10 ms·
How Microsoft made it harder to create Windows 10 local accounts
- izzydata 7y agoI noticed this just the other day when I reset a windows 10 PC I obtained from someone and tried to make a local account. I made the mistake of connecting to the wifi and even after restarting the computer in an attempt to restart the initial setup process it refused to take me to the internet connection screen so that I could tell it to not connect to wifi. I could have possibly taken my internet offline entirely, but I ended up using a fake Microsoft account and then switching to a local account after the setup was complete. This change really needs to be reversed. Forcing Microsoft accounts on people is unacceptable.
- tracker1 7y agoAbsolutely agreed... while I think that online accounts are probably better for most users, it's horrible to make it this hard to create a local account.
- jimbo1qaz 7y agoYou can disable the network adapter from the setup screen. On the setup screen, press Shift+F10 to open cmd. netsh interface show interface netsh interface set interface "YOUR-ADAPTER-NAME" disable
- godshatter 7y agoInteresting that my main reason for wanting a local account was not mentioned. Privacy. I simply don't want my files saved on Microsoft's servers. Some files, sure, I can put those in the cloud to make life easier. Other files, no, not unless I can ensure they are encrypted and I'm the only one with the key. It's not like I'm doing illegal things. I just don't trust corporations and I feel that they shouldn't expect to see everything I do.
- darkpuma 7y ago20 years ago, software that included advertisements was called adware, and it was widely considered to be a form of malware. And software that sent out telemetry without the informed opt-in consent of the user was considered spyware, another form of malware. Windows 10 is doing both of these today, but mainstream expectations for how software should behave have severely degraded. I fear the situation will not improve unless the public can be 're-educated', but a company with the brand recognition and legacy of Microsoft participating in these practices goes a long way towards further normalizing it.
- alxlaz 7y agoIt's not even "just" about privacy. I find the idea that "preferences, password, and files are stored in the cloud and carry over to new devices" a bit unsettling in terms of security and trust. I am reasonably convinced that Microsoft isn't snooping on me, not at a level of detail that would bother me anyway. I'm sure they have the tools to do so if they want, but I'm not an US citizen, not doing anything illegal, not involved in anything shady or uncomfortable for the US government or its allies (which includes my country, for that matter) -- I think it's unlikely enough that I'll ever be a target. But. Microsoft, and its cloud servers, are a really big target. It's the holy grail of ID theft. Do I trust Microsoft to safeguard my passwords, preferences and files against attacks, not just today, but over the next ten or twenty years, at a time when Windows isn't really the focus of their business anymore? I'm gonna say a pretty big no to that. Even if I were convinced they had only good intentions (let's say they do) about this stuff, so did Yahoo, and LinkedIn, and Adobe and countless other vendors who eventually ended up with huge data breaches. Do I have any guarantees that, twenty years from now, Microsoft's personal data storage systems won't give way, between budget cuts, incompetent management (twenty years is a long time, maybe Satya Nadella's successor is going to be worse than Steve Ballmer...), technical debt and increasing capabilities from malicious actors? Can I be sure that Microsoft is never going to lower their security standards? That they won't make any compromises that they aren't willing to do today, even, say, if they were on the verge of bankruptcy? Granted, I have neither the budget, nor the security know-how that Microsoft does, but I'm not that big a target, either, nor do I store my data on systems that are accessible 24/7 from anywhere in the world. My passwords aren't too valuable -- for all the reasons that make me unimportant to Microsoft + a bunch of other ones (I'm not that rich, I'm not friends with any celebrity etc. etc.). The costs involved in getting access to my data remotely far outweigh any benefits -- which can't be said for Microsoft's treasure trove of personal data.
- AlexandrB 7y agoAnother example of “nonconsensual computing” from Microsoft. I don’t know what I’m going to do once Windows 7 reaches end-of-life next year.
- mschuster91 7y agoHmm. Is there any comparison in features between the "normal" w10 and whatever the latest version of Windows Server is? At least a server shouldn't nag its admins with crapware and ads.
- Neil44 7y agoYou're not going to believe this but it's broadly similar, you get Candy Crush etc. preinstalled on Windows Server 2019. Yes you read that right.
- stallmanite 7y agoOnly a matter of time before Linux starts losing market share in servers because they can’t run Candy Crush. FOSS always playing catch up. Big /s
- bitwize 7y agoWORKAROUND: apt-get install gweled
- morrbo 7y agoAnd the telemetry. I use server 2016 as my daily driver. I swear to god that there are issues with non domain joined GPO preferences. I've 100% had it reboot on me even when using sconfig to disable (download updates) and GPO to disable restarts. If I didn't have to use Windows I wouldn't, but I'm kind of stuck. Other than these issues from a usability pov and stability I really can't complain, it has been pretty great.
- Wowfunhappy 7y agoTheres a much better option than Windows Server: Windows 10 LTSC/LTSB. Unfortunately, if you're not a huge enterprise, there's no legal way to acquire it...
- jackewiehose 7y agoWindows 10 is a sad joke of an operating system. It does not even deserve the name "operating system". An operating system should be able to operate the system for weeks without automatic reboots. An operating system should never ever just wake up from sleep on its own to install updates (with the potential to set my house on fire if the laptop is in a bag or something). An operating system should not lie to it's users and trick them to sign up for online-cloud-stuff.
- lghh 7y agoI dislike Windows 10 for all of these reasons, but why does that mean it doesn't deserve the name of "operating system"?
- jackewiehose 7y agoIt could be confused with real operating systems like windows 7 or linux.
- rgoulter 7y agoNo, Linux is the kernel. What you're referring to is etc.
- jackewiehose 7y agoI was referring to GNU/Linux but I'm sure it was understood anyway.
- CNJ7654 7y agoI'd just like to interject for a moment. What you're referring to as Linux, is in fact, GNU/Linux, or as I've recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning GNU system made useful by the GNU corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX. Many computer users run a modified version of the GNU system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of GNU which is widely used today is often called "Linux", and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the GNU system, developed by the GNU Project. There really is a Linux, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the system they use. Linux is the kernel: the program in the system that allocates the machine's resources to the other programs that you run. The kernel is an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete operating system. Linux is normally used in combination with the GNU operating system: the whole system is basically GNU with Linux added, or GNU/Linux. All the so-called "Linux" distributions are really distributions of GNU/Linux.
- Neil44 7y agoIt's easier on Pro, you get a Domain login option which just creates you a local account for you to use to get your machine domain joined, even if you're connected to the internet already. The main reason for me to use local accounts is as an IT professional I'm often setting things up for other people who aren't present at the time. Also if I set a Microsoft account up for someone then in their mind I am usually then the contact for any and all issues around that account forever which creates tension in my customer relationship.
- ocdtrekkie 7y agoThis is the source of another huge peeve though: Microsoft's developers have largely forgotten local Windows domains exist, as selecting that the computer belongs to an organization defaults to Azure sign-in, and then dumps you off on creating a normal local account if you say "local domain instead". The OOBE doesn't help with local domain setup at all for no conceivable reason. Similarly, if you look at the new Settings app, it's support for domain PCs is close to nonexistent. Out of disk space, and going to the storage tab? Great, it'll tell you 50 GB of data is used by other users, but you can't see anything about who they are. Need to manage other users? No can do, Settings app doesn't even see domain accounts. You have to go to the legacy Control Panel, System, Advanced Settings, and then User Profiles (a Windows 98 era dialog) to see domain accounts and their local storage use.
- Neil44 7y agoYep it's a pain to go and find your way to the join domain options these days. It certainly shows you the way Microsoft is thinking about these things. Domains with GPOs were a really sweet way to manage everything but MS have realised they can nickel and dime you to replicate the same functionality on a subscription model with Azure ADDS, so bend over boys. All MS's stuff feels half finished these days. I believe they call it 'high feature velocity'.
- ape4 7y agoWhat happens to a Microsoft login when you aren't online?
- oblio 7y agoPresumably the same thing that happens with AD, there's some local caching of sorts.
- withinrafael 7y agoA local account is still created and used to log into the machine.
- alteria 7y agoThat whole flow is one of the insistent dark patterns I've seen so far. I mean providing barely visible text that masquerades as an opt-out button is one thing, but only allowing local account creation if you're offline is a next level.
- starsinspace 7y agoI really don’t understand Microsoft on this and related stuff like the forced telemetry. Why are they doing it? Is the little bit of user data really that valuable? Is it worth it to piss off so many of their users? Are they aware how it makes privacy-focussed Apple and Linux alternatives seem more appealing? It’s sad because from a technology and UI perspective, I really like Win 10. But they just have to ruin it somehow...
- seieste 7y agoThe user experience doesn’t matter that much, because the primary target of Windows is businesses, governments, etc. who buy in bulk and can be persuaded by Microsoft sales teams. Considering that Mac systems (the only alternative with support for Excel and Word) are so much more expensive than comparable Windows systems, and it’s clear why companies use Windows. And that doesn’t even take into account that most consumers are entirely unaware of the privacy implications of telemetry and online accounts. So, Microsoft can just get away with this kind of stuff.
- Stratoscope 7y agoI use a Microsoft account and OneDrive, but when I set up a new machine, I always create a local account first and then later connect it to my Microsoft account. The reason I do it this way is so I can choose my own home directory name. I want it to be C:\Users\Mike, not something based on my email address.
- vbezhenar 7y agoJust turn off the Internet while you're installing Windows. No Internet, no clouds.
- Wowfunhappy 7y agoAccording to the article, this was quite literally the only way to create a local account at setup in 1809. That shouldn't happen.
- temac 7y agoIs forcing the use of online account compliant with GDPR? If not (or unsure), how do we report it?
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- Trias11 7y ago+1 Microsoft needs to be publicly shamed for dark patterns like these. No MSFT or AAPL or GOOG clouds for me. Allow me to choose my own cloud setup. This will be automated local encryption, versioning, compresion and Wasabi cloud. And yes, local admin account on Win 10 Pro
- OnlyRepliesToBS 7y agoholy shit, they've completely ruined their kernel
- danShumway 7y agoAnother downside -- creating a Microsoft account means agreeing to more arduous terms than you would if you only installed Windows locally. Just as one example, a Windows EULA (last time I checked) does not include an arbitration agreement, and a Microsoft account does. Using an online account isn't just an inconvenience or a privacy risk for the "paranoid" -- you're just flat-out giving up your rights by signing up.
- antif 7y agoCan Chrome OS get some of this criticism too?? Trying to setup one of those without a Google account taking 'ownership' of the machine first... isn't possible.
- _trampeltier 7y agoAndroid too. I can't make guest accounts on my phone .. the menu for it is just missing on my phone .. no idea why
- graycat 7y agoI've been using Windows 10 for about 18 months now and, really, from the article, I have NO idea what the heck they are talking about. The problem is typical: The article uses ordinary words from a standard English dictionary but uses them in new ways not in the dictionary and not yet common. A word used in this way is a term and needs motivation, explanation, discussion, examples, and, at the least, definition -- and the article has NONE of these. So, to start, in what sense is a "local account" or "Microsoft account" an account at all? Does it cost money? Do I get account statements? Do I get invoices? Are there return privileges? What products or services are involved? I'm about totally to blow my stack in frustration -- what the heck is an "account"???????? Then let's continue with "local" and "Microsoft" .... In particular, with a "Microsoft account", what passes between us, from me to them or from them to me? What the heck is going on? Me to them? Of COURSE, I want Microsoft to know as little as possible about what I am doing in life, computing, with Windows 10, etc. -- all that is just NONE of their business to know. Does someone actually understand what these "accounts" are all about? The article is less clear than mud, and apparently it is clear as air compared with Microsoft. Soooo, I canNOT be nearly the only one who doesn't know. So, can someone explain and get the rest of us caught up?
- chucky 7y agoThis article has found fascinating new levels of click-baiting. The title is: > How Microsoft made it harder to create Windows 10 local accounts The faded out subtitle is: > The company eases up a bit with the May 2019 Update, however. The article then goes on to describe at length how complicated the process used to be, and how evil Microsoft is for how having it so complicated. Then suddenly it ends with a few lines describing how it is much simpler now. I guess the amount of clicks on the article "How the latest Windows 10 update allows for easier creation of local accounts" would be much lower.
- Wowfunhappy 7y agoThe real question is, why wasn't this article written three months ago? Maybe it was reported at the time, but I certainly never heard about it. Even now, I think it's more than worthwhile to look at what Microsoft did in version 1809. Completely removing the option to create a local account at setup without disconnecting from the internet is clearly user-hostile. That Microsoft would ship Windows in that state is abhorrent, even if they're fixing it now.
- jaclaz 7y agoYep, normally when there is a sentence like: >We originally discovered the issue with an October 2018 Update (version 1809) PC. We found similar setup experiences on two different machines by different manufacturers. Ther is a link to a reference, unless "they" dicovered it and told nobody.
- jimmaswell 7y agoI've set up Windows 10 computers multiple times spanning the past two years or so and making a local account was never hard or complicated. With the ethernet plugged in each time. Strange that what the article shows never happened to me.
- Wowfunhappy 7y agoAre you sure you were using a non-enterprise edition of Windows 10 1809?
- thom 7y agoI’ve been logged in with my son’s email address attached to my local account for almost a year. I get weekly screen time emails from Microsoft about myself. Apparently I am supposed to create a new account and delete this one after copying everything over. I feel at a certain point with Windows you just have to let it wash over you, like a force of nature.
- oscargrouch 7y agoThe current trends on Browsers and OS´s is one of the things that drive me to try to create first what the next iteration over a platform like browsers, based on organic p2p tecnologies should look like, and then iterate a little more and create a optional OS on top of it. I hope that in a couple of months i can launch this platform here on HN so i can see what you all think, as i have a great respect for the community formed here. But we need to not rely on companies that tend to make a profit from the cloud computing, analitics, big data and of what people make and publish for free, if we really want to have our privacy and our freedoms in general, respected in the end. Anyone that can sum 2 + 2 can see how this can lead to severe consequences into our private lives, and civil liberties in the end if we keep following this path. As we might be only depending of the good will of the status-quo that can change depending on the political context of du-jour. (And i must remind you all that this good will and the more generous environment might reach to an end, as the circustances may lead to economical and political crysis, environmental crysis, shortage of primary resources, political instabilities, war, or just a simple power-hungry drive to control all things) The problem is that only the political/social point of view is not enough, as we need to respond with a technology good enough, or even better, in a way the end users, and the devs will be naturally inclined to use the platform to reach their own personal goals. And it´s my believe that organic, p2p forms of content distribution and communication in general, can deliver a superior environment compared to what we have today with browsers. And even if the big players could create themselves this kind of platform, they would not want to, because in the end they are trying to reach absolute control of our data, and our digital representation of life. The trick is to have the right building blocks carefully combined to make it work in a way that it will make people want to develop for it from the perspective of the devs, and to use it as a medium from the perspective of the users.
- KayL 7y agoAnd they asked you to set a 4-numbers PIN to login. (nums by default)