12 ms·

To plot my next murder, I went to the Body Farm

59 points by 80mph 7y ago

Hansenq 7y ago
Great article! I learned a lot about human decomposition, and I'm glad there's a facility out there doing this kind of research. One nitpick: The author mentions a recent study claiming that cell phone use can cause bone spurs on an individual's head as an example of how quickly our bodies can change while we're still alive (vs what happens over generations and while decomposing): > Changes in DNA can take generations to occur. By contrast, our skeletons can show widespread changes in as short as 10 years — from the bony protrusions now increasingly common on the back of our skulls (“text necks,” some are calling them) to our increasingly low bone density as we transition from manual labor to office work. There have been serious deficiencies identified in the original study, from not actually measuring and providing data to back up their claims, studying the wrong thing, and did not have a random, representative sample. This doesn't detract from the main point of the article, but goes to show how easily an inaccurate study can permeate the societal knowledge without being corrected. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/smartphones-arent-making-millennials-grow-horns-heres-how-to-spot-a-bad-study https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/smartphones-arent-makin... https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/questions-raised-about-study-linking-phones-bone-spurs-skull-n1021706 https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/questions-raised-...
azhenley 7y ago
I always pretend this body farm doesn’t exist. I think the research is very important, but I don’t like knowing it is a few miles from my office! I’m a professor at UTK, where the farm is located.
- RickJWagner 7y ago
  Yeah, when the zombie apocalypse starts you're in a bad spot.
unnouinceput 7y ago
Quote: "I finally hit on a possible scenario during my last afternoon. I ran my idea by Jantz. She told me she thought it was deeply disturbing but also brutally effective. I went home and got to work." Yeah, everybody whom watched Breaking Bad knows it too. It involves 2 barrels of plastic and acid.
- DonHopkins 7y ago
  That ambiguous ending left me hanging and twisting in the wind.
- magic_beans 7y ago
  Who watched, not whom watched. "Whom" is only applicable for the object of a clause.
  - remarkEon 7y ago
    Completely unrelated, but I only recently learned and became comfortable with this distinction (despite somehow intuiting it in my use of the word) after getting further in my German and French classes. We seem to do a poor job of actually teaching English grammar in this country, and then we stumble upon these rules when learning other languages!
    - magic_beans 7y ago
      I only really learned English grammar properly when I studied Latin in high school.
- DanBC 7y ago
  Although you're better of using strong alkalines.
DonHopkins 7y ago
You're right about the need for hard evidence to back up unsubstantiated medical claims. Sometimes crooked doctors actually make fake diagnoses of bone spurs as favors to their draft-dodging patients. https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2018/12/27/trump-vietnam-war-bone-spur-diagnosis/2420475002/ https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2018/...
- wizzairflyer 7y ago
  Two things puzzle me each time a public figure is shamed for draft dodging the Vietnam war: 1. In the end the guy didn't do less for the country that every women who "draft dodged" thanks to their sex. In those times of equality, I feel like this should be taken into account before shaming someone who basically just lost the dice roll. 2. The Vietnam war seems to be widely disliked by the left, yet Democrats are quick to forget their disapproval of the war when it comes to shaming Trump.
  - sfkdjf9j3j 7y ago
    The criticism doesn't come from avoiding the draft, it comes from avoiding the draft and then filling his administration with hawks.
    - mgkimsal 7y ago
      or perhaps from avoiding the draft, then making regular public criticism of the military service of opponents.
      - DonHopkins 7y ago
        And perhaps also from abusing their privilege as extremely rich real estate owners who wouldn't let black people (who can't afford to dodge the draft) live in their buildings. And also for lying about having bone spurs, when the women who "dodged" the draft weren't actually lying about their gender, but were actually just following the law of the land. And for having a long track record and infamous career of discriminating against blacks and women; and for relentlessly questioning which country a black president was born in, as well as his very legitimacy; and for unceasingly criticizing, even after his death, a war hero who actually did fight for his country and spent a great deal of time as a prisoner of war.
firefoxd 7y ago
I recently read A Dog's heart, by Mikhail Bulgakov. There is a part where he describes the operation on the dog. When I read that part, i told myself there is absolutely no way he could come up with such a vivid description if he had never operated on a live body. Turns out, the author had been a doctor in world war 2 and had witnessed some terrible things. And they made their way into the book.
- Wiles_7 7y ago
  His semi-autobiographical A Country Doctor's Notebook is well worth a read. Also it was WWI not two.
  - Tade0 7y ago
    The Netflix series based on it with Daniel Radcliffe as the doctor was a joy to watch.
t0astbread 7y ago
That's a well-placed cliffhanger at the end
- DoctorOetker 7y ago
  it's weird, it's almost advertisement for murderers to buy the book...
  - progval 7y ago
    So you just have to track who bought the book (eg. ask Amazon) to find potential suspects! It reminds of https://www.marianne.net/societe/attentat-colis-piege-lyon-amazon https://www.marianne.net/societe/attentat-colis-piege-lyon-a... : someone built a bomb using Amazon Basics batteries and acetone bought on Amazon
mb_72 7y ago
Anecdotally, my dear old Mum (now in her mid-70s) worked as a forensics investigator on the Snowtown murders (aka the "Bodies in the barrels" case) in the final stages of her career. She took some samples to the FBI in the USA as part of her work, and snagged me a cool FBI hoodie and t-shirt (well, I thought so anyway). Quite a morbid and disturbing business to be in, but I feel fortunate to have a parent is such a good role model; she completed her PhD around the age of 50, and had another whole career in scientific research and forensics after that. As I'm heading towards the same age it gives me some hope I can also make a sea-change. I also learned, after asking some questions about the case, that sometimes you are better off being ignorant of the details. And that some people are really capable of terrible, terrible acts against others. :( Fortunately she had quite the grim sense of humour to help her deal with the cases she worked on.
- pmjordan 7y ago
  Fortunately she had quite the grim sense of humour to help her deal with the cases she worked on. Unfortunately, even a sense of humour doesn't protect you from PTSD when dealing with this sort of stuff, particularly on a daily basis. I recently listened to the audio book version of Dr Richard Shepherd's "Unnatural Causes" [1]. It's all very fascinating, and he's clearly passionate about his work while also providing a great service to society as a whole but as becomes clear, it has also affected his mental health and family life. [1] https://amzn.to/2LBaOF4 https://amzn.to/2LBaOF4 - (The audio book is excellently narrated by the author himself; that doesn't always work out well, but it does in this case.)
  - mb_72 7y ago
    Thanks for the recommendation, I'll definitely grab a copy.
mirimir 7y ago
This is interesting stuff, for sure. But a key word doesn't appear in TFA: "motive". No matter how well you hide/burn/dissolve/etc the remains of anyone with whom you have a relationship, you'll be a suspect. You can try to fake an alibi, and obscuring the time of death does help with that. However, any evidence for that having been done may implicate those with motives, because a random serial killer likely wouldn't bother. That's why most unsolved murders involve ~random selection of victims.
- softwaredoug 7y ago
  As an extension- A reminder to always get a lawyer when questioned by police!
  - mirimir 7y ago
    Yes. And you can only count on making one phone call. But not on having an opportunity to google for lawyers. So that phone call goes to someone you can trust to find a criminal lawyer. And contrary to fantasy, having one on retainer is too expensive for most people who aren't seriously professional criminals.
- cadlin 7y ago
  Only 60% of murders in the US are solved. The police are not as diligent as you'd think. https://www.vox.com/2018/9/24/17896034/murder-crime-clearance-fbi-report https://www.vox.com/2018/9/24/17896034/murder-crime-clearanc...
  - mirimir 7y ago
    Sure. But what's the murder clearance rate among general HN readers? I bet that it's substantially greater than 60%. As either victim or killer.
atombender 7y ago
For anyone who liked this article, I can recommend Mary Roach's "Stiff: The Curious Lives of Human Cadavers" (2003) [1]. A fantastic book about what happens to human bodies after death. Part of the book is about visiting a body farm. She's a funny, very talented writer. [1] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/32145.Stiff https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/32145.Stiff

59 points by 80mph 7y ago

Great article! I learned a lot about human decomposition, and I'm glad there's a facility out there doing this kind of research. One nitpick: The author mentions a recent study claiming that cell phone use can cause bone spurs on an individual's head as an example of how quickly our bodies can change while we're still alive (vs what happens over generations and while decomposing): > Changes in DNA can take generations to occur. By contrast, our skeletons can show widespread changes in as short as 10 years — from the bony protrusions now increasingly common on the back of our skulls (“text necks,” some are calling them) to our increasingly low bone density as we transition from manual labor to office work. There have been serious deficiencies identified in the original study, from not actually measuring and providing data to back up their claims, studying the wrong thing, and did not have a random, representative sample. This doesn't detract from the main point of the article, but goes to show how easily an inaccurate study can permeate the societal knowledge without being corrected. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/smartphones-arent-making-millennials-grow-horns-heres-how-to-spot-a-bad-study https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/smartphones-arent-makin... https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/questions-raised-about-study-linking-phones-bone-spurs-skull-n1021706 https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/questions-raised-...

azhenley 7y ago

I always pretend this body farm doesn’t exist. I think the research is very important, but I don’t like knowing it is a few miles from my office! I’m a professor at UTK, where the farm is located.

RickJWagner 7y ago
Yeah, when the zombie apocalypse starts you're in a bad spot.

unnouinceput 7y ago

Quote: "I finally hit on a possible scenario during my last afternoon. I ran my idea by Jantz. She told me she thought it was deeply disturbing but also brutally effective. I went home and got to work." Yeah, everybody whom watched Breaking Bad knows it too. It involves 2 barrels of plastic and acid.

DonHopkins 7y ago
That ambiguous ending left me hanging and twisting in the wind.
magic_beans 7y ago
Who watched, not whom watched. "Whom" is only applicable for the object of a clause.
- remarkEon 7y ago
  Completely unrelated, but I only recently learned and became comfortable with this distinction (despite somehow intuiting it in my use of the word) after getting further in my German and French classes. We seem to do a poor job of actually teaching English grammar in this country, and then we stumble upon these rules when learning other languages!
  - magic_beans 7y ago
    I only really learned English grammar properly when I studied Latin in high school.
DanBC 7y ago
Although you're better of using strong alkalines.

DonHopkins 7y ago

You're right about the need for hard evidence to back up unsubstantiated medical claims. Sometimes crooked doctors actually make fake diagnoses of bone spurs as favors to their draft-dodging patients. https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2018/12/27/trump-vietnam-war-bone-spur-diagnosis/2420475002/ https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2018/...

wizzairflyer 7y ago
Two things puzzle me each time a public figure is shamed for draft dodging the Vietnam war: 1. In the end the guy didn't do less for the country that every women who "draft dodged" thanks to their sex. In those times of equality, I feel like this should be taken into account before shaming someone who basically just lost the dice roll. 2. The Vietnam war seems to be widely disliked by the left, yet Democrats are quick to forget their disapproval of the war when it comes to shaming Trump.
- sfkdjf9j3j 7y ago
  The criticism doesn't come from avoiding the draft, it comes from avoiding the draft and then filling his administration with hawks.
  - mgkimsal 7y ago
    or perhaps from avoiding the draft, then making regular public criticism of the military service of opponents.
    - DonHopkins 7y ago
      And perhaps also from abusing their privilege as extremely rich real estate owners who wouldn't let black people (who can't afford to dodge the draft) live in their buildings. And also for lying about having bone spurs, when the women who "dodged" the draft weren't actually lying about their gender, but were actually just following the law of the land. And for having a long track record and infamous career of discriminating against blacks and women; and for relentlessly questioning which country a black president was born in, as well as his very legitimacy; and for unceasingly criticizing, even after his death, a war hero who actually did fight for his country and spent a great deal of time as a prisoner of war.

firefoxd 7y ago

I recently read A Dog's heart, by Mikhail Bulgakov. There is a part where he describes the operation on the dog. When I read that part, i told myself there is absolutely no way he could come up with such a vivid description if he had never operated on a live body. Turns out, the author had been a doctor in world war 2 and had witnessed some terrible things. And they made their way into the book.

Wiles_7 7y ago
His semi-autobiographical A Country Doctor's Notebook is well worth a read. Also it was WWI not two.
- Tade0 7y ago
  The Netflix series based on it with Daniel Radcliffe as the doctor was a joy to watch.

t0astbread 7y ago

That's a well-placed cliffhanger at the end

DoctorOetker 7y ago
it's weird, it's almost advertisement for murderers to buy the book...
- progval 7y ago
  So you just have to track who bought the book (eg. ask Amazon) to find potential suspects! It reminds of https://www.marianne.net/societe/attentat-colis-piege-lyon-amazon https://www.marianne.net/societe/attentat-colis-piege-lyon-a... : someone built a bomb using Amazon Basics batteries and acetone bought on Amazon

mb_72 7y ago

Anecdotally, my dear old Mum (now in her mid-70s) worked as a forensics investigator on the Snowtown murders (aka the "Bodies in the barrels" case) in the final stages of her career. She took some samples to the FBI in the USA as part of her work, and snagged me a cool FBI hoodie and t-shirt (well, I thought so anyway). Quite a morbid and disturbing business to be in, but I feel fortunate to have a parent is such a good role model; she completed her PhD around the age of 50, and had another whole career in scientific research and forensics after that. As I'm heading towards the same age it gives me some hope I can also make a sea-change. I also learned, after asking some questions about the case, that sometimes you are better off being ignorant of the details. And that some people are really capable of terrible, terrible acts against others. :( Fortunately she had quite the grim sense of humour to help her deal with the cases she worked on.

pmjordan 7y ago
Fortunately she had quite the grim sense of humour to help her deal with the cases she worked on. Unfortunately, even a sense of humour doesn't protect you from PTSD when dealing with this sort of stuff, particularly on a daily basis. I recently listened to the audio book version of Dr Richard Shepherd's "Unnatural Causes" [1]. It's all very fascinating, and he's clearly passionate about his work while also providing a great service to society as a whole but as becomes clear, it has also affected his mental health and family life. [1] https://amzn.to/2LBaOF4 https://amzn.to/2LBaOF4 - (The audio book is excellently narrated by the author himself; that doesn't always work out well, but it does in this case.)
- mb_72 7y ago
  Thanks for the recommendation, I'll definitely grab a copy.

mirimir 7y ago

This is interesting stuff, for sure. But a key word doesn't appear in TFA: "motive". No matter how well you hide/burn/dissolve/etc the remains of anyone with whom you have a relationship, you'll be a suspect. You can try to fake an alibi, and obscuring the time of death does help with that. However, any evidence for that having been done may implicate those with motives, because a random serial killer likely wouldn't bother. That's why most unsolved murders involve ~random selection of victims.

softwaredoug 7y ago
As an extension- A reminder to always get a lawyer when questioned by police!
- mirimir 7y ago
  Yes. And you can only count on making one phone call. But not on having an opportunity to google for lawyers. So that phone call goes to someone you can trust to find a criminal lawyer. And contrary to fantasy, having one on retainer is too expensive for most people who aren't seriously professional criminals.
cadlin 7y ago
Only 60% of murders in the US are solved. The police are not as diligent as you'd think. https://www.vox.com/2018/9/24/17896034/murder-crime-clearance-fbi-report https://www.vox.com/2018/9/24/17896034/murder-crime-clearanc...
- mirimir 7y ago
  Sure. But what's the murder clearance rate among general HN readers? I bet that it's substantially greater than 60%. As either victim or killer.

atombender 7y ago

For anyone who liked this article, I can recommend Mary Roach's "Stiff: The Curious Lives of Human Cadavers" (2003) [1]. A fantastic book about what happens to human bodies after death. Part of the book is about visiting a body farm. She's a funny, very talented writer. [1] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/32145.Stiff https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/32145.Stiff