4 ms·

When I want to read an article, I don't need a "web application". I want a static page with the text and the pictures. That's it. Not a single line of JavaScrip

When I want to read an article, I don't need a "web application". I want a static page with the text and the pictures. That's it. Not a single line of JavaScript. And certainly absolutely no image lazy-loading nonsense. If my data is that limited, I'd disable images myself in my browser settings, thank you very much. What I'm trying to say is that most of the web isn't really that interactive. It's mostly comprised of content that is static in its nature.

oefrha 7y ago
> If my data is that limited, I'd disable images myself in my browser settings, thank you very much. Yeah, because most visitors to most websites can and know how to disable images in browser settings. In fact, let me know how to do this in iOS Safari. Before you tell me to throw my iPhone and iPad in the trash, get an Android, root the damn phone, install F-droid, compile Chromium with patches, or write my own operating system, now is a good time to stop. I seriously hope this sort of condescending “elitist” bullshit would die off.
- TeMPOraL 7y ago
  > Yeah, because most visitors to most websites can and know how to disable images in browser settings. Maybe they would, if the UX culture of these days wasn't removing every feature that isn't used on every interaction, and then devs wouldn't try to build increasingly complex reimplementations of browser features on each page. In an ideal world, lazy loading of images would be something handled purely by the browsers, and users would be aware how to operate it. The site's job is to declare what it wants to show; the User Agent's job is to decide what to show, when and how. But nah, the web culture prefers to turn browsers into TVs.
- vthriller 7y ago
  > In fact, let me know how to [disable image loading] in iOS Safari Given any browser, how do I reload a lazy-image that failed to load, without resorting to whole page refresh or diving deep into the Web Inspector? Most browsers have a context menu option to reload regular images, but they cannot and will never handle a bunch of dynamic block elements with background-image option.
  - oefrha 7y ago
    Any reasonable img lazyloading implementation should produce plain img tags once loaded. Not sure why you would end up with background-image’d block elements.
    - yellowapple 7y ago
      "once loaded" is the key. If it fails to load, then bummer, no img tag. I'm also not sure about the background-image'd block elements, for what it's worth.
      - oefrha 7y ago
        If it failed to load, it would leave behind an img tag that failed to load, like any non-lazy-loaded image. Unless you’re talking about JavaScript code failing to generate an img tag (e.g. from a data-src attribute), which would be bizarre. Edit: by “once loaded” I meant once loading is triggered, if I wasn’t clear enough.
freehunter 7y ago
>It's mostly comprised of content that is static in its nature Yes, but the readers of the content are not the only customers the site is built for. The people writing and editing content are also consumers of the site. The article isn't (and doesn't have to be) interactive, but the CMS on the backend is. The advertiser's portal is. The reporting dashboards are. Just like how Ruby on Rails is slow but we deal with it because it makes programming so much faster, dynamic websites are slow but we deal with it because it makes their administration so much faster.
- yellowapple 7y ago
  The authoring tools and the published article don't have to (and I'd argue shouldn't) be joined at the hip like that, though. Obviously the editing tools benefit from being JS heavy. That doesn't justify polluting the published article itself with JS (unless the readers are editing the article themselves? Even then, though; Wikipedia seems to get by just fine without trying to replace half my browser with shitty JavaScript code). > Just like how Ruby on Rails is slow but we deal with it Not all of us :)

oefrha 7y ago

> If my data is that limited, I'd disable images myself in my browser settings, thank you very much. Yeah, because most visitors to most websites can and know how to disable images in browser settings. In fact, let me know how to do this in iOS Safari. Before you tell me to throw my iPhone and iPad in the trash, get an Android, root the damn phone, install F-droid, compile Chromium with patches, or write my own operating system, now is a good time to stop. I seriously hope this sort of condescending “elitist” bullshit would die off.

TeMPOraL 7y ago
> Yeah, because most visitors to most websites can and know how to disable images in browser settings. Maybe they would, if the UX culture of these days wasn't removing every feature that isn't used on every interaction, and then devs wouldn't try to build increasingly complex reimplementations of browser features on each page. In an ideal world, lazy loading of images would be something handled purely by the browsers, and users would be aware how to operate it. The site's job is to declare what it wants to show; the User Agent's job is to decide what to show, when and how. But nah, the web culture prefers to turn browsers into TVs.
vthriller 7y ago
> In fact, let me know how to [disable image loading] in iOS Safari Given any browser, how do I reload a lazy-image that failed to load, without resorting to whole page refresh or diving deep into the Web Inspector? Most browsers have a context menu option to reload regular images, but they cannot and will never handle a bunch of dynamic block elements with background-image option.
- oefrha 7y ago
  Any reasonable img lazyloading implementation should produce plain img tags once loaded. Not sure why you would end up with background-image’d block elements.
  - yellowapple 7y ago
    "once loaded" is the key. If it fails to load, then bummer, no img tag. I'm also not sure about the background-image'd block elements, for what it's worth.
    - oefrha 7y ago
      If it failed to load, it would leave behind an img tag that failed to load, like any non-lazy-loaded image. Unless you’re talking about JavaScript code failing to generate an img tag (e.g. from a data-src attribute), which would be bizarre. Edit: by “once loaded” I meant once loading is triggered, if I wasn’t clear enough.

freehunter 7y ago

>It's mostly comprised of content that is static in its nature Yes, but the readers of the content are not the only customers the site is built for. The people writing and editing content are also consumers of the site. The article isn't (and doesn't have to be) interactive, but the CMS on the backend is. The advertiser's portal is. The reporting dashboards are. Just like how Ruby on Rails is slow but we deal with it because it makes programming so much faster, dynamic websites are slow but we deal with it because it makes their administration so much faster.

yellowapple 7y ago
The authoring tools and the published article don't have to (and I'd argue shouldn't) be joined at the hip like that, though. Obviously the editing tools benefit from being JS heavy. That doesn't justify polluting the published article itself with JS (unless the readers are editing the article themselves? Even then, though; Wikipedia seems to get by just fine without trying to replace half my browser with shitty JavaScript code). > Just like how Ruby on Rails is slow but we deal with it Not all of us :)