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> And I don't think it's the media who has a leftward bias Leftward bias has been repeatedly demonstrated in the literature. Your belief that there is no medi

> And I don't think it's the media who has a leftward bias Leftward bias has been repeatedly demonstrated in the literature. Your belief that there is no media bias may in fact be evidence of your own biases. This too is supported in the literature. I.e., there is evidence that media which confirms our beliefs is viewed as higher quality than that which disconfirms.

orwin 7y ago
I think his point is that what's considered "leftward" in the US is actually not really leftward for the rest of the word, so for him, the "left bias" is actually a "normal bias".
- bin0 7y ago
  When you say the rest of the world, I assume you mean that Europe is much further left than America? If so, that has no bearing on how we judge American media. Other nations are farther left or right; we judge bias based on the political center of the respective nation. American media does not have a "normal" or "center" bias just because politics in your nation are farther left; American voters determine where the American center is (not those in europe).
  - moccachino 7y ago
    Sure, but the shift is also within the U.S. over time. To support a strong public education system and hold a sensible position on gun control used to be something Republicans did as far as I can tell. There has been a definite shift to the fringe. Both in the plutocratic direction, with the one-dollar-one-vote philosophy, and also in just a general nutcase direction (see the NRA).
    - bin0 7y ago
      That's not a fair assessment. Your opinion of a "sensible position" on "gun control" is almost certainly different from mine. I would take the perspective that people openly supporting socialism is a much further-leftward lurch than any thing on the right. [0] You also brand the NRA as "fringe" and as "general nutcases", which is again unfair. Your political opinion is not the single source of truth or the center of the political spectrum. Your implication here is that the right has become fringe, but the graph linked above shows otherwise. [0] https://qz.com/1580091/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-how-far-left-the-democrats-are-going/ https://qz.com/1580091/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-how-far-left...
      - moccachino 7y ago
        >That's not a fair assessment. Fair point. >Your opinion of a "sensible position" on "gun control" is almost certainly different from mine. A sensible position can be anywhere on a broad spectrum. It does not include arming teachers and does not include selling guns to diagnosed mentally unstable people. >I would take the perspective that people openly supporting socialism is a much further-leftward lurch than any thing on the right. [0] I would have to disagree. I think for-profit prisons, money-is-speech, on-your-own healthcare are three examples of extreme individualism and anti-social-ism that it seems the Republicans are proud of. >You also brand the NRA as "fringe" and as "general nutcases", which is again unfair. Your political opinion is not the single source of truth or the center of the political spectrum. The NRA is fringe, it has recently been shown how it has been hijacked over the course of a decade or more by the Russians to sow discord and destabilize your country. That's why I chose to use such inflammatory words. >Your implication here is that the right has become fringe, but the graph linked above shows otherwise. This may be true, I honestly did not have time to read the whole article. I don't disagree that the left has a bunch of issues and idiotic positions, hyper-sensitivity and a general vicious lack of tolerance for momentary lapses in judgement being the main ones in my opinion.
        bin0 7y ago
        > I would have to disagree. I think for-profit prisons, money-is-speech, on-your-own healthcare are three examples of extreme individualism and anti-social-ism that it seems the Republicans are proud of. I'm guessing your frame of reference is left-of-center; mine is somewhat right. There is no "one true anchor" for who is where, so the best thing I can think to do is use the general center of American politics when we discuss America. I'd take many positions you'd generally disagree with, but others would call them sensible. Other opinions of mine are not generally regarded as sensible by most, and that's fine too. > The NRA is fringe... it has been hijacked... by the Russians The NRA operates with the approval of many Americans. I wouldn't call it's positions fringe, though the organization certainly has its failings. At some point, the Russians supported the election of a president; it's hard to call a figure such as that fringe. I'm not sure an endorsement by the Russians should damn and organization or person; the same thing is now happening to Tulsi Gabbard (non-interventionist policy is amenable to the Russians). > This may be true, I honestly did not have time to read the whole article. I don't disagree that the left has a bunch of issues and idiotic positions, hyper-sensitivity and a general vicious lack of tolerance for momentary lapses in judgement being the main ones in my opinion. Fair enough. The important part is the box-plot graph mid-way through the article, which shows a huge leftward lurch in the past few years. I would have linked directly, but the page overlays text on an image so it can't be linked.
dragonwriter 7y ago
> Leftward bias has been repeatedly demonstrated in the literature. No, it hasn't, and if it had, the Right wouldn't keep spinning findings of a predominance of Democratic Party membership among media employees as if it were the same thing as a finding of leftward bias.
- xibalba 7y ago
  > No, it hasn't This was a 2 minute search of Google Scholar: ^1 "...the mainstream press in America operate within a narrow range of liberal beliefs... only a narrow band of liberal thought is supported by the press" ^2 "Our results show a strong liberal bias" [1] https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Jim_Kuypers/publication/318990476_Press_Bias_and_Politics_How_the_Media_Frame_Controversial_Issues/links/5a8e207faca272c56bc40dc2/Press-Bias-and-Politics-How-the-Media-Frame-Controversial-Issues.pdf https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Jim_Kuypers/publication... [2] https://academic.oup.com/qje/article-abstract/120/4/1191/1926642 https://academic.oup.com/qje/article-abstract/120/4/1191/192...
  - aNoob7000 7y ago
    The sad thing about left or right bias is that it is all the same thing. The left doesn't care about what the right says, and the right doesn't care about what the left says. Unfortunately, there is no more compromise in today's world. People just want to win because even giving up even a small amount of ground to an opponent is considered a complete failure.
    - bin0 7y ago
      I personally blame social media for a lot oft this. Mob mentality has been a problem since forever, but Twitter has created a nation-wide 24/7 mob which is angrier than ever and never disbands. I blame that for the elections of President Trump, Congresswoman Ocasio, and other such divisive figures. I also think it's responsible for the phenomenon of each "side" seeing the other as morally wrong, inuhame, and almost not people. It's been known for a while we're meaner on-line because we can't see any one on the other side; I think that's a significant part of the problem. This, of course, begs the question: how do you fix it? I don't know.

orwin 7y ago

I think his point is that what's considered "leftward" in the US is actually not really leftward for the rest of the word, so for him, the "left bias" is actually a "normal bias".

bin0 7y ago
When you say the rest of the world, I assume you mean that Europe is much further left than America? If so, that has no bearing on how we judge American media. Other nations are farther left or right; we judge bias based on the political center of the respective nation. American media does not have a "normal" or "center" bias just because politics in your nation are farther left; American voters determine where the American center is (not those in europe).
- moccachino 7y ago
  Sure, but the shift is also within the U.S. over time. To support a strong public education system and hold a sensible position on gun control used to be something Republicans did as far as I can tell. There has been a definite shift to the fringe. Both in the plutocratic direction, with the one-dollar-one-vote philosophy, and also in just a general nutcase direction (see the NRA).
  - bin0 7y ago
    That's not a fair assessment. Your opinion of a "sensible position" on "gun control" is almost certainly different from mine. I would take the perspective that people openly supporting socialism is a much further-leftward lurch than any thing on the right. [0] You also brand the NRA as "fringe" and as "general nutcases", which is again unfair. Your political opinion is not the single source of truth or the center of the political spectrum. Your implication here is that the right has become fringe, but the graph linked above shows otherwise. [0] https://qz.com/1580091/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-how-far-left-the-democrats-are-going/ https://qz.com/1580091/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-how-far-left...
    - moccachino 7y ago
      >That's not a fair assessment. Fair point. >Your opinion of a "sensible position" on "gun control" is almost certainly different from mine. A sensible position can be anywhere on a broad spectrum. It does not include arming teachers and does not include selling guns to diagnosed mentally unstable people. >I would take the perspective that people openly supporting socialism is a much further-leftward lurch than any thing on the right. [0] I would have to disagree. I think for-profit prisons, money-is-speech, on-your-own healthcare are three examples of extreme individualism and anti-social-ism that it seems the Republicans are proud of. >You also brand the NRA as "fringe" and as "general nutcases", which is again unfair. Your political opinion is not the single source of truth or the center of the political spectrum. The NRA is fringe, it has recently been shown how it has been hijacked over the course of a decade or more by the Russians to sow discord and destabilize your country. That's why I chose to use such inflammatory words. >Your implication here is that the right has become fringe, but the graph linked above shows otherwise. This may be true, I honestly did not have time to read the whole article. I don't disagree that the left has a bunch of issues and idiotic positions, hyper-sensitivity and a general vicious lack of tolerance for momentary lapses in judgement being the main ones in my opinion.
      - bin0 7y ago
        > I would have to disagree. I think for-profit prisons, money-is-speech, on-your-own healthcare are three examples of extreme individualism and anti-social-ism that it seems the Republicans are proud of. I'm guessing your frame of reference is left-of-center; mine is somewhat right. There is no "one true anchor" for who is where, so the best thing I can think to do is use the general center of American politics when we discuss America. I'd take many positions you'd generally disagree with, but others would call them sensible. Other opinions of mine are not generally regarded as sensible by most, and that's fine too. > The NRA is fringe... it has been hijacked... by the Russians The NRA operates with the approval of many Americans. I wouldn't call it's positions fringe, though the organization certainly has its failings. At some point, the Russians supported the election of a president; it's hard to call a figure such as that fringe. I'm not sure an endorsement by the Russians should damn and organization or person; the same thing is now happening to Tulsi Gabbard (non-interventionist policy is amenable to the Russians). > This may be true, I honestly did not have time to read the whole article. I don't disagree that the left has a bunch of issues and idiotic positions, hyper-sensitivity and a general vicious lack of tolerance for momentary lapses in judgement being the main ones in my opinion. Fair enough. The important part is the box-plot graph mid-way through the article, which shows a huge leftward lurch in the past few years. I would have linked directly, but the page overlays text on an image so it can't be linked.

dragonwriter 7y ago

> Leftward bias has been repeatedly demonstrated in the literature. No, it hasn't, and if it had, the Right wouldn't keep spinning findings of a predominance of Democratic Party membership among media employees as if it were the same thing as a finding of leftward bias.

xibalba 7y ago
> No, it hasn't This was a 2 minute search of Google Scholar: ^1 "...the mainstream press in America operate within a narrow range of liberal beliefs... only a narrow band of liberal thought is supported by the press" ^2 "Our results show a strong liberal bias" [1] https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Jim_Kuypers/publication/318990476_Press_Bias_and_Politics_How_the_Media_Frame_Controversial_Issues/links/5a8e207faca272c56bc40dc2/Press-Bias-and-Politics-How-the-Media-Frame-Controversial-Issues.pdf https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Jim_Kuypers/publication... [2] https://academic.oup.com/qje/article-abstract/120/4/1191/1926642 https://academic.oup.com/qje/article-abstract/120/4/1191/192...
- aNoob7000 7y ago
  The sad thing about left or right bias is that it is all the same thing. The left doesn't care about what the right says, and the right doesn't care about what the left says. Unfortunately, there is no more compromise in today's world. People just want to win because even giving up even a small amount of ground to an opponent is considered a complete failure.
  - bin0 7y ago
    I personally blame social media for a lot oft this. Mob mentality has been a problem since forever, but Twitter has created a nation-wide 24/7 mob which is angrier than ever and never disbands. I blame that for the elections of President Trump, Congresswoman Ocasio, and other such divisive figures. I also think it's responsible for the phenomenon of each "side" seeing the other as morally wrong, inuhame, and almost not people. It's been known for a while we're meaner on-line because we can't see any one on the other side; I think that's a significant part of the problem. This, of course, begs the question: how do you fix it? I don't know.