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I've had a USB-C capable device (MBP) for a few years now, and it originally was extremely annoying. Needing dongles for _everything_ was annoying, and getting

I've had a USB-C capable device (MBP) for a few years now, and it originally was extremely annoying. Needing dongles for _everything_ was annoying, and getting rid of Magsafe meant a lot of my existing chargers that I'd accumulated no longer worked. My work laptop (at the time) didn't use USB-C, so I had to keep two chargers around, and I couldn't charge my iPhone from my laptop at all. Fast forward a few years and I think it's great. I have a dock at home that I can plug both my work and personal laptop in and have it work seamlessly with two 4k monitors, gigabit ethernet, mouse, keyboard, speakers, etc. After biting the bullet and getting some USB C -> Lightning cables, I actually need to carry fewer chargers, fewer cables and everything sort of just works. The new iPad Pro helps a lot with that as well. USB PD means that everything charges faster, as well. USB-C is sort of a nightmare until it's not, and that transition is basically an entire product cycle (or two) for people, which means a lot of time. At some point, I hope that issues like this become more identified in software (as mentioned), and cheap USB C cables that only have 2.0 support are less common. Furthermore, while there was once a point where the physical layer matched up well enough with product support, actually connecting a display has always been a pain in the ass. Devices are still shipping with VGA ports because of it - USB-C is no panacea, but I think it's a huge improvement in aggregate.

deleted 7y ago
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msbarnett 7y ago
With a MacBook Pro it’s not so bad, because rather than try to save a few cents Apple wired every USB-C port for everything that it supports, so there’s no real distinction between ports (but you still need to distinguish between very similar looking cables that handle, say USB 3.0 in one case and an active TB3 40 Gbps in another) It’s at the low end of the market that USB-C is an entire mess. This port on your laptop can connect to the charger, but this one doesn’t. All of them do 3.0, but this one does 3.1. This one does DisplayPort but not that one. None do Thunderbolt 3 but you had to read the specs twice and guess that from the fact it’s just not mentioned. Hard for regular consumers to understand, and remember, when it all looks the same.
- manacit 7y ago
  If I'm remembering correctly, it's not that far off from the (blue?) color coding with the USB A connector to indicate USB 3 support for particular ports? Either way, when power gets involved as well, that is a terrible user experience. I had a friend bring over a Dell laptop with a USB C port that I naively assumed had TB3 support (it was listed as being "optional" on Dell's website). Turns out that the only way to actually know was to either watch it not work with a Dock, or to go into the BIOS and witness some missing settings that indicated TB3 support was not present. For better or for worse, though, that's a manufacturer problem - they could have easily just not allowed _any_ USB C charging and stuck with an AC adapter, or spent the extra coin to make all of the ports work with a TB controller, etc. Companies have been making user-hostile decisions in the name of cost cuttings (1366x768 screens in 2018) forever, it seems like USB C is just another avenue for that.
  - vxNsr 7y ago
    My understanding of Dell's implementation is that the TB port has a little thunderbolt next to it while the usb-c one doesn't.
    - Dylan16807 7y ago
      Not to be confused with the little thunderbolt next to some USB ports that indicates charging capability.
      - vmlinuz 7y ago
        Clearly, that's a lightning bolt rather than a thunderbolt. Very very frightening. Not to be confused with Apple's Lightning connector, of course...
  - bscphil 7y ago
    > For better or for worse, though, that's a manufacturer problem - they could have easily just not allowed _any_ USB C charging and stuck with an AC adapter For what it's worth, I personally would be thrilled by such a decision. I'm against having my power supplied through a data cable and data port. In theory it's safe, of course, but in practice people have fried equipment with bad cables. It's a hard standard to get right. It's as if we were all using Rust for systems programming up until 2016, when we all switched to C because it was "more powerful". In theory you can write safe C. In practice ... I also think display connections should have their own interface. It needlessly complicates the protocol when we already have perfectly good connectors for this, HDMI, micro-HDMI, Displayport... USB should be a dumb protocol with a passive cable. The only distinguishing feature between different USB C cables should be transfer speed, and different rates should be given a clearly labeled version number and distinguishing color, like USB 3.1, 3.2 etc. Of course no one's actually going to implement this, probably the companies involved profit off of incompatibilities. Whenever you have to buy a new cable or new device because it's not supported by the old standard, it's proof this approach is winning.
Ductapemaster 7y ago
Out of curiosity, what USB-C dock do you have? I am in the market for one.
- manacit 7y ago
  I (and a number of people I know) have a CalDigit TS3+ and it's worked extremely well for me: https://www.caldigit.com/ts3-plus https://www.caldigit.com/ts3-plus I can't speak to what else is on the market, but there's not more I'd want from this.
  - Rebelgecko 7y ago
    Can second the recommendation. When I was looking, I think it was the only USB-C/TB3 dock that supported multiple 4k displays at 60hz (one via Displayport and one via a USB-C to Displayport adapter). Their website looked a bit fly-by-night, but I've been happy with the product. The only issue I've had is that my Macbook sometimes flips my two displays, but I believe that's an OS problem.
  - beaugunderson 7y ago
    Damn, it looks perfect except that it can't do 4k @ 144hz (but to be fair I haven't found a hub that can, only one-off USB-C to DP connectors).
- brandonmenc 7y ago
  I have the OWC Thunderbolt 3 Dock and it also works perfectly. https://www.owcdigital.com/products/thunderbolt-3-dock-14-port https://www.owcdigital.com/products/thunderbolt-3-dock-14-po...
llampx 7y ago
Paying for extra stuff and more expensive cables, for what benefit again? I could throw out all my USB peripherals and buy new ones that use USB type C, but at the end what have I achieved aside from setting a few $100 bills on fire?
- manacit 7y ago
  For me, it's the difference between having to plug in at least 5 things when I set my laptop down at my desk (or use a very specific dock that only works with a single size and model of laptop) to just plugging USB C in and having my laptop charge and function with every device. This is worth the price of admission, though the decision was made for me by Apple. Beyond that, the additional wattage that USB C PD provides means that I can charge my iPhone and iPad significantly faster than even with Apple's "fast" 12W charger previously. This is really nice when I am traveling or just forgot to charge my iPhone. In addition, now that more devices are coming with USB C support, I can charge everything from my laptop to my Bose headphones with the same cable and charger, which would have not been possible before.
JohnFen 7y ago
> I have a dock at home that I can plug both my work and personal laptop in and have it work seamlessly with two 4k monitors, gigabit ethernet, mouse, keyboard, speakers, etc. Umm, so do I, but USB-C isn't involved.

deleted 7y ago

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msbarnett 7y ago

With a MacBook Pro it’s not so bad, because rather than try to save a few cents Apple wired every USB-C port for everything that it supports, so there’s no real distinction between ports (but you still need to distinguish between very similar looking cables that handle, say USB 3.0 in one case and an active TB3 40 Gbps in another) It’s at the low end of the market that USB-C is an entire mess. This port on your laptop can connect to the charger, but this one doesn’t. All of them do 3.0, but this one does 3.1. This one does DisplayPort but not that one. None do Thunderbolt 3 but you had to read the specs twice and guess that from the fact it’s just not mentioned. Hard for regular consumers to understand, and remember, when it all looks the same.

manacit 7y ago
If I'm remembering correctly, it's not that far off from the (blue?) color coding with the USB A connector to indicate USB 3 support for particular ports? Either way, when power gets involved as well, that is a terrible user experience. I had a friend bring over a Dell laptop with a USB C port that I naively assumed had TB3 support (it was listed as being "optional" on Dell's website). Turns out that the only way to actually know was to either watch it not work with a Dock, or to go into the BIOS and witness some missing settings that indicated TB3 support was not present. For better or for worse, though, that's a manufacturer problem - they could have easily just not allowed _any_ USB C charging and stuck with an AC adapter, or spent the extra coin to make all of the ports work with a TB controller, etc. Companies have been making user-hostile decisions in the name of cost cuttings (1366x768 screens in 2018) forever, it seems like USB C is just another avenue for that.
- vxNsr 7y ago
  My understanding of Dell's implementation is that the TB port has a little thunderbolt next to it while the usb-c one doesn't.
  - Dylan16807 7y ago
    Not to be confused with the little thunderbolt next to some USB ports that indicates charging capability.
    - vmlinuz 7y ago
      Clearly, that's a lightning bolt rather than a thunderbolt. Very very frightening. Not to be confused with Apple's Lightning connector, of course...
- bscphil 7y ago
  > For better or for worse, though, that's a manufacturer problem - they could have easily just not allowed _any_ USB C charging and stuck with an AC adapter For what it's worth, I personally would be thrilled by such a decision. I'm against having my power supplied through a data cable and data port. In theory it's safe, of course, but in practice people have fried equipment with bad cables. It's a hard standard to get right. It's as if we were all using Rust for systems programming up until 2016, when we all switched to C because it was "more powerful". In theory you can write safe C. In practice ... I also think display connections should have their own interface. It needlessly complicates the protocol when we already have perfectly good connectors for this, HDMI, micro-HDMI, Displayport... USB should be a dumb protocol with a passive cable. The only distinguishing feature between different USB C cables should be transfer speed, and different rates should be given a clearly labeled version number and distinguishing color, like USB 3.1, 3.2 etc. Of course no one's actually going to implement this, probably the companies involved profit off of incompatibilities. Whenever you have to buy a new cable or new device because it's not supported by the old standard, it's proof this approach is winning.

Ductapemaster 7y ago

Out of curiosity, what USB-C dock do you have? I am in the market for one.

manacit 7y ago
I (and a number of people I know) have a CalDigit TS3+ and it's worked extremely well for me: https://www.caldigit.com/ts3-plus https://www.caldigit.com/ts3-plus I can't speak to what else is on the market, but there's not more I'd want from this.
- Rebelgecko 7y ago
  Can second the recommendation. When I was looking, I think it was the only USB-C/TB3 dock that supported multiple 4k displays at 60hz (one via Displayport and one via a USB-C to Displayport adapter). Their website looked a bit fly-by-night, but I've been happy with the product. The only issue I've had is that my Macbook sometimes flips my two displays, but I believe that's an OS problem.
- beaugunderson 7y ago
  Damn, it looks perfect except that it can't do 4k @ 144hz (but to be fair I haven't found a hub that can, only one-off USB-C to DP connectors).
brandonmenc 7y ago
I have the OWC Thunderbolt 3 Dock and it also works perfectly. https://www.owcdigital.com/products/thunderbolt-3-dock-14-port https://www.owcdigital.com/products/thunderbolt-3-dock-14-po...

llampx 7y ago

Paying for extra stuff and more expensive cables, for what benefit again? I could throw out all my USB peripherals and buy new ones that use USB type C, but at the end what have I achieved aside from setting a few $100 bills on fire?

manacit 7y ago
For me, it's the difference between having to plug in at least 5 things when I set my laptop down at my desk (or use a very specific dock that only works with a single size and model of laptop) to just plugging USB C in and having my laptop charge and function with every device. This is worth the price of admission, though the decision was made for me by Apple. Beyond that, the additional wattage that USB C PD provides means that I can charge my iPhone and iPad significantly faster than even with Apple's "fast" 12W charger previously. This is really nice when I am traveling or just forgot to charge my iPhone. In addition, now that more devices are coming with USB C support, I can charge everything from my laptop to my Bose headphones with the same cable and charger, which would have not been possible before.

JohnFen 7y ago

> I have a dock at home that I can plug both my work and personal laptop in and have it work seamlessly with two 4k monitors, gigabit ethernet, mouse, keyboard, speakers, etc. Umm, so do I, but USB-C isn't involved.