7 ms·

Why not regulate junk food advertising? I don't watch much television, but when I do, it's shocking to see how normalized unhealthy food is in society.

by gomez9 7y ago

jMyles 7y ago
Jumping straight to prohibiting certain messages and / or their delivery is shocking to me. Free expression (even from vile creeps like Ronald McDonald) and public health are both important.
- gomez9 7y ago
  Tobacco and alcohol advertising is already heavily regulated. Makes little sense why these same standards should not be applied to food, especially when obesity's impact on society is far worse.
  - jMyles 7y ago
    I want to suggest that it was also wrongheaded to censor tobacco and alcohol advertising.
    - danmaz74 7y ago
      Is it ok to censor porn ads in kids TV programs?
      - jMyles 7y ago
        In a mature and thoughtful society, with robust communities committed to stimulating and attentive care for kids, yes I think it's preferable to take a super conservative approach to censoring content and instead to spend enough time directly with kids (our own and those of our friends and neighbors) to help them navigate the minefield of content that exists in the world. I am hopeful that that's the world we're cultivating.
        danmaz74 7y ago
        I'm sorry but it's not clear to me - do you mean that in that case censorship is allowed, or not? In case it wasn't clear, my point is that no-censorship-whatsoever just can't work in the real world. You always have to draw a line somewhere.
    - jimbokun 7y ago
      Why?
      - jMyles 7y ago
        I think that in order for our world to be peaceful and tolerant, we need to be extremely restrained in what expression we use the heavy hand of government to censor. I don't like tobacco or alcohol advertising, but I want to be able to live in a society with content I don't like (or even that I find dangerous) and still be healthy. I think that's important for the information age.
- qntty 7y ago
  I'm a pretty strong supporter of free speech, but I don't see how it's relevant when you're talking about the speech of corporations.
- bancars 7y ago
  The first amendment only covers political speech. The government can and does censor things like profanity and pornography (there’s a reason why you can’t say “fuck” on the radio). Advertising isn’t political speech and wouldn’t (and shouldn’t) be protected. Considering that advertising is basically psychological manipulation to get you to buy products, especially products which directly prey on your lizard brain things like hunger, I see no reason not to censor junk food advertisements. It worked with cigarettes.
  - qntty 7y ago
    Not true, the first amendment is about more than political speech. See this article for a little of the history of free speech: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/12/two-concepts-of-freedom-of-speech/546791/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/12/two-con... [Note in particular: After all, the genius of the First Amendment lies in bringing isegoria and parrhesia together, by securing the equal right and liberty of citizens not simply to “exercise their reason” but to speak their minds.]
  - jMyles 7y ago
    > The first amendment only covers political speech. This opinion terrifies me. I'm grateful that so few people, including those in a position to decide on government restraint (ie, SCOTUS, etc), agree with you. In your ideal world (where the text of the 1st amendment is interpreted as you propose), how do you prevent the government from simply labeling any speech it doesn't like as "non-political" and then censoring it?
- pwinnski 7y ago
  This seems like a shockingly naive viewpoint given what we know about human susceptibility to advertising. Consumers consider consider themselves too smart to be fooled by advertising, and yet advertisers spend billions every year because they know advertising works. It's that gap in understanding that makes advertisements insidious.
  - jMyles 7y ago
    We all agree that this is the problem, but the elusive solution seems to be the field on which we disagree. I prefer to take an extremely restrained approach to state-backed restrictioins content and instead focus on empowering people to recognize when they are being manipulated and resist being fooled. My concern is that the state-based censorship approach won't last long into the information age, and that if we haven't developed robust protections within our communities by then (against the full exposure of "bad" content) then the effects may be worse for the wear.
    - pwinnski 7y ago
      The naive part, then, is the idea that we can develop robust protections within our communities. At the risk of invoking "think of the children," our communities are ever-evolving, and the most vulnerable members are replenished regularly. I'd love to believe that we could, as a community, make wise choices, but reality demonstrates otherwise. I'm very much loathe to grant the government yet more ability to restrict content, but there is no doubt that television advertising bans on alcohol and tobacco are effective[0], so I definitely understand the desire to enact similar restrictions around unhealthy foods given their societal costs. I think the line is too fuzzy for me to be comfortable, but I'd rather go that direction than re-introducing tobacco advertising knowing that doing so will result in a reversal of the positive benefits. [0] https://www.nber.org/reporter/winter04/saffer.html https://www.nber.org/reporter/winter04/saffer.html
save_ferris 7y ago
The problem is the lack of access to quality, affordable, nutritious food. Food deserts are a huge problem in many parts of the US, where lower income households simply don’t have access to healthy food. I don’t see how regulating advertising solves this problem.
- qntty 7y ago
  What's available is an important factor in what people choose, but ultimately people have to make a choice between good and bad food. Little kids are especially vulnerable to fast food ads and people develop their eating habits when they are young.
- maximente 7y ago
  > The problem is the lack of access to quality, affordable, nutritious food not buying this - lentils are a nearly complete protein, don't really expire, certainly aren't expensive, and i don't think could be viewed as anything but healthy
  - okmokmz 7y ago
    That is a very real problem. It's commonly referred to as a food desert https://www.cdc.gov/healthcommunication/toolstemplates/entertainmented/index.html?CDC_AA_refVal=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cdc.gov%2Fhealthcommunication%2Ftoolstemplates%2Fentertainmented%2Ftips%2FFoodDesert.html https://www.cdc.gov/healthcommunication/toolstemplates/enter... http://americannutritionassociation.org/newsletter/usda-defines-food-deserts http://americannutritionassociation.org/newsletter/usda-defi...
  - jimbokun 7y ago
    1. How many people know that about lentils? 2. Can you buy lentils at the convenience stores most accessible to people in "food deserts"?
    - ng12 7y ago
      Lentils aren't magic, there's plenty of foods like this -- pasta, rice and beans, oatmeal. Most of them are sold at convenience stores in urban areas.
bancars 7y ago
Follow the money.

Why not regulate junk food advertising? I don't watch much television, but when I do, it's shocking to see how normalized unhealthy food is in society.

by gomez9 7y ago

Why not regulate junk food advertising? I don't watch much television, but when I do, it's shocking to see how normalized unhealthy food is in society.

jMyles 7y ago

Jumping straight to prohibiting certain messages and / or their delivery is shocking to me. Free expression (even from vile creeps like Ronald McDonald) and public health are both important.

gomez9 7y ago
Tobacco and alcohol advertising is already heavily regulated. Makes little sense why these same standards should not be applied to food, especially when obesity's impact on society is far worse.
- jMyles 7y ago
  I want to suggest that it was also wrongheaded to censor tobacco and alcohol advertising.
  - danmaz74 7y ago
    Is it ok to censor porn ads in kids TV programs?
    - jMyles 7y ago
      In a mature and thoughtful society, with robust communities committed to stimulating and attentive care for kids, yes I think it's preferable to take a super conservative approach to censoring content and instead to spend enough time directly with kids (our own and those of our friends and neighbors) to help them navigate the minefield of content that exists in the world. I am hopeful that that's the world we're cultivating.
      - danmaz74 7y ago
        I'm sorry but it's not clear to me - do you mean that in that case censorship is allowed, or not? In case it wasn't clear, my point is that no-censorship-whatsoever just can't work in the real world. You always have to draw a line somewhere.
  - jimbokun 7y ago
    Why?
    - jMyles 7y ago
      I think that in order for our world to be peaceful and tolerant, we need to be extremely restrained in what expression we use the heavy hand of government to censor. I don't like tobacco or alcohol advertising, but I want to be able to live in a society with content I don't like (or even that I find dangerous) and still be healthy. I think that's important for the information age.
qntty 7y ago
I'm a pretty strong supporter of free speech, but I don't see how it's relevant when you're talking about the speech of corporations.
bancars 7y ago
The first amendment only covers political speech. The government can and does censor things like profanity and pornography (there’s a reason why you can’t say “fuck” on the radio). Advertising isn’t political speech and wouldn’t (and shouldn’t) be protected. Considering that advertising is basically psychological manipulation to get you to buy products, especially products which directly prey on your lizard brain things like hunger, I see no reason not to censor junk food advertisements. It worked with cigarettes.
- qntty 7y ago
  Not true, the first amendment is about more than political speech. See this article for a little of the history of free speech: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/12/two-concepts-of-freedom-of-speech/546791/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/12/two-con... [Note in particular: After all, the genius of the First Amendment lies in bringing isegoria and parrhesia together, by securing the equal right and liberty of citizens not simply to “exercise their reason” but to speak their minds.]
- jMyles 7y ago
  > The first amendment only covers political speech. This opinion terrifies me. I'm grateful that so few people, including those in a position to decide on government restraint (ie, SCOTUS, etc), agree with you. In your ideal world (where the text of the 1st amendment is interpreted as you propose), how do you prevent the government from simply labeling any speech it doesn't like as "non-political" and then censoring it?
pwinnski 7y ago
This seems like a shockingly naive viewpoint given what we know about human susceptibility to advertising. Consumers consider consider themselves too smart to be fooled by advertising, and yet advertisers spend billions every year because they know advertising works. It's that gap in understanding that makes advertisements insidious.
- jMyles 7y ago
  We all agree that this is the problem, but the elusive solution seems to be the field on which we disagree. I prefer to take an extremely restrained approach to state-backed restrictioins content and instead focus on empowering people to recognize when they are being manipulated and resist being fooled. My concern is that the state-based censorship approach won't last long into the information age, and that if we haven't developed robust protections within our communities by then (against the full exposure of "bad" content) then the effects may be worse for the wear.
  - pwinnski 7y ago
    The naive part, then, is the idea that we can develop robust protections within our communities. At the risk of invoking "think of the children," our communities are ever-evolving, and the most vulnerable members are replenished regularly. I'd love to believe that we could, as a community, make wise choices, but reality demonstrates otherwise. I'm very much loathe to grant the government yet more ability to restrict content, but there is no doubt that television advertising bans on alcohol and tobacco are effective[0], so I definitely understand the desire to enact similar restrictions around unhealthy foods given their societal costs. I think the line is too fuzzy for me to be comfortable, but I'd rather go that direction than re-introducing tobacco advertising knowing that doing so will result in a reversal of the positive benefits. [0] https://www.nber.org/reporter/winter04/saffer.html https://www.nber.org/reporter/winter04/saffer.html

save_ferris 7y ago

The problem is the lack of access to quality, affordable, nutritious food. Food deserts are a huge problem in many parts of the US, where lower income households simply don’t have access to healthy food. I don’t see how regulating advertising solves this problem.

qntty 7y ago
What's available is an important factor in what people choose, but ultimately people have to make a choice between good and bad food. Little kids are especially vulnerable to fast food ads and people develop their eating habits when they are young.
maximente 7y ago
> The problem is the lack of access to quality, affordable, nutritious food not buying this - lentils are a nearly complete protein, don't really expire, certainly aren't expensive, and i don't think could be viewed as anything but healthy
- okmokmz 7y ago
  That is a very real problem. It's commonly referred to as a food desert https://www.cdc.gov/healthcommunication/toolstemplates/entertainmented/index.html?CDC_AA_refVal=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cdc.gov%2Fhealthcommunication%2Ftoolstemplates%2Fentertainmented%2Ftips%2FFoodDesert.html https://www.cdc.gov/healthcommunication/toolstemplates/enter... http://americannutritionassociation.org/newsletter/usda-defines-food-deserts http://americannutritionassociation.org/newsletter/usda-defi...
- jimbokun 7y ago
  1. How many people know that about lentils? 2. Can you buy lentils at the convenience stores most accessible to people in "food deserts"?
  - ng12 7y ago
    Lentils aren't magic, there's plenty of foods like this -- pasta, rice and beans, oatmeal. Most of them are sold at convenience stores in urban areas.

bancars 7y ago

Follow the money.