6 ms·

> For example, in Swedish, the word for future is framtid which literally means “front time”. It's the same in Danish, but if you have a meeting at 1pm and you

> For example, in Swedish, the word for future is framtid which literally means “front time”. It's the same in Danish, but if you have a meeting at 1pm and you want to change it to 2pm (moving it further in to the future, or further "front time", forward in time) you are moving the meeting back. Introductions to linguistics are littered with poorly translated examples and misunderstood grammar points from languages that aren't even particularly exotic (like Japanese and Chinese). So maybe Aymara, just like Danish, have some back-looking phrases that refers to the future, but I am not convinced that people who speak Aymara, would put the Delorean in reverse, when aiming for the future. > But Spanish and Greek speakers see it as quantity, as volume taking up space. Author doesn't even try to explain which linguistic property causes this.

alkonaut 7y ago
> if you have a meeting at 1pm and you want to change it to 2pm (moving it further in to the future, or further "front time", forward in time) you are moving the meeting back. In Sweden that is most certainly to move the meeting forward (literally): “flytta fram mötet”. Moving it ”back” to the future makes no sense...
- jddj 7y ago
  It could, these terms usually depend on subtle imagined points of reference. If time is a horizontal line, and you are at 'now' and the meeting is at '1pm', if you imagine the meeting as something which is facing you, then moving it back would push it further into the future and forward would bring it closer to the present. We also usually change the verb to make the metaphor clearer, the meeting was brought forward or pushed back. Unrelated to time, another subtle difference which I think depends on how we imagine things spatially in different languages is 'coming' Vs 'going'. In English if you're at the park and I'm leaving my home to meet you the natural phrasing is to say that I'm "coming" (with the point of reference being you/the park), but in Spanish I'm "going", with the point of reference being me/my home.
- nemetroid 7y ago
  "Flytta fram" is actually used in both senses in Swedish, see references to Språklådan and Språket i P1 below. Both sources suggest avoiding the construct altogether, and use the more literal "tidigarelägga" and "senarelägga" instead (i.e. "place earlier" and "place later"). http://www3.sprakochfolkminnen.se/sprakladan/ShowSearch.aspx?id=id=44745;objekttyp=lan http://www3.sprakochfolkminnen.se/sprakladan/ShowSearch.aspx... https://www.facebook.com/Spraketip1/posts/10158189290675512/ https://www.facebook.com/Spraketip1/posts/10158189290675512/
southerndrift 7y ago
Could it be the other way round and back-looking doesn't really mean 'looking behind you'? Could 'back' just mean 'further away'? If you move a box further down a storage room, you also move it 'further back', don't you? If you bring something back, you move it from where you are to where it belongs. "Back up!" means "move away!". Your back is not just behind you but further away from your front.
whatshisface 7y ago
I have heard that in far-off America where they speak a language called English, time is seen not as a straight line but as a round circle, because of phrases like "I've got your six" which refer to a circular clock. Truly, the words used in random phrases are the clearest window into the alien mind.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- nsomaru 7y ago
  I thought this was a way of indicating direction when you know the orientation of the person you are talking to? Not sure if it has much to do with time per se.
  - mrob 7y ago
    I believe whatshisface sarcastically gave an absurd example to criticize the article.
- ummm32 7y ago
  I can confirm that from point of a spanish spoken viewer here in LATAM. We have had our share of time - decades - of a military fully controlled society, so now living in democracy many expressions or even words/verbs had subtlety changed their usual mean (as it appear in the dictionary), to something else. I.E. the verb "to order", in spanish it is used more frequently to express the action to put things in their intended configuration ("to order the kitchen"). But in our formerly military controlled LATAM societies there's an extra meaning: "to establish and enforce/assert a NEW set of rules" So we use "to order" as a non-official synonym of those verbs (enforce/assert) plus the notion of NEW rules: "Something different that what we were doing till now it is going to be implemented somehow".
  - kgwgk 7y ago
    Ordino already had both meanings (arrange and command) in latin and I think it remains true in romance and germanic languages alike. I'm not sure that's really "an extra meaning" in Latin America.
goto11 7y ago
In English the term "before" literally means "in front of". So if you say "the time before today" you are (according to the same logic) actually referring to the past being in front of the present. I'm also a bit skeptical of the conclusions drawn from these turns of phases. It seems a single language can have multiple inconsistent spatial metaphors in play at the same time. So I think it is a bit overblown to say a language "wires the brain" to think of time in a particular way.
- pbhjpbhj 7y ago
  Yes, "the time before you" in en-gb is slightly poetic but could mean either the time in history up to the point where you existed, or it could be the time in the future that is yet to come.
- hrktb 7y ago
  Conclusions are overblown(I guess it wouldn’t get wide appeal otherwise ?), but there is a kernel of truth in that the language at least introduces you to some visions of time you might not have. From there, not every speaker uses every aspect of any language, people pick and choose the metaphors that makes sense for them, or create and share new ones wholepiece. It reminds me of how tv broadcast handles late night time, and exposed me as a kid to lenient dates. It actualy had a long lasting impact I think.
  - goto11 7y ago
    Oh I absolutely agree that words and metaphors can shape the way we think about things. I'm just skeptical towards theories that couple this to languages as a whole.

alkonaut 7y ago

> if you have a meeting at 1pm and you want to change it to 2pm (moving it further in to the future, or further "front time", forward in time) you are moving the meeting back. In Sweden that is most certainly to move the meeting forward (literally): “flytta fram mötet”. Moving it ”back” to the future makes no sense...

jddj 7y ago
It could, these terms usually depend on subtle imagined points of reference. If time is a horizontal line, and you are at 'now' and the meeting is at '1pm', if you imagine the meeting as something which is facing you, then moving it back would push it further into the future and forward would bring it closer to the present. We also usually change the verb to make the metaphor clearer, the meeting was brought forward or pushed back. Unrelated to time, another subtle difference which I think depends on how we imagine things spatially in different languages is 'coming' Vs 'going'. In English if you're at the park and I'm leaving my home to meet you the natural phrasing is to say that I'm "coming" (with the point of reference being you/the park), but in Spanish I'm "going", with the point of reference being me/my home.
nemetroid 7y ago
"Flytta fram" is actually used in both senses in Swedish, see references to Språklådan and Språket i P1 below. Both sources suggest avoiding the construct altogether, and use the more literal "tidigarelägga" and "senarelägga" instead (i.e. "place earlier" and "place later"). http://www3.sprakochfolkminnen.se/sprakladan/ShowSearch.aspx?id=id=44745;objekttyp=lan http://www3.sprakochfolkminnen.se/sprakladan/ShowSearch.aspx... https://www.facebook.com/Spraketip1/posts/10158189290675512/ https://www.facebook.com/Spraketip1/posts/10158189290675512/

southerndrift 7y ago

Could it be the other way round and back-looking doesn't really mean 'looking behind you'? Could 'back' just mean 'further away'? If you move a box further down a storage room, you also move it 'further back', don't you? If you bring something back, you move it from where you are to where it belongs. "Back up!" means "move away!". Your back is not just behind you but further away from your front.

whatshisface 7y ago

I have heard that in far-off America where they speak a language called English, time is seen not as a straight line but as a round circle, because of phrases like "I've got your six" which refer to a circular clock. Truly, the words used in random phrases are the clearest window into the alien mind.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
nsomaru 7y ago
I thought this was a way of indicating direction when you know the orientation of the person you are talking to? Not sure if it has much to do with time per se.
- mrob 7y ago
  I believe whatshisface sarcastically gave an absurd example to criticize the article.
ummm32 7y ago
I can confirm that from point of a spanish spoken viewer here in LATAM. We have had our share of time - decades - of a military fully controlled society, so now living in democracy many expressions or even words/verbs had subtlety changed their usual mean (as it appear in the dictionary), to something else. I.E. the verb "to order", in spanish it is used more frequently to express the action to put things in their intended configuration ("to order the kitchen"). But in our formerly military controlled LATAM societies there's an extra meaning: "to establish and enforce/assert a NEW set of rules" So we use "to order" as a non-official synonym of those verbs (enforce/assert) plus the notion of NEW rules: "Something different that what we were doing till now it is going to be implemented somehow".
- kgwgk 7y ago
  Ordino already had both meanings (arrange and command) in latin and I think it remains true in romance and germanic languages alike. I'm not sure that's really "an extra meaning" in Latin America.

goto11 7y ago

In English the term "before" literally means "in front of". So if you say "the time before today" you are (according to the same logic) actually referring to the past being in front of the present. I'm also a bit skeptical of the conclusions drawn from these turns of phases. It seems a single language can have multiple inconsistent spatial metaphors in play at the same time. So I think it is a bit overblown to say a language "wires the brain" to think of time in a particular way.

pbhjpbhj 7y ago
Yes, "the time before you" in en-gb is slightly poetic but could mean either the time in history up to the point where you existed, or it could be the time in the future that is yet to come.
hrktb 7y ago
Conclusions are overblown(I guess it wouldn’t get wide appeal otherwise ?), but there is a kernel of truth in that the language at least introduces you to some visions of time you might not have. From there, not every speaker uses every aspect of any language, people pick and choose the metaphors that makes sense for them, or create and share new ones wholepiece. It reminds me of how tv broadcast handles late night time, and exposed me as a kid to lenient dates. It actualy had a long lasting impact I think.
- goto11 7y ago
  Oh I absolutely agree that words and metaphors can shape the way we think about things. I'm just skeptical towards theories that couple this to languages as a whole.