3 ms·

I once had a boss who asked me to spend my last two weeks writing down everything I knew after working there for 13 years and basically creating the entire 2Mlo

by codr7 7y ago

I once had a boss who asked me to spend my last two weeks writing down everything I knew after working there for 13 years and basically creating the entire 2Mloc system they were happily selling from scratch. That's when I finally realized how much of a clue he really had. And the reason I quit is that he gradually started chasing me around and micromanage my time even though I had been left alone to do my thing since forever, and pretty damn good too. But you can't measure the effect, and suits tend to measure what they can. The effect of leaving was easier to measure, the company folded about a year later.

sangnoir 7y ago
> The effect of leaving was easier to measure, the company folded about a year later. Was it because you have a skill so rare that you are irreplaceable, or was the system not documented well enough that someone with the same skill-level as you (or higher) wouldn't be able to maintain it from a clean slate?
- codr7 7y ago
  I was the most experienced developer and original author, that's a lot of knowledge. There was no one left who was motivated enough and it would have taken much longer than two weeks. I left plenty of documentation behind, but there are so many edge cases where having access to a brain that was involved in the process is invaluable.
  - kkarakk 7y ago
    I can definitely see this issue, Some people just tend to end up "shaping" the software shipped for better or worse. If the org didn't emphasize documentation/knowledge sharing with someoene equally knowledge it would turn out to be pretty horrible
  - mooreds 7y ago
    Sounds like there was a good business case for a consulting arrangement after you left.
godelski 7y ago
I had a similar situation. Had won a small contact and was the only one working on it. Then turned it into a much bigger contact. It was like 30% of the company's revenue so I asked for a raise (I was at the bottom of the ladder). Said no so I started applying to grad school. They started micro managing me and asking for a 10 page report each week detailing what I did. When they caught wind of my leaving they asked me to write everything down about how to do what I was doing. Company is still there but they lost more than half their engineers. They didn't realize why people were leaving. Sometimes it's suits. But these were engineers. I learned a lot about how not to manage people though.
- krageon 7y ago
  > They didn't realize why people were leaving. I think this is a standpoint that is not defensible. Seeing how it is close to their core competency (people), it is more reasonable to assume that what they were doing was a conscious choice. Maybe you (and apparently a lot of other people) think that is the wrong choice, but that doesn't mean it was not made.
  - godelski 7y ago
    Well when I'm grabbing beers with my manager and he's like "I don't get why X left. He was doing well. Guess it must have been <unsubstantiated reason that is a flaw in their character>" I fully believe that they just didn't understand. Frankly because they told me. I'd say "no, they left because <x,y,z,...>" And they'd respond "well that's dumb. Were about to get funded. They're missing out on a lot of money" (we had no equity and had asked several times, gotten bs answers). They still don't have funding and it's been 1.5 years (they had been working on with that investor for a year prior). It really was just delusions of grandeur. Maybe they do realize now (I was the last to leave, even though the first to secure my ticket out). They thought I was leaving because I just wanted my PhD. I do want it, but there were a lot of reasons I left. Big part was being micromanaged on a project I won, I did all the work on, and I was the only one that had even basic knowledge in the subject (like knowing the difference between a proton and alpha particle. True story),this was the largest contact we currently had, and I was paid the least. They didn't see how insulting this was. Sometimes people are blind. It's probably much more common in small companies too. We were <20 people. 5/12 engineers left within a 3 month period. All but 1 E1 left and all E2s left. When people are dropping like flies maybe it's not the best to continue blaming those people and find out what you can do to have higher retention.
Slothrop99 7y ago
I'm having trouble imagining a company folding in a year because one (even essential) backend employee left. Perhaps they started to micromanage you because they were going down the tubes while you were happily 'doing your own thing'? Or did you have more of a 'face' role?
- kkarakk 7y ago
  It's pretty clear they're implying that the company did not value seniority or talent and ended up losing atleast one senior person with valuable knowledge-without being able to realize what exactly the person contributed. Never a good sign. Sometimes all it takes is that one key engineer leaving to kick off the domino of "how do we fix this issue/make something with our software stack?" glitches across the org
0x445442 7y ago
Yeah... The article is a nice thought but how many Story points were given to the effort? Did it fall within an Epic? Or was it just a Spike? If it was a Spike, did it map to more than three Story points because Spike's are really not meant to go beyond three Story points. Which, although the Story points are not meant to have any relationship to time (wink, wink), means the effort should not have lasted longer than three days. But since it obviously did, I'm wondering what the engineer's daily standup statuses were like and what the manager's thoughts were because, well, features.

by codr7 7y ago

sangnoir 7y ago

> The effect of leaving was easier to measure, the company folded about a year later. Was it because you have a skill so rare that you are irreplaceable, or was the system not documented well enough that someone with the same skill-level as you (or higher) wouldn't be able to maintain it from a clean slate?

codr7 7y ago
I was the most experienced developer and original author, that's a lot of knowledge. There was no one left who was motivated enough and it would have taken much longer than two weeks. I left plenty of documentation behind, but there are so many edge cases where having access to a brain that was involved in the process is invaluable.
- kkarakk 7y ago
  I can definitely see this issue, Some people just tend to end up "shaping" the software shipped for better or worse. If the org didn't emphasize documentation/knowledge sharing with someoene equally knowledge it would turn out to be pretty horrible
- mooreds 7y ago
  Sounds like there was a good business case for a consulting arrangement after you left.

godelski 7y ago

I had a similar situation. Had won a small contact and was the only one working on it. Then turned it into a much bigger contact. It was like 30% of the company's revenue so I asked for a raise (I was at the bottom of the ladder). Said no so I started applying to grad school. They started micro managing me and asking for a 10 page report each week detailing what I did. When they caught wind of my leaving they asked me to write everything down about how to do what I was doing. Company is still there but they lost more than half their engineers. They didn't realize why people were leaving. Sometimes it's suits. But these were engineers. I learned a lot about how not to manage people though.

krageon 7y ago
> They didn't realize why people were leaving. I think this is a standpoint that is not defensible. Seeing how it is close to their core competency (people), it is more reasonable to assume that what they were doing was a conscious choice. Maybe you (and apparently a lot of other people) think that is the wrong choice, but that doesn't mean it was not made.
- godelski 7y ago
  Well when I'm grabbing beers with my manager and he's like "I don't get why X left. He was doing well. Guess it must have been <unsubstantiated reason that is a flaw in their character>" I fully believe that they just didn't understand. Frankly because they told me. I'd say "no, they left because <x,y,z,...>" And they'd respond "well that's dumb. Were about to get funded. They're missing out on a lot of money" (we had no equity and had asked several times, gotten bs answers). They still don't have funding and it's been 1.5 years (they had been working on with that investor for a year prior). It really was just delusions of grandeur. Maybe they do realize now (I was the last to leave, even though the first to secure my ticket out). They thought I was leaving because I just wanted my PhD. I do want it, but there were a lot of reasons I left. Big part was being micromanaged on a project I won, I did all the work on, and I was the only one that had even basic knowledge in the subject (like knowing the difference between a proton and alpha particle. True story),this was the largest contact we currently had, and I was paid the least. They didn't see how insulting this was. Sometimes people are blind. It's probably much more common in small companies too. We were <20 people. 5/12 engineers left within a 3 month period. All but 1 E1 left and all E2s left. When people are dropping like flies maybe it's not the best to continue blaming those people and find out what you can do to have higher retention.

Slothrop99 7y ago

I'm having trouble imagining a company folding in a year because one (even essential) backend employee left. Perhaps they started to micromanage you because they were going down the tubes while you were happily 'doing your own thing'? Or did you have more of a 'face' role?

kkarakk 7y ago
It's pretty clear they're implying that the company did not value seniority or talent and ended up losing atleast one senior person with valuable knowledge-without being able to realize what exactly the person contributed. Never a good sign. Sometimes all it takes is that one key engineer leaving to kick off the domino of "how do we fix this issue/make something with our software stack?" glitches across the org

0x445442 7y ago

Yeah... The article is a nice thought but how many Story points were given to the effort? Did it fall within an Epic? Or was it just a Spike? If it was a Spike, did it map to more than three Story points because Spike's are really not meant to go beyond three Story points. Which, although the Story points are not meant to have any relationship to time (wink, wink), means the effort should not have lasted longer than three days. But since it obviously did, I'm wondering what the engineer's daily standup statuses were like and what the manager's thoughts were because, well, features.