4 ms·

>If the system is working properly, you should mostly be able to accumulate wealth only if you provide value to everyone else This is somewhat devil's advocate

>If the system is working properly, you should mostly be able to accumulate wealth only if you provide value to everyone else This is somewhat devil's advocate-ey, but what's to stop someone living off social benefits and accruing EVE online wealth? (Low ohysical standard of living/prestige, high virtual prestige) Modern MMO's aren't good enough to replace the real world- yet. When they are, some subset of the population will pop on their VR machines, plug in the feeding tubes, and that's it. Unless you want to get rid of social benefits/make social benefits actually dependent on trying to get a job, you can't really stop people doing this.

llama052 7y ago
I played Eve for awhile and was in one of the bigger alliances, and knew people who did just that. It seemed to give them purpose and I really can't blame them. However I'm unsure if living off of social benefits was a product of the game itself or some other factors that are 'legitimate'.
- pbhjpbhj 7y ago
  > seemed to give them purpose // And that seems good, but it's actually a problem. One finds purpose in the in-game reality which gives one motivation to withdraw -- the game gives the feeling of progress and success, the feeling that's supposed to help us motivate ourselves to survive and contribute to our tribe. But the success is really just changing numbers in a database. I say this as someone who games most days.
  - galaxyLogic 7y ago
    Exactly. I think this boils down to the problem that games do not create actual value or if they do it is zero-sum, away from somebody else. If what we do in the game could somehow benefit people who are outside the game THAT would mean it provides "real" value. If the value it provides is only entertainment for other players then I would say it only provides VIRTUAL value :-)
PeterStuer 7y ago
Even the virtually richest mmo players would be hardup making minimum wage in developed economy terms.
- galaxyLogic 7y ago
  Right I think that is the core of the problem. The skills you acquire in the game do not transfer to valuable skills in the real economy. Well, maybe Flight-Simulator. That is a "good" game.
seventhtiger 7y ago
But MMOs aren't mainstream any more. It's been a decade since multiplayer match-based games took over. That future might have seemed possible in the mid-2000s with WoW taking over people's lives. Today there's really no trend to suggest full time living in a virtual existence. We're already there part time through social media, but it seems like that's about as far as it goes. I think it's a massive economic barrier. How much does it cost to have an online experience of socialization or eating with equivalent quality to an offline one? People still take vacations, pack up their bags, and fly on planes to meet others and eat food. When will a virtual meeting and a virtual burger every be as good and cheaper?
- distances 7y ago
  > When will a virtual meeting and a virtual burger every be as good and cheaper? The same goes for museums that were an early use case of possible applications for virtual reality. In practice very few people are interested in virtual reproductions of even the greatest treasures of mankind that draw millions of people yearly to see them in real life.
  - seventhtiger 7y ago
    I think it's the flying cars of our generation. Even when we achieve the tech the biggest question will be "why would we use that?" A nice bit of futurism but nothing more.
    - galaxyLogic 7y ago
      I'm not so sure about that. A big problem currently is people commuting to and from work causing traffic congestion time lost in traffic jams and traffic accidents. A true virtual office might be the solution to traffic jams.
- kensai 7y ago
  Naval Action, the EVE of the Age of Sail is actually relatively new and having a small but dedicated community. We will see more in the future. There are many potential eras/scenarios.
pi-rat 7y ago
I played Eve many years ago, was in one of the hardcore mercenary guilds/corporations. At one point a really good player was going to quit the game. He wasn’t able to pay his real life bills, planned to get a second job just to survive and keep a roof over his head. Turned out that another member (director) was loaded in real life, and he really didn’t want the other guy to quit, he had him send all his real life bills and paid them for him. If you think about it, he really paid him a real life salary to have him work in a virtual world. And who doesn’t want to work as a pirate space mercenary for a living? :p
- macando 7y ago
  > he had him send all his real life bills and paid them for him This is awesome and horrible at the same time.
  - valzam 7y ago
    How is it different than paying for any kind of entertainment? (Except maybe the dependency on a single person).
    - macando 7y ago
      Maybe it had been a wake up call for that guy to turn his life around and somebody just paid his way back into the game. Or maybe his life was independently miserable and the game was the only positive thing. Who knows.
      - galaxyLogic 7y ago
        Yes seems like the guy realized he had an addiction problem, addicted to the game. Like if he was dependent on drugs and realized he needed to quit. Then by chance one of the people he was taking drugs with was a millionaire who thought the guy was a fun person to take drugs with and started financing his habit. At the same time the rich guy bought some loyalty and gratitude which might be good for him later in the game. What happened? Is the rich guy still paying the bills of this poor chap?

llama052 7y ago

I played Eve for awhile and was in one of the bigger alliances, and knew people who did just that. It seemed to give them purpose and I really can't blame them. However I'm unsure if living off of social benefits was a product of the game itself or some other factors that are 'legitimate'.

pbhjpbhj 7y ago
> seemed to give them purpose // And that seems good, but it's actually a problem. One finds purpose in the in-game reality which gives one motivation to withdraw -- the game gives the feeling of progress and success, the feeling that's supposed to help us motivate ourselves to survive and contribute to our tribe. But the success is really just changing numbers in a database. I say this as someone who games most days.
- galaxyLogic 7y ago
  Exactly. I think this boils down to the problem that games do not create actual value or if they do it is zero-sum, away from somebody else. If what we do in the game could somehow benefit people who are outside the game THAT would mean it provides "real" value. If the value it provides is only entertainment for other players then I would say it only provides VIRTUAL value :-)

PeterStuer 7y ago

Even the virtually richest mmo players would be hardup making minimum wage in developed economy terms.

galaxyLogic 7y ago
Right I think that is the core of the problem. The skills you acquire in the game do not transfer to valuable skills in the real economy. Well, maybe Flight-Simulator. That is a "good" game.

seventhtiger 7y ago

But MMOs aren't mainstream any more. It's been a decade since multiplayer match-based games took over. That future might have seemed possible in the mid-2000s with WoW taking over people's lives. Today there's really no trend to suggest full time living in a virtual existence. We're already there part time through social media, but it seems like that's about as far as it goes. I think it's a massive economic barrier. How much does it cost to have an online experience of socialization or eating with equivalent quality to an offline one? People still take vacations, pack up their bags, and fly on planes to meet others and eat food. When will a virtual meeting and a virtual burger every be as good and cheaper?

distances 7y ago
> When will a virtual meeting and a virtual burger every be as good and cheaper? The same goes for museums that were an early use case of possible applications for virtual reality. In practice very few people are interested in virtual reproductions of even the greatest treasures of mankind that draw millions of people yearly to see them in real life.
- seventhtiger 7y ago
  I think it's the flying cars of our generation. Even when we achieve the tech the biggest question will be "why would we use that?" A nice bit of futurism but nothing more.
  - galaxyLogic 7y ago
    I'm not so sure about that. A big problem currently is people commuting to and from work causing traffic congestion time lost in traffic jams and traffic accidents. A true virtual office might be the solution to traffic jams.
kensai 7y ago
Naval Action, the EVE of the Age of Sail is actually relatively new and having a small but dedicated community. We will see more in the future. There are many potential eras/scenarios.

pi-rat 7y ago

I played Eve many years ago, was in one of the hardcore mercenary guilds/corporations. At one point a really good player was going to quit the game. He wasn’t able to pay his real life bills, planned to get a second job just to survive and keep a roof over his head. Turned out that another member (director) was loaded in real life, and he really didn’t want the other guy to quit, he had him send all his real life bills and paid them for him. If you think about it, he really paid him a real life salary to have him work in a virtual world. And who doesn’t want to work as a pirate space mercenary for a living? :p

macando 7y ago
> he had him send all his real life bills and paid them for him This is awesome and horrible at the same time.
- valzam 7y ago
  How is it different than paying for any kind of entertainment? (Except maybe the dependency on a single person).
  - macando 7y ago
    Maybe it had been a wake up call for that guy to turn his life around and somebody just paid his way back into the game. Or maybe his life was independently miserable and the game was the only positive thing. Who knows.
    - galaxyLogic 7y ago
      Yes seems like the guy realized he had an addiction problem, addicted to the game. Like if he was dependent on drugs and realized he needed to quit. Then by chance one of the people he was taking drugs with was a millionaire who thought the guy was a fun person to take drugs with and started financing his habit. At the same time the rich guy bought some loyalty and gratitude which might be good for him later in the game. What happened? Is the rich guy still paying the bills of this poor chap?