10 ms·

> pressured to take shortcuts I work in software, and this happens all the time and it is not the end of the world. It normally means doing even more work lat

> pressured to take shortcuts I work in software, and this happens all the time and it is not the end of the world. It normally means doing even more work later, or shipping without all the features. Its done by not coding in most cases. But this is a car. What sort of shortcut could you make when assembling parts to a car that has already had every part planed out? Edit: never-mind, I skipped a entire paragraph somehow. Tape, it is tape guys.

wil421 7y ago
It seems like another shortcut they took was over automation. Looks like some areas are better off with a human. Can robots apply tape?
- api 7y ago
  The general contention among all the manufacturing people I've talked to or read is that Tesla went way too crazy with automation and wasted a lot of money. They vastly overestimated the capabilities of current manufacturing automation tech at scale.
noonespecial 7y ago
That's fantastic. I just love what happens to electrical tape in hot cars. I can't wait to reach up into there to try to fix something a few years from now.
stefco_ 7y ago
What concerns me is that shortcuts in industrial manufacturing processes are often directly detrimental or even fatal to workers. Heavy industry uses toxic chemicals and large, powerful machinery; cutting corners around those things is actively dangerous. Using some electrical tape in places where you'd otherwise use shrink tubing is not a big deal. But like you said, trying to cut corners on a finished hardware design sounds orders of magnitude harder than doing so on software, and I worry about what else workers are being forced to do to cover for management's failures. [edit] added word "else" for clarity
- noonespecial 7y ago
  >Using some electrical tape in places where you'd otherwise use shrink tubing is not a big deal. The article says that they used electrical tape from Walmart on a bracket that holds the cameras for Autopilot. I've used some Walmart etape... that's a big deal.
  - cptskippy 7y ago
    No, the article says "this photo shows tape applied to a segment of a white plastic housing where it holds “triple cam” connections in place". It's a wiring harness, not a camera mount.
  - Datenstrom 7y ago
    I do not know about cars but using electrical tape on aircraft is absolutely not allowed. Unlike in most electronics vehicles deal with vibration, improper wire routing will cause chafing against any surface it touches over time causing exposed wires and shorts in the best case. Zip ties are obviously not allowed because they would cause chafing themselves, electrical tape will likely come come undone after some years. I have seen cheap electrical tape do so before with age. I can't imagine cars do not deal with a level of vibration that would cause this.
    - cptskippy 7y ago
      I've seen plenty of factory installed electrical tape in engine bays of cars. It's not uncommon. That being said the circumstances around the usage in the article are very different and just because electrical tape can be safe when used properly doesn't mean its safe in the case reported used at Tesla.
    - dsfyu404ed 7y ago
      I know the internet really loves muh aerospace standards but there's reasons vehicles that travel in two dimensions don't need to abide by those standards. It would be prohibitively expensive and overkill most of the time. There's tons of stuff that isn't allowed on aircraft and a lot of it traces back to being able to verify/inspect what was done and allowing a chain of custody so problems can be traced to the source. This isn't as necessary for two dimensional vehicles that only last 20yr. Zip ties are mostly not allowed for QC reasons. Some people will crank them tight and some won't. They won't really cause much chafing if properly installed because the wires shouldn't be moving enough to chafe. There's tons and tons and tons of aftermarket wiring in work trucks out there that's been installed with zip ties and it's not any less reliable than OEM wiring. All but the worst electrical tape will take 20+yr to come apart even in an automotive environment. It should take longer on an EV that isn't going to have as many sources of oil leaks in old age. I still wouldn't want to use it for anything other than bundling wires though. As an aside, I've worked on aircraft (GA) and on cars and your average car sees more vibration but obviously if things fall apart in the air it's a bigger deal.
kosievdmerwe 7y ago
It's disingenious to say it's just tape. Here's a paragraph from the article: > Five people who work or worked in the tent in 2019 said they would frequently pass cars down the line that they knew were missing a few bolts, nuts or lugs, all in the name of saving time. There are many more things discussed too under the heading "Other short cuts"

wil421 7y ago

It seems like another shortcut they took was over automation. Looks like some areas are better off with a human. Can robots apply tape?

api 7y ago
The general contention among all the manufacturing people I've talked to or read is that Tesla went way too crazy with automation and wasted a lot of money. They vastly overestimated the capabilities of current manufacturing automation tech at scale.

noonespecial 7y ago

That's fantastic. I just love what happens to electrical tape in hot cars. I can't wait to reach up into there to try to fix something a few years from now.

stefco_ 7y ago

What concerns me is that shortcuts in industrial manufacturing processes are often directly detrimental or even fatal to workers. Heavy industry uses toxic chemicals and large, powerful machinery; cutting corners around those things is actively dangerous. Using some electrical tape in places where you'd otherwise use shrink tubing is not a big deal. But like you said, trying to cut corners on a finished hardware design sounds orders of magnitude harder than doing so on software, and I worry about what else workers are being forced to do to cover for management's failures. [edit] added word "else" for clarity

noonespecial 7y ago
>Using some electrical tape in places where you'd otherwise use shrink tubing is not a big deal. The article says that they used electrical tape from Walmart on a bracket that holds the cameras for Autopilot. I've used some Walmart etape... that's a big deal.
- cptskippy 7y ago
  No, the article says "this photo shows tape applied to a segment of a white plastic housing where it holds “triple cam” connections in place". It's a wiring harness, not a camera mount.
- Datenstrom 7y ago
  I do not know about cars but using electrical tape on aircraft is absolutely not allowed. Unlike in most electronics vehicles deal with vibration, improper wire routing will cause chafing against any surface it touches over time causing exposed wires and shorts in the best case. Zip ties are obviously not allowed because they would cause chafing themselves, electrical tape will likely come come undone after some years. I have seen cheap electrical tape do so before with age. I can't imagine cars do not deal with a level of vibration that would cause this.
  - cptskippy 7y ago
    I've seen plenty of factory installed electrical tape in engine bays of cars. It's not uncommon. That being said the circumstances around the usage in the article are very different and just because electrical tape can be safe when used properly doesn't mean its safe in the case reported used at Tesla.
  - dsfyu404ed 7y ago
    I know the internet really loves muh aerospace standards but there's reasons vehicles that travel in two dimensions don't need to abide by those standards. It would be prohibitively expensive and overkill most of the time. There's tons of stuff that isn't allowed on aircraft and a lot of it traces back to being able to verify/inspect what was done and allowing a chain of custody so problems can be traced to the source. This isn't as necessary for two dimensional vehicles that only last 20yr. Zip ties are mostly not allowed for QC reasons. Some people will crank them tight and some won't. They won't really cause much chafing if properly installed because the wires shouldn't be moving enough to chafe. There's tons and tons and tons of aftermarket wiring in work trucks out there that's been installed with zip ties and it's not any less reliable than OEM wiring. All but the worst electrical tape will take 20+yr to come apart even in an automotive environment. It should take longer on an EV that isn't going to have as many sources of oil leaks in old age. I still wouldn't want to use it for anything other than bundling wires though. As an aside, I've worked on aircraft (GA) and on cars and your average car sees more vibration but obviously if things fall apart in the air it's a bigger deal.

kosievdmerwe 7y ago

It's disingenious to say it's just tape. Here's a paragraph from the article: > Five people who work or worked in the tent in 2019 said they would frequently pass cars down the line that they knew were missing a few bolts, nuts or lugs, all in the name of saving time. There are many more things discussed too under the heading "Other short cuts"