7 ms·

I'm a little surprised people without green cards are allowed to purchase homes in the US at all.

by Causality1 7y ago

pmiller2 7y ago
Why? Nothing says “permanent resident” like, well, a permanent residence.
- darkpuma 7y ago
  > Why? Reasonable (but in this particular case unfounded) cynicality?
  - inlined 7y ago
    1. Visas aren’t permanent. My best friend renewed his H1B, ran through that renewal, and had to spend a year out of the country to reapply (all while in line for a green card) 2. Given the finite nature of real estate, especially in metro areas, (vacant) investment property harms the residents Counterpoint: at least in AZ there is a tax for foreign buyers.
    - Gibbon1 7y ago
      I think it doesn't help in the current 'lootacracy' where zero interest central banks loans are being used to jack up the price of existing real property. Vs historically where foreign money finances development and upgrading of real property.
- diogenescynic 7y ago
  OP said “without”.
seanmcdirmid 7y ago
America has mostly a free market, so why would you expect otherwise? America doesn’t have a hukou system, nor restrictions on internal residency, so why would they distinguish between residents when buying property?
- nrb 7y ago
  Because foreign investment in real estate can massively distort prices for domestic market participants, which can lead to a variety of other negative affects for the communities affected by that investment. One could argue the same applies to investment properties by Americans who do not live in those communities, but it seems like an acceptable line to draw I suppose.
  - seanmcdirmid 7y ago
    They simply don’t have the framework to regulate those kinds of things, however. And it doesn’t really fit with the economic liberalism that has been pretty constant since it’s founding.
    - rhacker 7y ago
      It is kinda weird though - if an alien race basically arrived with trillions of gold bricks and started buying US properties (and obviously not showing how many gold bricks they had or that they were aliens) there would be an effective take-over of the country. There would be absolutely "rich" people with gold bricks in their trunks driving around realizing they can't actually buy other homes. edit - I'm talking about space aliens because hey ;)
      - H8crilA 7y ago
        It would kill the price of gold, as its only point is the scarcity and deflationary behavior. Nobody really needs gold. But now imagine they arrive with cool cancer curing technology and want trade it for some real estate. The deal is not so bad, is it?
  - H8crilA 7y ago
    Same applies for the stock market (foreign money is pushing it up, increasing the costs at which retirement funds purchase equities). But yeah world's finance is heavily interlocked.
benrbray 7y ago
I'm an American and it's dawned on me recently how absolutely bonkers it is that we see housing--a basic human need--as something to make a profit from. Foreign-owned houses/land left vacant for most of the year is definitely a symptom of this problem.
- JMTQp8lwXL 7y ago
  Housing held for investment, which is usually rented out, is tied to the economic realities (e.g., wages) of a given area. People can only afford to pay so much. You can always choose to rent or buy. Prices to buy are quite high in hot markets. But the cost to rent will be tied to wages. So, the basic human need should still be getting met. Ownership, though, is becoming a smaller and smaller pool-- which meets the ongoing trend of progressively growing income inequality.
  - alexgmcm 7y ago
    This is a timebomb though - how is a generation that hasn't been able to buy a house and accumulate equity/wealth, meant to be able to retire?
    - JMTQp8lwXL 7y ago
      Compare the delta between what you'd spend on rent versus a mortgage (all in costs-- principal, interest, taxes, and insurance. "PITI", they are collectively called). Take the difference and invest it. I'll admit this won't work for everybody, since behaviorally most people spend their whole paycheck (without saving any of it), but there are plenty of low-cost index fund providers that have minimum investment requirements far below the cost of putting 20% down on a house.
      - asdff 7y ago
        There is no house in LA where you can't take an arbitrary 10 year period and make money even if you bought in 2007 on the eve of the recession. We've reached the point where even putting 5% down on the median house is unaffordable to massive swaths of the population in southern california. The median is 600k now, who the hell can afford to drop 30k in a world where the median student loan debt is 40k? Not to mention something like 40% of americans can't come up with $400 cash without selling something or taking out a loan. Of course you save on a mortgage, in LA you profit on nearly every mortgage no matter what. But that benefit is limited to the class of people who can afford to put money down, and that class is a minority in CA.
brighter2morrow 7y ago
The whole green card thing is just a legal niceity. Nowadays a Chinese can you just show up at the US southern border saying they're a refugee of the Syrian civil war and bada-bing bada-boom they're now on easy street.
- denvrede 7y ago
  This on HN? Really?
- C1sc0cat 7y ago
  I doubt that even the dumbest Border agent would fall for that one.
- dang 7y ago
  We just asked you yesterday to stop posting flamebait to HN. If you keep doing this we will ban you. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
newshorts 7y ago
It’s not hard for foreign investors to get a greencard anyway. You just need to invest $500k.
- selimthegrim 7y ago
  Depends where - see my post here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20501568 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20501568
aatharuv 7y ago
There are lots of people without green cards or citizenship who actually can live in houses they buy. -- People on H1B visas -- People here as students. Okay, they'd have to have rich parents, but some times it makes economic sense -- Other people here for the long term but not necessarily having green cards (people here as refugees, for example).

I'm a little surprised people without green cards are allowed to purchase homes in the US at all.

pmiller2 7y ago

Why? Nothing says “permanent resident” like, well, a permanent residence.

darkpuma 7y ago
> Why? Reasonable (but in this particular case unfounded) cynicality?
- inlined 7y ago
  1. Visas aren’t permanent. My best friend renewed his H1B, ran through that renewal, and had to spend a year out of the country to reapply (all while in line for a green card) 2. Given the finite nature of real estate, especially in metro areas, (vacant) investment property harms the residents Counterpoint: at least in AZ there is a tax for foreign buyers.
  - Gibbon1 7y ago
    I think it doesn't help in the current 'lootacracy' where zero interest central banks loans are being used to jack up the price of existing real property. Vs historically where foreign money finances development and upgrading of real property.
diogenescynic 7y ago
OP said “without”.

seanmcdirmid 7y ago

America has mostly a free market, so why would you expect otherwise? America doesn’t have a hukou system, nor restrictions on internal residency, so why would they distinguish between residents when buying property?

nrb 7y ago
Because foreign investment in real estate can massively distort prices for domestic market participants, which can lead to a variety of other negative affects for the communities affected by that investment. One could argue the same applies to investment properties by Americans who do not live in those communities, but it seems like an acceptable line to draw I suppose.
- seanmcdirmid 7y ago
  They simply don’t have the framework to regulate those kinds of things, however. And it doesn’t really fit with the economic liberalism that has been pretty constant since it’s founding.
  - rhacker 7y ago
    It is kinda weird though - if an alien race basically arrived with trillions of gold bricks and started buying US properties (and obviously not showing how many gold bricks they had or that they were aliens) there would be an effective take-over of the country. There would be absolutely "rich" people with gold bricks in their trunks driving around realizing they can't actually buy other homes. edit - I'm talking about space aliens because hey ;)
    - H8crilA 7y ago
      It would kill the price of gold, as its only point is the scarcity and deflationary behavior. Nobody really needs gold. But now imagine they arrive with cool cancer curing technology and want trade it for some real estate. The deal is not so bad, is it?
- H8crilA 7y ago
  Same applies for the stock market (foreign money is pushing it up, increasing the costs at which retirement funds purchase equities). But yeah world's finance is heavily interlocked.

benrbray 7y ago

I'm an American and it's dawned on me recently how absolutely bonkers it is that we see housing--a basic human need--as something to make a profit from. Foreign-owned houses/land left vacant for most of the year is definitely a symptom of this problem.

JMTQp8lwXL 7y ago
Housing held for investment, which is usually rented out, is tied to the economic realities (e.g., wages) of a given area. People can only afford to pay so much. You can always choose to rent or buy. Prices to buy are quite high in hot markets. But the cost to rent will be tied to wages. So, the basic human need should still be getting met. Ownership, though, is becoming a smaller and smaller pool-- which meets the ongoing trend of progressively growing income inequality.
- alexgmcm 7y ago
  This is a timebomb though - how is a generation that hasn't been able to buy a house and accumulate equity/wealth, meant to be able to retire?
  - JMTQp8lwXL 7y ago
    Compare the delta between what you'd spend on rent versus a mortgage (all in costs-- principal, interest, taxes, and insurance. "PITI", they are collectively called). Take the difference and invest it. I'll admit this won't work for everybody, since behaviorally most people spend their whole paycheck (without saving any of it), but there are plenty of low-cost index fund providers that have minimum investment requirements far below the cost of putting 20% down on a house.
    - asdff 7y ago
      There is no house in LA where you can't take an arbitrary 10 year period and make money even if you bought in 2007 on the eve of the recession. We've reached the point where even putting 5% down on the median house is unaffordable to massive swaths of the population in southern california. The median is 600k now, who the hell can afford to drop 30k in a world where the median student loan debt is 40k? Not to mention something like 40% of americans can't come up with $400 cash without selling something or taking out a loan. Of course you save on a mortgage, in LA you profit on nearly every mortgage no matter what. But that benefit is limited to the class of people who can afford to put money down, and that class is a minority in CA.

brighter2morrow 7y ago

The whole green card thing is just a legal niceity. Nowadays a Chinese can you just show up at the US southern border saying they're a refugee of the Syrian civil war and bada-bing bada-boom they're now on easy street.

denvrede 7y ago
This on HN? Really?
C1sc0cat 7y ago
I doubt that even the dumbest Border agent would fall for that one.
dang 7y ago
We just asked you yesterday to stop posting flamebait to HN. If you keep doing this we will ban you. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

newshorts 7y ago

It’s not hard for foreign investors to get a greencard anyway. You just need to invest $500k.

selimthegrim 7y ago
Depends where - see my post here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20501568 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20501568

aatharuv 7y ago

There are lots of people without green cards or citizenship who actually can live in houses they buy. -- People on H1B visas -- People here as students. Okay, they'd have to have rich parents, but some times it makes economic sense -- Other people here for the long term but not necessarily having green cards (people here as refugees, for example).