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Peter Thiel wrote about it back in 2014 in his book, Zero to One. We have a different image of China and China has done a great job posing as next superpower b

Peter Thiel wrote about it back in 2014 in his book, Zero to One. We have a different image of China and China has done a great job posing as next superpower but the reality is very different on the ground. Rich Chinese want to get away from China by paying whatever price they can afford, this is not surprising at all!

paulsutter 7y ago
China really is the next superpower AND some Chinese are interested in having a lily pad outside China that they can hop to. No conflict between these. Lots of Americans have second passports, including Peter Thiel.
- z2 7y ago
  A nuance here is that China's nationality laws forbid dual-citizenship and border officials have been (anecdotally) cracking down on it in recent years. There are a lot of grey areas in enforcement, and I'm not sure how it would play out for the rich and powerful, but the general idea is that once you get a second passport, the first one ceases to exist, along with one's hukou, right to property and capital, etc. Thus, as with other countries that don't allow dual citizenship (e.g., Japan, India, Austria, Malaysia, Singapore) getting another nationality is probably a stronger exit signal. Of course, most schemes start by giving permanent residency, which is different and sort of the best of both worlds.
  - f00_ 7y ago
    The US doesn't allow dual-citizenship either right? My girlfriend and her family have Taiwanese, Chinese and US citizenship/passports though. Wonder how that works
    - 24gttghh 7y ago
      https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/travel-legal-considerations/Advice-about-Possible-Loss-of-US-Nationality-Dual-Nationality/Dual-Nationality.html https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/travel-lega... No such restriction exists at least generally.
    - NikolaNovak 7y ago
      IANAL but strictly speaking, it doesn't, legally. It may, practically, until/unless systems, trackers and docs catch up with each other...
      - NikolaNovak 7y ago
        apparently, I was quite wrong: https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/travel-legal-considerations/Advice-about-Possible-Loss-of-US-Nationality-Dual-Nationality/Dual-Nationality.html https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/travel-lega...
    - koolba 7y ago
      The US does allow it. https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/travel-legal-considerations/Advice-about-Possible-Loss-of-US-Nationality-Dual-Nationality/Dual-Nationality.html https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/travel-lega...
    - CharlesColeman 7y ago
      > The US doesn't allow dual-citizenship either right? The US allows dual citizenship: https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/dual-citizenship-allowed-naturalizing-us-citizens.html https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/dual-citizenship-all... > The United States will not ask naturalizing citizens to take any steps to formally renounce the citizenship of their home country. Nor will it stop U.S. citizens from later adopting citizenship in another country – though if their intention is to give up U.S. citizenship, they can certainly do so. You may continue to vote in your home country, if it allows it. > All this does not mean that the U.S. will tolerate divided loyalties. Dual citizens must obey U.S. laws, uphold the U.S. Constitution, and in every other way adhere to the naturalization oath that they take. They are also required by the I.N.A. to carry their U.S. passport when leaving the U.S., and to present it upon reentry.
      - dmurray 7y ago
        There's a bit of doublespeak going on here. What could they mean by "take any steps to formally renounce their citizenship" that doesn't include (from the naturalization oath): > I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen;... They won't require you to formally tell the other country you are renouncing it, which is good enough for practical purposes, since most other countries don't allow you to renounce your citizenship simply by telling some US bureaucrat you renounce and abjure it.
        techsupporter 7y ago
        What the State Department (probably, I don't work for them) means is that naturalizing as a United States citizen may be done with no input from a person's other country of citizenship. Contrast with, for example, Germany, wherein a naturalization certificate may not be delivered to an applicant before the applicant shows that he or she affirmatively renounced any other citizenships or received permission from the German government to proceed with naturalization absent that step being taken.
- qserasera 7y ago
  Agreed. It's also an easy vector for foreign states to become 'addicted' to investment money generated from their industrial base and I.P. 'borrowing.'
- introvertmac 7y ago
  China has the population and to some extent tech advantages but the Chinese government is very strict, unpredictable and favor individuals who are on their side. Not everyone has an equal opportunity to make it big in China. If you care about freedom and a better future for your children, make money and move out!
markdown 7y ago
Peter Thiel is a crook who conned the New Zealand government into giving him citizenship and then never showed up in the way he said he would. He has no credibility when it comes to immigration. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/indepth/national/how-peter-thiel-got-new-zealand-citizenship/ https://www.nzherald.co.nz/indepth/national/how-peter-thiel-...
- jetrink 7y ago
  Not that I agree or disagree, but that is simply an ad hominem attack.
  - markdown 7y ago
    Calling something an ad hominem attack doesn't make it less valid in the context of the discussion. This is a thread about immigration. If Thiel's opinions on immigration are to be considered, then his own behaviour in that regard are absolutely relevant.
    - dragonwriter 7y ago
      > This is a thread about immigration. If Thiel's opinions on immigration are to be considered, then his own behaviour in that regard are absolutely relevant. No, it's not. It might be germane if (1) his behavior demonstrated that he was particylt untrustworthy on this topic and (2) fact claims were being made that could only be accepted based on trusting Thiel. It might also be germane if we were discussing the credibility of his claim to believe in the position he lays out rather than the merits of that position (this is actual a special case of the preceding.) It's also potentially useful as a filter as to whether it's worthwhile to both considering his opinions and participating in the discussion in the first place; many fallacies are pragmatically useful in terms of whittling down the universe of ideas to decide which one are more likely to ve worth spending more time analyzing. But once you jump into the discussion on the merits, well, there is a reason fallacies have been identified.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
mc32 7y ago
The gov sometimes has these campaigns that sweep through and affect both guilty and innocent. Some try to keep a “get out of jail card” so to speak, if need ever be. That’s what much of this is.
sangnoir 7y ago
Would this the same Peter Thiel who bought himself[1] a New Zealand citizenship, just in case things go south in his home country? Sounds like an expert on that playbook. 1. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/indepth/national/how-peter-thiel-got-new-zealand-citizenship/ https://www.nzherald.co.nz/indepth/national/how-peter-thiel-...

paulsutter 7y ago

China really is the next superpower AND some Chinese are interested in having a lily pad outside China that they can hop to. No conflict between these. Lots of Americans have second passports, including Peter Thiel.

z2 7y ago
A nuance here is that China's nationality laws forbid dual-citizenship and border officials have been (anecdotally) cracking down on it in recent years. There are a lot of grey areas in enforcement, and I'm not sure how it would play out for the rich and powerful, but the general idea is that once you get a second passport, the first one ceases to exist, along with one's hukou, right to property and capital, etc. Thus, as with other countries that don't allow dual citizenship (e.g., Japan, India, Austria, Malaysia, Singapore) getting another nationality is probably a stronger exit signal. Of course, most schemes start by giving permanent residency, which is different and sort of the best of both worlds.
- f00_ 7y ago
  The US doesn't allow dual-citizenship either right? My girlfriend and her family have Taiwanese, Chinese and US citizenship/passports though. Wonder how that works
  - 24gttghh 7y ago
    https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/travel-legal-considerations/Advice-about-Possible-Loss-of-US-Nationality-Dual-Nationality/Dual-Nationality.html https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/travel-lega... No such restriction exists at least generally.
  - NikolaNovak 7y ago
    IANAL but strictly speaking, it doesn't, legally. It may, practically, until/unless systems, trackers and docs catch up with each other...
    - NikolaNovak 7y ago
      apparently, I was quite wrong: https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/travel-legal-considerations/Advice-about-Possible-Loss-of-US-Nationality-Dual-Nationality/Dual-Nationality.html https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/travel-lega...
  - koolba 7y ago
    The US does allow it. https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/travel-legal-considerations/Advice-about-Possible-Loss-of-US-Nationality-Dual-Nationality/Dual-Nationality.html https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/travel-lega...
  - CharlesColeman 7y ago
    > The US doesn't allow dual-citizenship either right? The US allows dual citizenship: https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/dual-citizenship-allowed-naturalizing-us-citizens.html https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/dual-citizenship-all... > The United States will not ask naturalizing citizens to take any steps to formally renounce the citizenship of their home country. Nor will it stop U.S. citizens from later adopting citizenship in another country – though if their intention is to give up U.S. citizenship, they can certainly do so. You may continue to vote in your home country, if it allows it. > All this does not mean that the U.S. will tolerate divided loyalties. Dual citizens must obey U.S. laws, uphold the U.S. Constitution, and in every other way adhere to the naturalization oath that they take. They are also required by the I.N.A. to carry their U.S. passport when leaving the U.S., and to present it upon reentry.
    - dmurray 7y ago
      There's a bit of doublespeak going on here. What could they mean by "take any steps to formally renounce their citizenship" that doesn't include (from the naturalization oath): > I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen;... They won't require you to formally tell the other country you are renouncing it, which is good enough for practical purposes, since most other countries don't allow you to renounce your citizenship simply by telling some US bureaucrat you renounce and abjure it.
      - techsupporter 7y ago
        What the State Department (probably, I don't work for them) means is that naturalizing as a United States citizen may be done with no input from a person's other country of citizenship. Contrast with, for example, Germany, wherein a naturalization certificate may not be delivered to an applicant before the applicant shows that he or she affirmatively renounced any other citizenships or received permission from the German government to proceed with naturalization absent that step being taken.
qserasera 7y ago
Agreed. It's also an easy vector for foreign states to become 'addicted' to investment money generated from their industrial base and I.P. 'borrowing.'
introvertmac 7y ago
China has the population and to some extent tech advantages but the Chinese government is very strict, unpredictable and favor individuals who are on their side. Not everyone has an equal opportunity to make it big in China. If you care about freedom and a better future for your children, make money and move out!

markdown 7y ago

Peter Thiel is a crook who conned the New Zealand government into giving him citizenship and then never showed up in the way he said he would. He has no credibility when it comes to immigration. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/indepth/national/how-peter-thiel-got-new-zealand-citizenship/ https://www.nzherald.co.nz/indepth/national/how-peter-thiel-...

jetrink 7y ago
Not that I agree or disagree, but that is simply an ad hominem attack.
- markdown 7y ago
  Calling something an ad hominem attack doesn't make it less valid in the context of the discussion. This is a thread about immigration. If Thiel's opinions on immigration are to be considered, then his own behaviour in that regard are absolutely relevant.
  - dragonwriter 7y ago
    > This is a thread about immigration. If Thiel's opinions on immigration are to be considered, then his own behaviour in that regard are absolutely relevant. No, it's not. It might be germane if (1) his behavior demonstrated that he was particylt untrustworthy on this topic and (2) fact claims were being made that could only be accepted based on trusting Thiel. It might also be germane if we were discussing the credibility of his claim to believe in the position he lays out rather than the merits of that position (this is actual a special case of the preceding.) It's also potentially useful as a filter as to whether it's worthwhile to both considering his opinions and participating in the discussion in the first place; many fallacies are pragmatically useful in terms of whittling down the universe of ideas to decide which one are more likely to ve worth spending more time analyzing. But once you jump into the discussion on the merits, well, there is a reason fallacies have been identified.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]

mc32 7y ago

The gov sometimes has these campaigns that sweep through and affect both guilty and innocent. Some try to keep a “get out of jail card” so to speak, if need ever be. That’s what much of this is.

sangnoir 7y ago

Would this the same Peter Thiel who bought himself[1] a New Zealand citizenship, just in case things go south in his home country? Sounds like an expert on that playbook. 1. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/indepth/national/how-peter-thiel-got-new-zealand-citizenship/ https://www.nzherald.co.nz/indepth/national/how-peter-thiel-...