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>If everyone followed Public Health England’s eating advice, people in the bottom decile of household income would spend 74 per cent of their income on food I

>If everyone followed Public Health England’s eating advice, people in the bottom decile of household income would spend 74 per cent of their income on food I find this very interesting. I'm a graduate student in Midwest of the US. My income places me in the bottom 20% of household incomes. Not poor, but money must be carefully managed. In my experience, eating well isn't that expensive in terms of time or money, provided you are willing to adjust your diet. I keep good track of my finances and diet, and I spend nowhere near that figure (and I still wouldn't, even if I made half of what I do) and I have a pretty healthy diet and reasonably active lifestyle. What are in these guidelines making them so expensive? Or in the US, particularly in the Midwest, is the cost of food that much cheaper than the UK?

wongarsu 7y ago
Part of the advice [0] is "Over a third of the diet should come from fruit and vegetables". Also "Aim for at least two portions (2 x 140g) of fish a week". Neither of those two are necessarily cheap. However I don't see that approaching 74% of the income either when you choose sensible options for vegetables and fish. 0: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/742746/A_quick_guide_to_govt_healthy_eating_update.pdf https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/...
- nradov 7y ago
  Canned or frozen vegetables are quite cheap in most industrialized countries.
- bobthepanda 7y ago
  Interestingly enough, the FDA does not recommend eating more than 12 oz (~340g) of fish a week due to mercury concerns. https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-and-epa-issue-final-fish-consumption-advice https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-and-...
  - jtuente 7y ago
    > This advice is geared toward helping women who are pregnant or may become pregnant – as well as breastfeeding mothers and parents of young children – make informed choices when it comes to fish that are healthy and safe to eat.
- opportune 7y ago
  Not sure how much food costs in the UK but that would cost $2-4 in the US if you satisfy that with canned sardines/tuna/salmon, or farmed tilapia. Vegetables are cheaper than most people think. I usually buy $1/lb frozen peas and $1.5/lb frozen broccoli. Washed and cut fresh carrots are also about $1.5/lb. Spinach and kale are not bad either. Just don't waste money on fresh vegetables, by the time you cook them they will probably be in worse condition than the frozen stuff. Fruits are probably the most expensive. The cheapest fruits don't even have great nutritional profiles other than fiber and maybe vitamin C (which not a lot of people know is actually abundant in many common vegetables).
- sametmax 7y ago
  Things like dried beans/peas, eggs, full grain rice, sunflower seeds, whole potatoes, green leafs, tomatoes, brassicaceaes, onions, apples, bananas and carrots can all be obtained at a fair price. You can cover a lot with these, and it's much better than fried chips and pasta. My take is more than: - a scary amount of people of my generation are completely uneducated about food. They don't know what a balanced diet is. They don't know how to cook. They don't know where to shop. They don't know how to choose a product. They don't know how much their health is affected by this. And they rather spend an hour on facebook than starting to figure it out. - food is hard. Our society make it harder: we have a huge quantity of low quality food at our disposal. We solved the starving problem, but replaced it with a malnutrition problem, aggravated with the desire to make money which lead to the promotion of shitty food and the production of it. Getting proper information on nutrition is a hell of confusion, contradictory messages, social pressure and guilt. - tasty balanced food is expensive and requires time + work + planning. Anybody can buy the stuff I talked about. But if you go to your usual supermarket and buy them, they will taste like crap. In fact, it's even hard to find nice food at the farmer market nowadays. So of course they don't want to eat them. I mean, between this red plastic ball they call a tomato and a kit kat, why the hell would a kid not choose the kit kat ? Why would the exhausted parents fight again and again to force the kid to eat something themselves think taste bad ? Life is hard enough. - there are too many of us. To feed everyone we need to use use production, processing and distribution methods that lead to crappy food. Over population affects everything, from medical care quality to democracy. Food is no exception. - our culture is messed up. We made it so that eating meat was a social status indicator. So everybody started to want to it meat. Then everybody started to eat it every day. Producing meat is incredibly expensive, so we have to use tricks to produce such a quantity, which lead to terrible food again. - morality is an issue. I've work in OHS for some times. The amount of disgusting things that are done to food for profit is astonishing. And people just shut up. SEP field. If you photophop food for a living, if you participate to those marketing studies, if you work in a factory making crap, if you cook in a fast food, if you sign on contracts for bad food, if you code a website for an immoral actor, you are part of the problem. I know people have many constraint, and I don't pretend to have the moral high ground. I'm part of it as well. But my point is, we are responsible too.
  - 7y ago
- aries1980 7y ago
  Frozen vegetables are affordable in the UK: - 1KG broccoli, sprouts, cauliflower: £1.3 https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/282484692 https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/282484692 - 900g Green beans: £1.1 https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/282489813 https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/282489813 - 900g Spinach: £1.1 https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/282489773 https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/282489773 Dry legumes are also affordable: - Natco stuff are ok quality. 2kg mung, kidney, white beans are between £7-10: https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=natco+beans&ref=nb_sb_noss https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=natco+beans&ref=nb_sb_noss You can have a pretty decent vegan diet on £150/month/person. If you want to add fish oil or some basic vitamins add ~£10/month/person. At least my family spends no more than that. The National Minimum Wage is £7.83, which is about £1200/month after tax, you can do just fine with that in a village. In major cities, well, that's a different story, but who is to blame if you live in a property you can't afford? NMW is the same everywhere, but the property prices are not.
astura 7y ago
Here's the guidelines [pdf]: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/742746/A_quick_guide_to_govt_healthy_eating_update.pdf https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/...
- londons_explore 7y ago
  It's certainly possible, but not easy, to eat for £1 per meal to those guidelines. You'd have to go to big superstores to buy the cheapest veg, every week so it doesn't go bad, which would incur a few pounds and hours of travel time too. You'd need to own, have space for, and power a fridge and freezer too, so thats another £50 or so for electricity per year. That would put the total cost at £1100 per year per person, or £2530 per household (average size 2.3). The lowest decile of household income is £199 per week, so food accounts for 25% of income. Still pretty big...
  - aries1980 7y ago
    Those who earn £199 per week in one of the strongest economy, have bigger problem with their lifestyle than having their 5-a-day. They need professional help. Everyone else who earn at least the National Minimum Wage, being able to eat healthy is not a financial issue.

wongarsu 7y ago

Part of the advice [0] is "Over a third of the diet should come from fruit and vegetables". Also "Aim for at least two portions (2 x 140g) of fish a week". Neither of those two are necessarily cheap. However I don't see that approaching 74% of the income either when you choose sensible options for vegetables and fish. 0: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/742746/A_quick_guide_to_govt_healthy_eating_update.pdf https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/...

nradov 7y ago
Canned or frozen vegetables are quite cheap in most industrialized countries.
bobthepanda 7y ago
Interestingly enough, the FDA does not recommend eating more than 12 oz (~340g) of fish a week due to mercury concerns. https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-and-epa-issue-final-fish-consumption-advice https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-and-...
- jtuente 7y ago
  > This advice is geared toward helping women who are pregnant or may become pregnant – as well as breastfeeding mothers and parents of young children – make informed choices when it comes to fish that are healthy and safe to eat.
opportune 7y ago
Not sure how much food costs in the UK but that would cost $2-4 in the US if you satisfy that with canned sardines/tuna/salmon, or farmed tilapia. Vegetables are cheaper than most people think. I usually buy $1/lb frozen peas and $1.5/lb frozen broccoli. Washed and cut fresh carrots are also about $1.5/lb. Spinach and kale are not bad either. Just don't waste money on fresh vegetables, by the time you cook them they will probably be in worse condition than the frozen stuff. Fruits are probably the most expensive. The cheapest fruits don't even have great nutritional profiles other than fiber and maybe vitamin C (which not a lot of people know is actually abundant in many common vegetables).
sametmax 7y ago
Things like dried beans/peas, eggs, full grain rice, sunflower seeds, whole potatoes, green leafs, tomatoes, brassicaceaes, onions, apples, bananas and carrots can all be obtained at a fair price. You can cover a lot with these, and it's much better than fried chips and pasta. My take is more than: - a scary amount of people of my generation are completely uneducated about food. They don't know what a balanced diet is. They don't know how to cook. They don't know where to shop. They don't know how to choose a product. They don't know how much their health is affected by this. And they rather spend an hour on facebook than starting to figure it out. - food is hard. Our society make it harder: we have a huge quantity of low quality food at our disposal. We solved the starving problem, but replaced it with a malnutrition problem, aggravated with the desire to make money which lead to the promotion of shitty food and the production of it. Getting proper information on nutrition is a hell of confusion, contradictory messages, social pressure and guilt. - tasty balanced food is expensive and requires time + work + planning. Anybody can buy the stuff I talked about. But if you go to your usual supermarket and buy them, they will taste like crap. In fact, it's even hard to find nice food at the farmer market nowadays. So of course they don't want to eat them. I mean, between this red plastic ball they call a tomato and a kit kat, why the hell would a kid not choose the kit kat ? Why would the exhausted parents fight again and again to force the kid to eat something themselves think taste bad ? Life is hard enough. - there are too many of us. To feed everyone we need to use use production, processing and distribution methods that lead to crappy food. Over population affects everything, from medical care quality to democracy. Food is no exception. - our culture is messed up. We made it so that eating meat was a social status indicator. So everybody started to want to it meat. Then everybody started to eat it every day. Producing meat is incredibly expensive, so we have to use tricks to produce such a quantity, which lead to terrible food again. - morality is an issue. I've work in OHS for some times. The amount of disgusting things that are done to food for profit is astonishing. And people just shut up. SEP field. If you photophop food for a living, if you participate to those marketing studies, if you work in a factory making crap, if you cook in a fast food, if you sign on contracts for bad food, if you code a website for an immoral actor, you are part of the problem. I know people have many constraint, and I don't pretend to have the moral high ground. I'm part of it as well. But my point is, we are responsible too.
- 7y ago
aries1980 7y ago
Frozen vegetables are affordable in the UK: - 1KG broccoli, sprouts, cauliflower: £1.3 https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/282484692 https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/282484692 - 900g Green beans: £1.1 https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/282489813 https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/282489813 - 900g Spinach: £1.1 https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/282489773 https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/282489773 Dry legumes are also affordable: - Natco stuff are ok quality. 2kg mung, kidney, white beans are between £7-10: https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=natco+beans&ref=nb_sb_noss https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=natco+beans&ref=nb_sb_noss You can have a pretty decent vegan diet on £150/month/person. If you want to add fish oil or some basic vitamins add ~£10/month/person. At least my family spends no more than that. The National Minimum Wage is £7.83, which is about £1200/month after tax, you can do just fine with that in a village. In major cities, well, that's a different story, but who is to blame if you live in a property you can't afford? NMW is the same everywhere, but the property prices are not.

astura 7y ago

Here's the guidelines [pdf]: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/742746/A_quick_guide_to_govt_healthy_eating_update.pdf https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/...

londons_explore 7y ago
It's certainly possible, but not easy, to eat for £1 per meal to those guidelines. You'd have to go to big superstores to buy the cheapest veg, every week so it doesn't go bad, which would incur a few pounds and hours of travel time too. You'd need to own, have space for, and power a fridge and freezer too, so thats another £50 or so for electricity per year. That would put the total cost at £1100 per year per person, or £2530 per household (average size 2.3). The lowest decile of household income is £199 per week, so food accounts for 25% of income. Still pretty big...
- aries1980 7y ago
  Those who earn £199 per week in one of the strongest economy, have bigger problem with their lifestyle than having their 5-a-day. They need professional help. Everyone else who earn at least the National Minimum Wage, being able to eat healthy is not a financial issue.