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I quit EVE after it became "legal" to buy subscription passes and sell them for in-game currency. That's significant because it lets you put a dollar amount on

I quit EVE after it became "legal" to buy subscription passes and sell them for in-game currency. That's significant because it lets you put a dollar amount on everything you do. It destroys the fun of non-PVP activities when what you're doing changes from "just three more hours of mission running slash mining and I can replace my battleship" to "I'm working for $1.78 an hour." At that point you realize you may as well just buy back your losses every time you get blown up. >I’m a fan of no local in null, especially if they add observatories/sensor networks structures Of course he is. The Mittani is completely dedicated to large-scale PVP. Replacing Local with sensor structures is fantastic for alliances who can put a structure or an alt account sentry on every gate in their territory. Never mind how heavily it favors large established organizations and punishes smaller newer corporations.

y4mi 7y ago
> I quit EVE after it became "legal" to buy subscription passes and sell them for in-game currency. I was a very active world of Warcraft player up until wrath of the lich King. At the time I was leveling my alts blacksmithing by traveling around the world and mining minerals just to increase some arbitrary numbers on my skills and professions panel. Then I thought to myself: I keep hearing about people using bots for that: let's try this! So I set it up... After it ran for a few hours I came back with a full inventory of minerals and for the first time in my life realized what I've been doing for the last years... Exactly nothing. I deleted the game a few weeks later, couldn't find the energy in myself to keep raiding. I sometimes get back to it for a month or three. But it just cannot keep me interested any longer. I think there are a lot of reasons to actually lose the touch with MMO games and suddenly you realized that the time spent isn't actually achieving anything... For you, it might've been the game time tokens, but I'm sure you would've realized it in some other way if they didn't do that. I actually think that these tokens help players that just want to play a little without wasting their entire lives away quite a bit. For example the last time I played world of Warcraft I did some mythic+ runs... I just bought a token and could buy all the required consumables for the whole three month I played. I wouldn't have had the patience to get these the normal way and as such would never have been able to experienced any higher dungeons.
- chii 7y ago
  > suddenly you realized that the time spent isn't actually achieving anything then you've missed the whole point of an MMO game - you're meant to make meaningful human connections, and find online friends who may even outlast the game. EVE is one of those games that almost require such friend-making for it to be fun (playing PvE in EVE is boring, unlike WOW).
  - wincy 7y ago
    I was in a top wow guild. Paid to move my character to a new server, even. Was in a number 1 guild, I remember getting thousands of messages when we got a server first. It was insane. It felt so amazing though in that moment. I imagine I’d feel the same if I’d won the Olympics as silly as that sounds. Ultimately it was a hollow victory. The hundreds of hours, the 185 days of real 24 hour days I put into that single character, I can never get back. Those people were had a thin facade of friendship, but I don’t talk to them anymore. We were never really friends. We were just addicts engaging in the same quest for ever larger dopamine hits. I remember kicking out people from our guild because they “underperformed”, even if they were good guys and we liked hanging out with them. All that mattered was the raid. All that mattered was winning. It’s weird too because I think back and at a deep level our server first was the most intense positive emotional experience of my life. Not my kid being born, not getting married. My mind was convinced we were in a war against an insurmountable foe and we won. It makes me sad, like my level of what’s exciting is permanently messed up and skewed from what reality can offer. I’ve heard similar stories about meth and other drugs, that colors don’t seem as bright after you stop. I really wish I’d never played WoW, or EVE. It was escapism for some really terrible times in my life and rather than help it just retarded the healing and mental recuperation I needed for many years. It definitely wasn’t about friendship, though.
    - Ntrails 7y ago
      Never got server firsts, but wasn't far behind. Certainly I remember grinding mats and gold for raids. However. To suggest that a bot renders gameplay meaningless doesn't make any sense. Is it meaningless to tend a garden because there are gardeners? I could pay someone to cook my food, does that make cooking pointless? You traded your time for experiences and afterwards decided you made a bad decision. That is your right - but I don't regret the entertainment that Eve or Wow have given me. You created a weird equivalence which I don't think holds.

y4mi 7y ago

> I quit EVE after it became "legal" to buy subscription passes and sell them for in-game currency. I was a very active world of Warcraft player up until wrath of the lich King. At the time I was leveling my alts blacksmithing by traveling around the world and mining minerals just to increase some arbitrary numbers on my skills and professions panel. Then I thought to myself: I keep hearing about people using bots for that: let's try this! So I set it up... After it ran for a few hours I came back with a full inventory of minerals and for the first time in my life realized what I've been doing for the last years... Exactly nothing. I deleted the game a few weeks later, couldn't find the energy in myself to keep raiding. I sometimes get back to it for a month or three. But it just cannot keep me interested any longer. I think there are a lot of reasons to actually lose the touch with MMO games and suddenly you realized that the time spent isn't actually achieving anything... For you, it might've been the game time tokens, but I'm sure you would've realized it in some other way if they didn't do that. I actually think that these tokens help players that just want to play a little without wasting their entire lives away quite a bit. For example the last time I played world of Warcraft I did some mythic+ runs... I just bought a token and could buy all the required consumables for the whole three month I played. I wouldn't have had the patience to get these the normal way and as such would never have been able to experienced any higher dungeons.

chii 7y ago
> suddenly you realized that the time spent isn't actually achieving anything then you've missed the whole point of an MMO game - you're meant to make meaningful human connections, and find online friends who may even outlast the game. EVE is one of those games that almost require such friend-making for it to be fun (playing PvE in EVE is boring, unlike WOW).
- wincy 7y ago
  I was in a top wow guild. Paid to move my character to a new server, even. Was in a number 1 guild, I remember getting thousands of messages when we got a server first. It was insane. It felt so amazing though in that moment. I imagine I’d feel the same if I’d won the Olympics as silly as that sounds. Ultimately it was a hollow victory. The hundreds of hours, the 185 days of real 24 hour days I put into that single character, I can never get back. Those people were had a thin facade of friendship, but I don’t talk to them anymore. We were never really friends. We were just addicts engaging in the same quest for ever larger dopamine hits. I remember kicking out people from our guild because they “underperformed”, even if they were good guys and we liked hanging out with them. All that mattered was the raid. All that mattered was winning. It’s weird too because I think back and at a deep level our server first was the most intense positive emotional experience of my life. Not my kid being born, not getting married. My mind was convinced we were in a war against an insurmountable foe and we won. It makes me sad, like my level of what’s exciting is permanently messed up and skewed from what reality can offer. I’ve heard similar stories about meth and other drugs, that colors don’t seem as bright after you stop. I really wish I’d never played WoW, or EVE. It was escapism for some really terrible times in my life and rather than help it just retarded the healing and mental recuperation I needed for many years. It definitely wasn’t about friendship, though.
  - Ntrails 7y ago
    Never got server firsts, but wasn't far behind. Certainly I remember grinding mats and gold for raids. However. To suggest that a bot renders gameplay meaningless doesn't make any sense. Is it meaningless to tend a garden because there are gardeners? I could pay someone to cook my food, does that make cooking pointless? You traded your time for experiences and afterwards decided you made a bad decision. That is your right - but I don't regret the entertainment that Eve or Wow have given me. You created a weird equivalence which I don't think holds.