20 ms·

> Sagarwala, according to the ruling in Washington, D.C. U.S. District Court, received an H-1B visa in 2012, but those visas are tied to specific employers. So

> Sagarwala, according to the ruling in Washington, D.C. U.S. District Court, received an H-1B visa in 2012, but those visas are tied to specific employers. So when she sought to change jobs in August last year, the prospective new employer, outsourcing firm HSK Technologies, had to go through the visa application process again. So she had lived in the US for six years and still had to beg the government for permission to change jobs? I had no idea it was this bad.

ergothus 7y ago
This is definitely, painfully, normal. It also impacts where a worker will go - big companies have immigration lawyers on staff to help with this, while smaller companies have to leave the workers to largely fight the battle on their own. This means, regardless of wage(!), big companies have a bigger pool to hire from.
throwaway082729 7y ago
I've been here for 17+ years, earn $650k/yr and I'm still in the same boat. I'm at the mercy of the govt. if I want to change jobs. Moreover, I need to restart the labor certification process and reapply for my green card though I get to keep the same priority date. There's no end in sight i.e. I cannot predict when I'll get my green card due to the per-country cap and backlog. Worse, I cannot quit and take time off even for a day.
- nullspace 7y ago
  Honestly, with that kind of salary - it feels like you could save up enough to get to an EB-5 investors category, which have far shorter waiting times, correct? Or am I mistaken?
  - product50 7y ago
    EB-5 for Indians has a 3+ yr timeline now and you have to shell out at least $500k. And there is no guarantee you will get approved.
  - faang34253 7y ago
    With that kind of salary, you could just quit working for others and lead pretty luxurious (or frugal, or just basic, whatever floats your boat) life almost everywhere until you die. Okay, some of us got the real "dream job" and that's the way they want to live this life, so whatever. But, if not spending everything on coke one should have several millions on investments at this point. And that makes literally buying (through the loopholes created for investors) citizenship easy. Heck, even Switzerland gives you a passport if you invest about one million IIRC. I fail to understand why anyone in such a prestigious position (but without citizenship for a given country) would not use their hard earned money to make things easier in perfectly legal way. Well, I guess it's easier to be illegal immigrant and suddenly the media is all about you and your presupposed rights (like invading any country you wish 'cause you want free stuff). The whole system is broken and probably soon also broke.
    - conanbatt 7y ago
      Equality under the law and all really goes out the window with this thinking.
  - bonzini 7y ago
    Even O-1 seems like it could be a good possibility (I wrote a reference letter for a colleague seeking the O-1 via a few years ago, and I only had to describe his work as open source project lead).
    - winter_blue 7y ago
      You mean EB-1. The O-1 is a temporary visa. Approvals of EB-1 are unfortunately highly subjective. It's like winning a lottery (based on who looks at your application).
      - bonzini 7y ago
        O-1 is extensible, isn't it? You can get it first instead of H-1B, and then apply for a green card once you move to the US.
        winter_blue 7y ago
        Yes, it can be extended any number of times. But each and every O-1 approval is also highly subjective and discretionary. The standard is somewhat lower than EB-1. While EB-1 requires what Congress calls "extraordinary ability", the O-1 requires "exceptional ability". Again, the way things work is that whichever officer looks at the case, subjectively decides if it qualifies (in his/her opinion). Nothing like the highly-objective points-based skilled immigration system you have in some countries.
- usaphp 7y ago
  Why not get an investor visa? It's easily convertible to green card according to several people I know who did it. You only need $500K or so for the whole thing. And investment money were returned even with some profit.
  - fernandopj 7y ago
    As I recall it doesn't even need to be $500k upfront, you have to (show/prove) you'll invest that and generate jobs in a couple of years.
    - deminature 7y ago
      You have to prove you'll create jobs for a minimum of 10 U.S. citizens, which sounds somewhat nontrivial. https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/immigrate/immigrant-investor-visas.html https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/immigrat...
      - satya71 7y ago
        Not really. Most such investments are in hotels/hospitals etc with large number of low paid employees.
      - usaphp 7y ago
        You can just provide the money without actually doing any leg work in hiring or managing the business itself. As far as I know you get a list of businesses that require funding and you will pick which one you will fund
      - kevin_thibedeau 7y ago
        You just get roped into a big development project like Hudson Yards in NYC which was an excuse to sell thousands of EB5 visas. The bonus is your investment in "blight" redevelopment turns into luxury housing you can purchase to park your excess funds. https://www.citylab.com/equity/2019/04/hudson-yards-financing-eb5-investor-visa-program-immigration/586897/ https://www.citylab.com/equity/2019/04/hudson-yards-financin...
- product50 7y ago
  Surprised this is getting downvoted. These types of salaries are somewhat common in FANG companies for senior engineers and it is common for some of them (depending on their nationality) to still wait for the green card for 15+ yrs. I know people here won't like the truth but this is the current reality for Indian citizens legally immigrated in US. On the other hand, it is actually easier to get a green card if you are an illegal immigrant - which is the real thing that boggles my mind. I was talking to an Uber driver the other day who was from Congo but came illegally to US and got his green card within 2 yrs. Not saying that the Congo folks shouldn't get green cards but a high skilled legal immigrant, who is able to command $300k+ in salary (which is sufficiently high to categorize them out of the IT body shop type work), is someone US should try to value at least as much (if not more) vs. an illegal immigrant.
  - ra7 7y ago
    Most highly skilled legal immigrants would have also invested time and money for a US graduate education, often taking out big education loans. So if an illegal immigrant is getting a permanent residency within 2 years and a highly skilled legal immigrant is waiting 10+ years, the system is severely broken and unfair.
  - leakybit 7y ago
    So the rich are more entitled to get a green card?
    - paxys 7y ago
      Highly skilled people should be more entitled to a green card (and that often corresponds to highly paid)
    - conanbatt 7y ago
      The rich also get the protection from competition from abroad. There is an unlimited visa for nannies, but limited for doctors, lawyers and software engineers.
    - notyourday 7y ago
      > So the rich are more entitled to get a green card? Compared to a dishwasher? Absolutely. This is not 1800 and we do not need to dig trenches using shovels for which we just need bodies. That's also why Patel, the senior software engineer at FAANG, is making $650k/year in total compensation while Jose who is a custodian cleaning FB's office is making $40k/year.
- refurb 7y ago
  Considering the average US citizen has a median income of $50K, it's kind of hard to feel sorry for you.
  - Bhilai 7y ago
    OP is not stopping anyone from pursuing higher education or working hard or getting a high paying job, they are merely describing their experience of the broken system and not asking for your sympathy.
  - conanbatt 7y ago
    Why stop at immigration restrictions then, just jail and confiscate all the goods from immigrants.
  - dang 7y ago
    Please don't post unsubstantive comments to HN. Perhaps you don't owe the GP better, but you owe this community better if you want to post here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
    - refurb 7y ago
      Noted, but I didn't feel my comment unsubstantive. The OP comes to America as an immigrant (as did I), makes more money in one year than most American's make in 20. My comment simply put his "problem" into perspective.
      - dang 7y ago
        There was no information in it other than that the GP makes more money than others, which was missed by no one, and a vague expression of resentment about it. I'm afraid that's completely unsubstantive by HN standards.
- geodel 7y ago
  Huh, wouldn't putting 1 million dollar investment get you EB5 green card in very short time?
  - morningcovfefe 7y ago
    It takes 2 years and a lot of lawyers and maybe you might get it.. (it's not guaranteed at all) but if you've earned the 500k the hard way you're not very inclined to gamble it on the slim chance. Besides.. there's better places to retire on 500k
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- stbernardlove 7y ago
  Alright, drama queen, so you're saying that H1B holders can't take PTO or even unpaid time off? If so, I have empirical evidence that disproves your point ;) What you meant to say is you can't be in between jobs, but even then, you're allowed up to 60 days. GC backlogs suck. Kids aging out is just evil and wrong and needs to be fixed. But don't blame the backlog on country caps. If there were never any caps, you would still be backlogged, just by 1-2 years less, and the rest of the world would be backlogged as well. The root of the issue is applicants like the person mentioned in the article taking up space in the backlog, regardless of the job that they do or their experience. You can be a fresh graduate or a seasoned professional with decades of experience, but be in the same EB-2 queue. Looking forward to seeing what the White House bill will look like, but the US definitely needs to more merit in its immigration system.
  - dang 7y ago
    > Alright, drama queen, so you're saying Personal attacks and name-calling aren't allowed here. Could you please not post in the flamewar style to Hacker News? We're trying for something other than that on this site. If you'd read https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and follow those rules when posting to HN, we'd be grateful. You might also find these links helpful for understanding where they came from: https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html https://news.ycombinator.com/hackernews.html https://news.ycombinator.com/hackernews.html http://www.paulgraham.com/trolls.html http://www.paulgraham.com/trolls.html http://www.paulgraham.com/hackernews.html http://www.paulgraham.com/hackernews.html
    - stbernardlove 7y ago
      The parent comment was unsubstantive. It served no purpose, but to falsely paint the author as a victim. I disagree that calling someone a "drama queen" is flaming or name-calling.
      - dang 7y ago
        I wouldn't say it was unsubstantive. It described a concrete situation with new information. Yes, it also had a note of complaint (pretty understandable assuming the information is true), and perhaps a bit of gratuitous showing off, but "falsely paint the author as a victim" seems harsh. You can agree or disagree, but addressing another user the way you did is definitely outside the community norm here and a bannable offense, so please don't do that on HN again. Also, since your account has so far commented on only one topic and done so rather pugnaciously, I should let you know that single-purpose accounts are not allowed on HN, and especially not accounts that use the site primarily for political battle.
abc_lisper 7y ago
:) I am in US for 18 years now, have a master's degree and work at a FANG company, and don't have a GC yet. I am not saying this to seek sympathy, but things are way worse than they look. The system is gamified by outsourcing companies and body shops, that are more worried about their people in, play the numbers game and clog the H-1B and GC routes, make it difficult for everyone who is trying to do quality work without playing cheap tricks.
- trilila 7y ago
  Yet the liberals cry for illegal immigrants, while ignoring legal immigrants. A bit shameful on their behalf. Hope you get your situation sorted out soon.
- Uhhrrr 7y ago
  This is why H1B's should be auctioned, to kill the body shops which are gaming the current lottery system.
  - conanbatt 7y ago
    Or eliminate the cap altogether and never talk about this problem ever again.
    - rdtwo 7y ago
      That would benefit scammy firms like infosys
      - gumby 7y ago
        How so? Body shop scammers who spam the H-1 system would no longer have an advantage.
        metildaa 7y ago
        Body shops would be able to bring in many more workers, and supress wages further. The dearth of middle income jobs in the USA is in part caused by these body shops flooding the domestic market with questionable talent, driving down wages and living standards severely.
paxys 7y ago
I have been here 12 years, and know people 15-18+ years, all in the same boat. I can be asked to leave the country tomorrow because I tried to switch jobs, my boss woke up on the wrong side of the bed or literally any or no other reason.
- mantap 7y ago
  Why do you do it? I'm sorry if it sounds callous, I'm just curious really. I personally wouldn't be able to endure such a precarious and stressful situation.
  - morningcovfefe 7y ago
    You intend to leave the first 4 years.. Then someone applies for a green card on your behalf and you believe there's a path to permanence - and you see folks getting green cards all the time.. Then 5 years later you find out, because you were born in the wrong country, you get to wait 70 years instead of 1. But by then you have a wife, kids and a dog. Then you kinda resign yourself to have to leaving someday but stay and make the TC you can while you can
- HBKXNCUO 7y ago
  The program does not exist for your benefit. It exists for the benefit of US companies, and allegedly by extension the citizens of the US. The extent to which it benefits you is incidental, so that sort of thing is to be expected.
m0zg 7y ago
You only have to do that if your new job is significantly different than your existing one. You do have to notify the government (USCIS probably) that you're changing jobs, bu that's not "visa application process again" if your new job is similar, and you're unlikely to be denied. Job changes are very dangerous for H1-Bs in other ways and employers know it (and abuse it, nearly all of them). Basically if your employer finds out you're looking for a job and you don't already have another job lined up, they can fire you out of spite, and you'll have to GTFO the US within (IIRC) 2 weeks. There's absolutely no recourse. Even if you are in a protected class, you're very unlikely to sue unless you're in the US and have lots of money (which H1-Bs typically don't). So few people bother unless the situation is really dire. It's not just H1-B either. F1-OPT gets abused in a similar fashion.
- paxys 7y ago
  It isn't a "notification", you still have to file for a new visa regardless of how similar the new position is. And it can very well be denied. The only concession is that you won't be subject to the annual limit and won't have to go through the lottery.
- akshat_h 7y ago
  and you'll have to GTFO the US within (IIRC) 2 weeks. I think there was a grace period of 60 days introduced in 2017 though I am not sure on the status of it now.
  - jogjayr 7y ago
    It's a one-time grace period, not 60 days cumulative over a lifetime. The second time you get laid off without a new job in hand no grace period for you.
- frankchn 7y ago
  Your new employer has to file a H1B petition de novo, with the only difference that you are not subject to the lottery any more. USCIS may well take the view that your new job, even if it is doing the same thing, is not a specialty occupation any more.
kelnos 7y ago
Putting aside for a moment the insane fact that someone can be in the green card queue for even six years (and I know people who have been in it for much longer), I don't see this as unreasonable. If you've had an H-1B approved for a particular kind of job, and then try to go work for one of the body-shop consulting/outsourcing firms, that absolutely should not be allowed. These firms have been abusing the H-1B system for years, giving the visa (and often the workers who have it) a bad name.
- paxys 7y ago
  Six years would be a blessing. Most people I know have been waiting 10 years or longer. The green card queue for the vast majority of applicants today is essentially infinite, even if you stay in the same job at the same company.
  - dudul 7y ago
    Isn't it only true for applicants from India and China? As far as I know (and I may be mistaken, this is just what my immigration lawyer told me a while ago) for all other countries it's not that bad, rarely passed a few years.
    - paxys 7y ago
      India, China, Mexico, Philippines and a few others. But the vast majority of the applicants are from these countries.
      - dudul 7y ago
        But that's because there is a per-country yearly cap. I just think it may not be wise to make blanket statements like "it takes 22 years to get a GC!" while this is only true for half a dozen of nationalities.
        paxys 7y ago
        If 95% of the applicants are going to wait that long then how is it not an accurate statement?
trilila 7y ago
The silliest immigration visa for skilled workers in the western world.
HBKXNCUO 7y ago
She lived in a foreign country run by foreigners and administered by a government created for the sole purpose of serving the interests of those foreigners and their posterity. If those foreigners have decided for whatever reason to restrict access to the labor markets in their country, how is it "bad" for their government to enforce that?
rayiner 7y ago
An H1-B visa holder is, under the statute, a "non-immigrant alien" who is "temporarily" in the United States to perform a specialized occupation. 8 USC 1101(a)(15)(H)(1)(b). The fact that it's tied to a specific job is by design. H1-B is not intended to be an immigration path for skilled workers. (The fact that it is often used that way is just a by-product of the fact that the U.S. allows almost all non-short-term visa holders to apply for a green card. But H1-B was not created as a stepping stone toward that process, and its requirements are not really geared toward making it easy to serve as a "staging" ground for green card applicants.) Does the U.S. need a real skilled immigrant visa? Maybe. That's really a separate question.
- m_samuel_l 7y ago
  H1B is a dual intent visa
- Bhilai 7y ago
  > Nonimmigrants in H-1B or L-1 status can be the beneficiary of an immigrant visa petition, apply for adjustment of status, or take other steps toward Lawful Permanent Resident status without affecting their status. This is known as "dual intent" and has been recognized in immigration law since passage of the Immigration Act of 1990. https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/USCIS/About%20Us/Electronic%20Reading%20Room/Applicant%20Service%20Reference%20Guide/Nonimmigrant_Empl.pdf https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/USCIS/About%20Us/E...
  - rayiner 7y ago
    You’re mixing up two different things. “Dual intent” just means that you don’t lose your eligibility for a temporary status visa (which requires you to have intent to return to your home country) by filing for a green card. It basically allows you to express cognitive dissonance about your immigration intentions. That does not mean that the H1-B visa itself is not a temporary visa. The H1-B program itself remains designed for temporary workers.
    - Bhilai 7y ago
supercanuck 7y ago
Well it is considered a "Temporary Visa" and for a specialty occupation. >Generally, a citizen of a foreign country who wishes to enter the United States must first obtain a visa, either a nonimmigrant visa for temporary stay, or an immigrant visa for permanent residence. Temporary worker visas are for persons who want to enter the United States for employment lasting a fixed period of time, and are not considered permanent or indefinite. https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/employment/temporary-worker-visas.html https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/employme...
brighter2morrow 7y ago
>So she had lived in the US for six years and still had to beg the government for permission to change jobs? I had no idea it was this bad. The purpose of the H1B program is for foreign specialists to do work for which no American worker can be found. It's not for foreigners to come to the US and go job hopping.

ergothus 7y ago

This is definitely, painfully, normal. It also impacts where a worker will go - big companies have immigration lawyers on staff to help with this, while smaller companies have to leave the workers to largely fight the battle on their own. This means, regardless of wage(!), big companies have a bigger pool to hire from.

throwaway082729 7y ago

I've been here for 17+ years, earn $650k/yr and I'm still in the same boat. I'm at the mercy of the govt. if I want to change jobs. Moreover, I need to restart the labor certification process and reapply for my green card though I get to keep the same priority date. There's no end in sight i.e. I cannot predict when I'll get my green card due to the per-country cap and backlog. Worse, I cannot quit and take time off even for a day.

nullspace 7y ago
Honestly, with that kind of salary - it feels like you could save up enough to get to an EB-5 investors category, which have far shorter waiting times, correct? Or am I mistaken?
- product50 7y ago
  EB-5 for Indians has a 3+ yr timeline now and you have to shell out at least $500k. And there is no guarantee you will get approved.
- faang34253 7y ago
  With that kind of salary, you could just quit working for others and lead pretty luxurious (or frugal, or just basic, whatever floats your boat) life almost everywhere until you die. Okay, some of us got the real "dream job" and that's the way they want to live this life, so whatever. But, if not spending everything on coke one should have several millions on investments at this point. And that makes literally buying (through the loopholes created for investors) citizenship easy. Heck, even Switzerland gives you a passport if you invest about one million IIRC. I fail to understand why anyone in such a prestigious position (but without citizenship for a given country) would not use their hard earned money to make things easier in perfectly legal way. Well, I guess it's easier to be illegal immigrant and suddenly the media is all about you and your presupposed rights (like invading any country you wish 'cause you want free stuff). The whole system is broken and probably soon also broke.
  - conanbatt 7y ago
    Equality under the law and all really goes out the window with this thinking.
- bonzini 7y ago
  Even O-1 seems like it could be a good possibility (I wrote a reference letter for a colleague seeking the O-1 via a few years ago, and I only had to describe his work as open source project lead).
  - winter_blue 7y ago
    You mean EB-1. The O-1 is a temporary visa. Approvals of EB-1 are unfortunately highly subjective. It's like winning a lottery (based on who looks at your application).
    - bonzini 7y ago
      O-1 is extensible, isn't it? You can get it first instead of H-1B, and then apply for a green card once you move to the US.
      - winter_blue 7y ago
        Yes, it can be extended any number of times. But each and every O-1 approval is also highly subjective and discretionary. The standard is somewhat lower than EB-1. While EB-1 requires what Congress calls "extraordinary ability", the O-1 requires "exceptional ability". Again, the way things work is that whichever officer looks at the case, subjectively decides if it qualifies (in his/her opinion). Nothing like the highly-objective points-based skilled immigration system you have in some countries.
usaphp 7y ago
Why not get an investor visa? It's easily convertible to green card according to several people I know who did it. You only need $500K or so for the whole thing. And investment money were returned even with some profit.
- fernandopj 7y ago
  As I recall it doesn't even need to be $500k upfront, you have to (show/prove) you'll invest that and generate jobs in a couple of years.
  - deminature 7y ago
    You have to prove you'll create jobs for a minimum of 10 U.S. citizens, which sounds somewhat nontrivial. https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/immigrate/immigrant-investor-visas.html https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/immigrat...
    - satya71 7y ago
      Not really. Most such investments are in hotels/hospitals etc with large number of low paid employees.
    - usaphp 7y ago
      You can just provide the money without actually doing any leg work in hiring or managing the business itself. As far as I know you get a list of businesses that require funding and you will pick which one you will fund
    - kevin_thibedeau 7y ago
      You just get roped into a big development project like Hudson Yards in NYC which was an excuse to sell thousands of EB5 visas. The bonus is your investment in "blight" redevelopment turns into luxury housing you can purchase to park your excess funds. https://www.citylab.com/equity/2019/04/hudson-yards-financing-eb5-investor-visa-program-immigration/586897/ https://www.citylab.com/equity/2019/04/hudson-yards-financin...
product50 7y ago
Surprised this is getting downvoted. These types of salaries are somewhat common in FANG companies for senior engineers and it is common for some of them (depending on their nationality) to still wait for the green card for 15+ yrs. I know people here won't like the truth but this is the current reality for Indian citizens legally immigrated in US. On the other hand, it is actually easier to get a green card if you are an illegal immigrant - which is the real thing that boggles my mind. I was talking to an Uber driver the other day who was from Congo but came illegally to US and got his green card within 2 yrs. Not saying that the Congo folks shouldn't get green cards but a high skilled legal immigrant, who is able to command $300k+ in salary (which is sufficiently high to categorize them out of the IT body shop type work), is someone US should try to value at least as much (if not more) vs. an illegal immigrant.
- ra7 7y ago
  Most highly skilled legal immigrants would have also invested time and money for a US graduate education, often taking out big education loans. So if an illegal immigrant is getting a permanent residency within 2 years and a highly skilled legal immigrant is waiting 10+ years, the system is severely broken and unfair.
- leakybit 7y ago
  So the rich are more entitled to get a green card?
  - paxys 7y ago
    Highly skilled people should be more entitled to a green card (and that often corresponds to highly paid)
  - conanbatt 7y ago
    The rich also get the protection from competition from abroad. There is an unlimited visa for nannies, but limited for doctors, lawyers and software engineers.
  - notyourday 7y ago
    > So the rich are more entitled to get a green card? Compared to a dishwasher? Absolutely. This is not 1800 and we do not need to dig trenches using shovels for which we just need bodies. That's also why Patel, the senior software engineer at FAANG, is making $650k/year in total compensation while Jose who is a custodian cleaning FB's office is making $40k/year.
refurb 7y ago
Considering the average US citizen has a median income of $50K, it's kind of hard to feel sorry for you.
- Bhilai 7y ago
  OP is not stopping anyone from pursuing higher education or working hard or getting a high paying job, they are merely describing their experience of the broken system and not asking for your sympathy.
- conanbatt 7y ago
  Why stop at immigration restrictions then, just jail and confiscate all the goods from immigrants.
- dang 7y ago
  Please don't post unsubstantive comments to HN. Perhaps you don't owe the GP better, but you owe this community better if you want to post here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - refurb 7y ago
    Noted, but I didn't feel my comment unsubstantive. The OP comes to America as an immigrant (as did I), makes more money in one year than most American's make in 20. My comment simply put his "problem" into perspective.
    - dang 7y ago
      There was no information in it other than that the GP makes more money than others, which was missed by no one, and a vague expression of resentment about it. I'm afraid that's completely unsubstantive by HN standards.
geodel 7y ago
Huh, wouldn't putting 1 million dollar investment get you EB5 green card in very short time?
- morningcovfefe 7y ago
  It takes 2 years and a lot of lawyers and maybe you might get it.. (it's not guaranteed at all) but if you've earned the 500k the hard way you're not very inclined to gamble it on the slim chance. Besides.. there's better places to retire on 500k
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
stbernardlove 7y ago
Alright, drama queen, so you're saying that H1B holders can't take PTO or even unpaid time off? If so, I have empirical evidence that disproves your point ;) What you meant to say is you can't be in between jobs, but even then, you're allowed up to 60 days. GC backlogs suck. Kids aging out is just evil and wrong and needs to be fixed. But don't blame the backlog on country caps. If there were never any caps, you would still be backlogged, just by 1-2 years less, and the rest of the world would be backlogged as well. The root of the issue is applicants like the person mentioned in the article taking up space in the backlog, regardless of the job that they do or their experience. You can be a fresh graduate or a seasoned professional with decades of experience, but be in the same EB-2 queue. Looking forward to seeing what the White House bill will look like, but the US definitely needs to more merit in its immigration system.
- dang 7y ago
  > Alright, drama queen, so you're saying Personal attacks and name-calling aren't allowed here. Could you please not post in the flamewar style to Hacker News? We're trying for something other than that on this site. If you'd read https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and follow those rules when posting to HN, we'd be grateful. You might also find these links helpful for understanding where they came from: https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html https://news.ycombinator.com/hackernews.html https://news.ycombinator.com/hackernews.html http://www.paulgraham.com/trolls.html http://www.paulgraham.com/trolls.html http://www.paulgraham.com/hackernews.html http://www.paulgraham.com/hackernews.html
  - stbernardlove 7y ago
    The parent comment was unsubstantive. It served no purpose, but to falsely paint the author as a victim. I disagree that calling someone a "drama queen" is flaming or name-calling.
    - dang 7y ago
      I wouldn't say it was unsubstantive. It described a concrete situation with new information. Yes, it also had a note of complaint (pretty understandable assuming the information is true), and perhaps a bit of gratuitous showing off, but "falsely paint the author as a victim" seems harsh. You can agree or disagree, but addressing another user the way you did is definitely outside the community norm here and a bannable offense, so please don't do that on HN again. Also, since your account has so far commented on only one topic and done so rather pugnaciously, I should let you know that single-purpose accounts are not allowed on HN, and especially not accounts that use the site primarily for political battle.

abc_lisper 7y ago

:) I am in US for 18 years now, have a master's degree and work at a FANG company, and don't have a GC yet. I am not saying this to seek sympathy, but things are way worse than they look. The system is gamified by outsourcing companies and body shops, that are more worried about their people in, play the numbers game and clog the H-1B and GC routes, make it difficult for everyone who is trying to do quality work without playing cheap tricks.

trilila 7y ago
Yet the liberals cry for illegal immigrants, while ignoring legal immigrants. A bit shameful on their behalf. Hope you get your situation sorted out soon.
Uhhrrr 7y ago
This is why H1B's should be auctioned, to kill the body shops which are gaming the current lottery system.
- conanbatt 7y ago
  Or eliminate the cap altogether and never talk about this problem ever again.
  - rdtwo 7y ago
    That would benefit scammy firms like infosys
    - gumby 7y ago
      How so? Body shop scammers who spam the H-1 system would no longer have an advantage.
      - metildaa 7y ago
        Body shops would be able to bring in many more workers, and supress wages further. The dearth of middle income jobs in the USA is in part caused by these body shops flooding the domestic market with questionable talent, driving down wages and living standards severely.

paxys 7y ago

I have been here 12 years, and know people 15-18+ years, all in the same boat. I can be asked to leave the country tomorrow because I tried to switch jobs, my boss woke up on the wrong side of the bed or literally any or no other reason.

mantap 7y ago
Why do you do it? I'm sorry if it sounds callous, I'm just curious really. I personally wouldn't be able to endure such a precarious and stressful situation.
- morningcovfefe 7y ago
  You intend to leave the first 4 years.. Then someone applies for a green card on your behalf and you believe there's a path to permanence - and you see folks getting green cards all the time.. Then 5 years later you find out, because you were born in the wrong country, you get to wait 70 years instead of 1. But by then you have a wife, kids and a dog. Then you kinda resign yourself to have to leaving someday but stay and make the TC you can while you can
HBKXNCUO 7y ago
The program does not exist for your benefit. It exists for the benefit of US companies, and allegedly by extension the citizens of the US. The extent to which it benefits you is incidental, so that sort of thing is to be expected.

m0zg 7y ago

You only have to do that if your new job is significantly different than your existing one. You do have to notify the government (USCIS probably) that you're changing jobs, bu that's not "visa application process again" if your new job is similar, and you're unlikely to be denied. Job changes are very dangerous for H1-Bs in other ways and employers know it (and abuse it, nearly all of them). Basically if your employer finds out you're looking for a job and you don't already have another job lined up, they can fire you out of spite, and you'll have to GTFO the US within (IIRC) 2 weeks. There's absolutely no recourse. Even if you are in a protected class, you're very unlikely to sue unless you're in the US and have lots of money (which H1-Bs typically don't). So few people bother unless the situation is really dire. It's not just H1-B either. F1-OPT gets abused in a similar fashion.

paxys 7y ago
It isn't a "notification", you still have to file for a new visa regardless of how similar the new position is. And it can very well be denied. The only concession is that you won't be subject to the annual limit and won't have to go through the lottery.
akshat_h 7y ago
and you'll have to GTFO the US within (IIRC) 2 weeks. I think there was a grace period of 60 days introduced in 2017 though I am not sure on the status of it now.
- jogjayr 7y ago
  It's a one-time grace period, not 60 days cumulative over a lifetime. The second time you get laid off without a new job in hand no grace period for you.
frankchn 7y ago
Your new employer has to file a H1B petition de novo, with the only difference that you are not subject to the lottery any more. USCIS may well take the view that your new job, even if it is doing the same thing, is not a specialty occupation any more.

kelnos 7y ago

Putting aside for a moment the insane fact that someone can be in the green card queue for even six years (and I know people who have been in it for much longer), I don't see this as unreasonable. If you've had an H-1B approved for a particular kind of job, and then try to go work for one of the body-shop consulting/outsourcing firms, that absolutely should not be allowed. These firms have been abusing the H-1B system for years, giving the visa (and often the workers who have it) a bad name.

paxys 7y ago
Six years would be a blessing. Most people I know have been waiting 10 years or longer. The green card queue for the vast majority of applicants today is essentially infinite, even if you stay in the same job at the same company.
- dudul 7y ago
  Isn't it only true for applicants from India and China? As far as I know (and I may be mistaken, this is just what my immigration lawyer told me a while ago) for all other countries it's not that bad, rarely passed a few years.
  - paxys 7y ago
    India, China, Mexico, Philippines and a few others. But the vast majority of the applicants are from these countries.
    - dudul 7y ago
      But that's because there is a per-country yearly cap. I just think it may not be wise to make blanket statements like "it takes 22 years to get a GC!" while this is only true for half a dozen of nationalities.
      - paxys 7y ago
        If 95% of the applicants are going to wait that long then how is it not an accurate statement?

trilila 7y ago

The silliest immigration visa for skilled workers in the western world.

HBKXNCUO 7y ago

She lived in a foreign country run by foreigners and administered by a government created for the sole purpose of serving the interests of those foreigners and their posterity. If those foreigners have decided for whatever reason to restrict access to the labor markets in their country, how is it "bad" for their government to enforce that?

rayiner 7y ago

An H1-B visa holder is, under the statute, a "non-immigrant alien" who is "temporarily" in the United States to perform a specialized occupation. 8 USC 1101(a)(15)(H)(1)(b). The fact that it's tied to a specific job is by design. H1-B is not intended to be an immigration path for skilled workers. (The fact that it is often used that way is just a by-product of the fact that the U.S. allows almost all non-short-term visa holders to apply for a green card. But H1-B was not created as a stepping stone toward that process, and its requirements are not really geared toward making it easy to serve as a "staging" ground for green card applicants.) Does the U.S. need a real skilled immigrant visa? Maybe. That's really a separate question.

m_samuel_l 7y ago
H1B is a dual intent visa
Bhilai 7y ago
> Nonimmigrants in H-1B or L-1 status can be the beneficiary of an immigrant visa petition, apply for adjustment of status, or take other steps toward Lawful Permanent Resident status without affecting their status. This is known as "dual intent" and has been recognized in immigration law since passage of the Immigration Act of 1990. https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/USCIS/About%20Us/Electronic%20Reading%20Room/Applicant%20Service%20Reference%20Guide/Nonimmigrant_Empl.pdf https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/USCIS/About%20Us/E...
- rayiner 7y ago
  You’re mixing up two different things. “Dual intent” just means that you don’t lose your eligibility for a temporary status visa (which requires you to have intent to return to your home country) by filing for a green card. It basically allows you to express cognitive dissonance about your immigration intentions. That does not mean that the H1-B visa itself is not a temporary visa. The H1-B program itself remains designed for temporary workers.
  - Bhilai 7y ago

supercanuck 7y ago

Well it is considered a "Temporary Visa" and for a specialty occupation. >Generally, a citizen of a foreign country who wishes to enter the United States must first obtain a visa, either a nonimmigrant visa for temporary stay, or an immigrant visa for permanent residence. Temporary worker visas are for persons who want to enter the United States for employment lasting a fixed period of time, and are not considered permanent or indefinite. https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/employment/temporary-worker-visas.html https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/employme...

brighter2morrow 7y ago

>So she had lived in the US for six years and still had to beg the government for permission to change jobs? I had no idea it was this bad. The purpose of the H1B program is for foreign specialists to do work for which no American worker can be found. It's not for foreigners to come to the US and go job hopping.