension fabric that ages really well. All they are doing is to copy American techniques from the golden age of workwear and sportswear. In fact, they try to produce perfect reproductions. Modern streetwear brands like Outlier and Acronym are also really good. I love Ventile cotton as it's natural and fairly rain resistant. You can find several brands that use Ventile made by Stotz in Switzerland in coats. For pants, if you don't like denim German Ripsmoleskin is fantastic. Finally, knitwear from Inis Meain and SNS Herning is machine produced but absolutely fantastic. Expensive but not insane prices like some superb Italian brands. All these brands I mentioned are really high quality. Plus the production process and materials employed are really transparent. There are many others with different styles I would also trust like Merz B Schwanen, Maison Margiela or SEH Kelly.

jancsika 7y ago

> We need to know all the details, including the weave? You don't. In fact I'd argue that having access to the details makes you more likely to both choose the wrong garment and rationalize that wrong choice. > For someone that sweats a lot in hot & humid climates, why does one white cotton shirt show the sweat, and another doesn't? Branch one of this answer includes all kinds of details about thread count, thread length, thread quality, and all kinds of other details for you to get lost in. Branch two: don't wear cotton in hot & humid climates. > Why do I feel cooler with a thicker cotton shirt than a thinner one? Branch one includes all kinds of wonderful details about the way in which cotton wicks moisture but does a poor job of evaporating that same moisture. (Your thin cotton shirt sucks up your perspiration to arrive at the "moisture traffic jam" much sooner than your thicker one.) Branch two: don't wear cotton in hot & humid climates. Synthetic, bamboo, and even light merino tee shirts will all perform so much better that the difference between thin and thick cotton will become thermal noise by comparison (pun!). Seriously, don't learn the details. I can't tell you how many times I've had pointless conversations about the differences between various proprietary waterproof breathable membranes to people who are using the rain jacket exclusively in the Southeastern U.S. (Hint: none of them will do a decent job of being breathable there. So just pick one, unzip the vents under the arms and get on with your day.) Edit: clarification

mikekchar 7y ago
> don't wear cotton in hot & humid climates I seriously had to LOL at this. When I first moved to Japan, I was clueless. I live in a particularly hot and sunny part of Japan. During the rainy season, we sometimes have rain every day for a month (like this year :-P). It took having my clothes literally rot on the line before I understood this point. My predecessor (government program rotates foreigners to teach English) was famous for going to events with a shirt stained green from mould. It's the very first thing I tell people when they come here: don't wear cotton. There are much better natural fibres for this weather. You can also have cotton synthetic blends and they won't rot. The clothes that work well in the UK and most parts of North America can't stand up to 2 months of 30 C plus at 90 percent relative humidity. Having said that, there are a lot of traditional cotton clothes in Japan and I have found that they are surprisingly comfortable. However, they are expensive. Probably those details you are talking about ;-) Practically all of the cheap clothes I know of are synthetic blends. I'd give one other small piece of advice: buy clothes in areas that are famous for the weather you want to feel good in. Anybody wants a nice, not-bulky, warm winter coat: buy it in Canada. You want a nice summer suit for 100 degree F weather? Taiwan. You want a sweater for those cold rainy days? Scotland.

samstave 7y ago

I heard the emperor is working on this....