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Reducing is strategic. Reusing and recycling are tactical. If your strategy is in place, use all the tactics that contribute to it. But if you don't have your

by spodek 7y ago

Reducing is strategic. Reusing and recycling are tactical. If your strategy is in place, use all the tactics that contribute to it. But if you don't have your strategy in place, tactics can do nothing or even move you backward. Corporations like recycling because it promotes growth -- the opposite of reduction. We are stepping on the gas, thinking we're stepping on the brake. Covered in episode 183 of Leadership and the Environment: http://joshuaspodek.com/guests/rants-raves-monologues-volume-6 http://joshuaspodek.com/guests/rants-raves-monologues-volume...

shkkmo 7y ago
> Corporations like recycling because it promotes growth -- the opposite of reduction. I don't think this is strictly true. It certainly is not the explanation for why we have most of the recycling programs we do have. Overpaying for unnecessary recycling reduces growth. Economically efficient recycling increases it. Both corporations and environmentalists should support efficient recycling and oppose innefficient recycling. There may be some methods of recycling that are environmentally efficient but economically inefficient, but that would be due to externalities that need to be regulated anyway. The issue of expecting and engineering unending growth is an interesting topic but doesn't really have anything to do with this article.
- Thorrez 7y ago
  >Both corporations and environmentalists should support efficient recycling and oppose innefficient recycling. Are you saying that's what corporations should morally do, or that that's what they should logically do to increase profits? It could be that a corporation saying "buy our stuff then recycle it" causes more people to buy the stuff than saying "buy our stuff then throw it away". In that situation, a profit motivated corporation would promote recycling even if it hurts the environment.
  - shkkmo 7y ago
    I'm speaking of broad interest categories. Obviously aluminum mining companies aren't going be in favor of aluminum recycling, but in general, lower aluminum prices increase economic growth potential and should be supported by other companies in general purely out of self-interest.
- rtpg 7y ago
  > There may be some methods of recycling that are environmentally efficient but economically inefficient, but that would be due to externalities that need to be regulated anyway Are there many known examples of this? Kinda curious about what shape this problem takes in context
- btomtom5 7y ago
  If the alternative to recycling is reduction by creating products that last longer, then recycling would increase profits and growth.
viraptor 7y ago
> Corporations like recycling because it promotes growth -- the opposite of reduction. What do you mean by "promotes growth" here? You pay for your recycling just like your trash. Why would any company like it more than reducing overall waste?
- mc32 7y ago
  Not OP but if you look at packaging you can find examples where it’s in an industry’s interest to create disposable packaging over recycled packaging. Be it plastics, glass, aluminum, tin or cardboard. But also your “cell” batteries and clothing, etc.
- spodek 7y ago
  It promotes their growth -- say packaged good companies like Coca-Cola, Trader Joe's, or Starbucks. Clothing companies like H&M and Zara. Most unnecessary material stuff. A statistic from The Story of Stuff https://storyofstuff.org/movies/story-of-stuff https://storyofstuff.org/movies/story-of-stuff comes to mind that something like 99% of things Americans buy end up in landfills within one year. Manufacturers slap the word "recyclable" on those products to get people to buy more of them, hence growth.
  - viraptor 7y ago
    You're right! I was thinking only of corps not producing physical products, but that's only one part of the world.
  - pauljurczak 7y ago
    Slapping "recyclable" on the product also reduces guilt in buyers with some conscience, therefore it is a winning marketing strategy.
  - smsm42 7y ago
    > 99% of things Americans buy end up in landfills within one year. What "things" means here? A car is a "thing" and a toothpick is a "thing". I can use the car for 10 years and I use several toothpicks per day. So on average, I throw nearly everything very quickly, but the picture seems to be misleading if we remember we're comparing toothpicks to cars...
bobwaycott 7y ago
> Corporations like recycling because it promotes growth -- the opposite of reduction. Put a bit more directly, corporations like recycling because it shifts the burdens of waste onto consumers and society at large, while allowing them to continue pursuing growth and privately concentrating profits.

by spodek 7y ago

shkkmo 7y ago

> Corporations like recycling because it promotes growth -- the opposite of reduction. I don't think this is strictly true. It certainly is not the explanation for why we have most of the recycling programs we do have. Overpaying for unnecessary recycling reduces growth. Economically efficient recycling increases it. Both corporations and environmentalists should support efficient recycling and oppose innefficient recycling. There may be some methods of recycling that are environmentally efficient but economically inefficient, but that would be due to externalities that need to be regulated anyway. The issue of expecting and engineering unending growth is an interesting topic but doesn't really have anything to do with this article.

Thorrez 7y ago
>Both corporations and environmentalists should support efficient recycling and oppose innefficient recycling. Are you saying that's what corporations should morally do, or that that's what they should logically do to increase profits? It could be that a corporation saying "buy our stuff then recycle it" causes more people to buy the stuff than saying "buy our stuff then throw it away". In that situation, a profit motivated corporation would promote recycling even if it hurts the environment.
- shkkmo 7y ago
  I'm speaking of broad interest categories. Obviously aluminum mining companies aren't going be in favor of aluminum recycling, but in general, lower aluminum prices increase economic growth potential and should be supported by other companies in general purely out of self-interest.
rtpg 7y ago
> There may be some methods of recycling that are environmentally efficient but economically inefficient, but that would be due to externalities that need to be regulated anyway Are there many known examples of this? Kinda curious about what shape this problem takes in context
btomtom5 7y ago
If the alternative to recycling is reduction by creating products that last longer, then recycling would increase profits and growth.

viraptor 7y ago

> Corporations like recycling because it promotes growth -- the opposite of reduction. What do you mean by "promotes growth" here? You pay for your recycling just like your trash. Why would any company like it more than reducing overall waste?

mc32 7y ago
Not OP but if you look at packaging you can find examples where it’s in an industry’s interest to create disposable packaging over recycled packaging. Be it plastics, glass, aluminum, tin or cardboard. But also your “cell” batteries and clothing, etc.
spodek 7y ago
It promotes their growth -- say packaged good companies like Coca-Cola, Trader Joe's, or Starbucks. Clothing companies like H&M and Zara. Most unnecessary material stuff. A statistic from The Story of Stuff https://storyofstuff.org/movies/story-of-stuff https://storyofstuff.org/movies/story-of-stuff comes to mind that something like 99% of things Americans buy end up in landfills within one year. Manufacturers slap the word "recyclable" on those products to get people to buy more of them, hence growth.
- viraptor 7y ago
  You're right! I was thinking only of corps not producing physical products, but that's only one part of the world.
- pauljurczak 7y ago
  Slapping "recyclable" on the product also reduces guilt in buyers with some conscience, therefore it is a winning marketing strategy.
- smsm42 7y ago
  > 99% of things Americans buy end up in landfills within one year. What "things" means here? A car is a "thing" and a toothpick is a "thing". I can use the car for 10 years and I use several toothpicks per day. So on average, I throw nearly everything very quickly, but the picture seems to be misleading if we remember we're comparing toothpicks to cars...

bobwaycott 7y ago

> Corporations like recycling because it promotes growth -- the opposite of reduction. Put a bit more directly, corporations like recycling because it shifts the burdens of waste onto consumers and society at large, while allowing them to continue pursuing growth and privately concentrating profits.