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I have a hypothesis related to this. I believe that surviving being a child refugee in America is something that really brings out the grit in a person. Seeing

I have a hypothesis related to this. I believe that surviving being a child refugee in America is something that really brings out the grit in a person. Seeing the things your family goes through to provide a normal life for you in a strange and new place, overcoming ethnic biases, language barriers, and life on government assistance really brings out the attitudes of drive and perseverance toward reaching one's goals. I'd be curious to see how the likeliness of refugees to reach higher income brackets over their lives compares to native-born Americans.

hartator 7y ago
Andy Grove came in the US at 20. He was never on government assistance nor saw his family having to adapt to a new place.
- testvox 7y ago
  He may have acquired his grit through other means, in his words: > By the time I was twenty, I had lived through a Hungarian Fascist dictatorship, German military occupation, the Nazis' "Final Solution," the siege of Budapest by the Soviet Red Army, a period of chaotic democracy in the years immediately after the war, a variety of repressive Communist regimes, and a popular uprising that was put down at gunpoint... [where] many young people were killed; countless others were interned. Some two hundred thousand Hungarians escaped to the West. I was one of them.
  - cronix 7y ago
    I'd be really curious about his viewpoints on the current US political landscape, considering he experienced real, actual fascism and not the label everyone throws around willy-nilly trying to tar and feather each other. Personally, whenever I hear the terms racist or fascist thrown around, racism and fascism never actually enter my mind, or at least extremely rarely. I just think "Oh, another person who disagrees with someone else," because that's how the words are used in modern day politics. The words have lost their actual meaning to me due to their incorrect usage, and over saturation of their usage. You can only cry wolf so much.
    - danharaj 7y ago
      If the only time you can recognize fascists is when they already have power, then you are completely helpless at preventing fascists from attaining that power. There are always fascists. Some people who "throw around" that word have correctly identified them, perhaps others are mistaken. Surely it is up to you to figure who's figured it out if you would like to prevent fascists from seizing power.
    - toiletfuneral 7y ago
      Because putting a certain race in literal concentration camps isn’t fascism but just different opinions.
      - merpnderp 7y ago
        People losing their minds over this would sound a lot more sincere and principled if they'd been even half as upset about Obama placing kids in actual cages with a much higher per capita death rate. Now they just sound like ideologues grinding a political axe. But maybe that's just my differing opinion.
        pjc50 7y ago
        [citation needed] - were the Republicans complaining about this at the time?
        ilikehurdles 7y ago
        The policy before Trump was to hold children who arrive unaccompanied at the border and find their family to reunite them with. The policy under Trump is a zero-tolerance separate all children from their parents policy. Trump HHS currently cannot account for around 6000 children they have separated. This is new. The new rules around immigration seem to be focused around overwhelming the system's capacity for processing people fairly and with proper oversight. Obama's immigration policies were criticised by liberals (as were many other aspects of his presidency, or are we going to rewrite history to state that OWS was just a public Obama fan-club gathering?). They were even outed by left-leaning publications and subject to a documentary on PBS. Back on the topic of the comment you shifted away from - "deporting" in US-speak means sending people to a private prison where detainees are effectively forced to work, but without even allowing the accused their fair time in court. At some point after that they might get sent back to another country.
- ilikehurdles 7y ago
  I was just speaking from my own experience; but I'm sorry about how I phrased my comment. I never mentioned that in my comment and it can be easily read as referring directly about Andy Grove (who I know almost nothing about).
- fortran77 7y ago
  I think his family had to do a great deal of adapting when their whole life was turned upside down. From his Wikipedia Biography: > When he was eight, the Nazis occupied Hungary and deported nearly 500,000 Jews to concentration camps, including Auschwitz. Its commandant, Rudolf Höss, said at his trial that he killed 400,000 Hungarian Jews in three months.[9] To avoid being arrested, Grove and his mother took on false identities and were sheltered by friends.[7] His father, however, was arrested and taken to an Eastern Labor Camp to do forced labor, and was reunited with his family only after the war.[10] > During the Hungarian Revolution of 1956, when he was 20, he left his home and family and escaped across the border into Austria. Penniless and barely able to speak English, in 1957 he eventually made his way to the United States. He later changed his name to the anglicized Andrew S. Grove.[1][11] Grove summarized his first twenty years of life in Hungary in his memoirs: > By the time I was twenty, I had lived through a Hungarian Fascist dictatorship, German military occupation, the Nazis' "Final Solution," the siege of Budapest by the Soviet Red Army, a period of chaotic democracy in the years immediately after the war, a variety of repressive Communist regimes, and a popular uprising that was put down at gunpoint... [where] many young people were killed; countless others were interned. Some two hundred thousand Hungarians escaped to the West. I was one of them.[1]
bluecalm 7y ago
Or maybe those people feel grateful to escape hell they experienced home and take advantage of all the opportunities America provides for them? That's surely true for part of my family that emigrated to US. You kinda feel you get a new shot at life if you suddenly find yourself in a country so rich, full of opportunities and free as USA, especially if you came from war zone or a communist country.

hartator 7y ago

Andy Grove came in the US at 20. He was never on government assistance nor saw his family having to adapt to a new place.

testvox 7y ago
He may have acquired his grit through other means, in his words: > By the time I was twenty, I had lived through a Hungarian Fascist dictatorship, German military occupation, the Nazis' "Final Solution," the siege of Budapest by the Soviet Red Army, a period of chaotic democracy in the years immediately after the war, a variety of repressive Communist regimes, and a popular uprising that was put down at gunpoint... [where] many young people were killed; countless others were interned. Some two hundred thousand Hungarians escaped to the West. I was one of them.
- cronix 7y ago
  I'd be really curious about his viewpoints on the current US political landscape, considering he experienced real, actual fascism and not the label everyone throws around willy-nilly trying to tar and feather each other. Personally, whenever I hear the terms racist or fascist thrown around, racism and fascism never actually enter my mind, or at least extremely rarely. I just think "Oh, another person who disagrees with someone else," because that's how the words are used in modern day politics. The words have lost their actual meaning to me due to their incorrect usage, and over saturation of their usage. You can only cry wolf so much.
  - danharaj 7y ago
    If the only time you can recognize fascists is when they already have power, then you are completely helpless at preventing fascists from attaining that power. There are always fascists. Some people who "throw around" that word have correctly identified them, perhaps others are mistaken. Surely it is up to you to figure who's figured it out if you would like to prevent fascists from seizing power.
  - toiletfuneral 7y ago
    Because putting a certain race in literal concentration camps isn’t fascism but just different opinions.
    - merpnderp 7y ago
      People losing their minds over this would sound a lot more sincere and principled if they'd been even half as upset about Obama placing kids in actual cages with a much higher per capita death rate. Now they just sound like ideologues grinding a political axe. But maybe that's just my differing opinion.
      - pjc50 7y ago
        [citation needed] - were the Republicans complaining about this at the time?
      - ilikehurdles 7y ago
        The policy before Trump was to hold children who arrive unaccompanied at the border and find their family to reunite them with. The policy under Trump is a zero-tolerance separate all children from their parents policy. Trump HHS currently cannot account for around 6000 children they have separated. This is new. The new rules around immigration seem to be focused around overwhelming the system's capacity for processing people fairly and with proper oversight. Obama's immigration policies were criticised by liberals (as were many other aspects of his presidency, or are we going to rewrite history to state that OWS was just a public Obama fan-club gathering?). They were even outed by left-leaning publications and subject to a documentary on PBS. Back on the topic of the comment you shifted away from - "deporting" in US-speak means sending people to a private prison where detainees are effectively forced to work, but without even allowing the accused their fair time in court. At some point after that they might get sent back to another country.
ilikehurdles 7y ago
I was just speaking from my own experience; but I'm sorry about how I phrased my comment. I never mentioned that in my comment and it can be easily read as referring directly about Andy Grove (who I know almost nothing about).
fortran77 7y ago
I think his family had to do a great deal of adapting when their whole life was turned upside down. From his Wikipedia Biography: > When he was eight, the Nazis occupied Hungary and deported nearly 500,000 Jews to concentration camps, including Auschwitz. Its commandant, Rudolf Höss, said at his trial that he killed 400,000 Hungarian Jews in three months.[9] To avoid being arrested, Grove and his mother took on false identities and were sheltered by friends.[7] His father, however, was arrested and taken to an Eastern Labor Camp to do forced labor, and was reunited with his family only after the war.[10] > During the Hungarian Revolution of 1956, when he was 20, he left his home and family and escaped across the border into Austria. Penniless and barely able to speak English, in 1957 he eventually made his way to the United States. He later changed his name to the anglicized Andrew S. Grove.[1][11] Grove summarized his first twenty years of life in Hungary in his memoirs: > By the time I was twenty, I had lived through a Hungarian Fascist dictatorship, German military occupation, the Nazis' "Final Solution," the siege of Budapest by the Soviet Red Army, a period of chaotic democracy in the years immediately after the war, a variety of repressive Communist regimes, and a popular uprising that was put down at gunpoint... [where] many young people were killed; countless others were interned. Some two hundred thousand Hungarians escaped to the West. I was one of them.[1]

bluecalm 7y ago

Or maybe those people feel grateful to escape hell they experienced home and take advantage of all the opportunities America provides for them? That's surely true for part of my family that emigrated to US. You kinda feel you get a new shot at life if you suddenly find yourself in a country so rich, full of opportunities and free as USA, especially if you came from war zone or a communist country.