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"Argo AI’s focus remains on delivering a SAE Level 4-capable SDS to be applied for ridesharing and goods delivery services in dense urban areas." Perhaps naive

"Argo AI’s focus remains on delivering a SAE Level 4-capable SDS to be applied for ridesharing and goods delivery services in dense urban areas." Perhaps naive question from an outsider to the AV world: what does "SAE Level 4-capable SDS" mean?

Judgmentality 7y ago
Geo-fenced with some limitations (ie unable to drive in severe weather). So it'll only work in some areas, and will likely have further limitations like avoiding alleys, roundabouts, and whatever else it finds difficult but it not necessary to navigate from point A to point B. All of this is fully driverless and you can sleep in the back of the car. SDS stands for Self-Driving Service. SAE stands for Society of Automotive Engineers. https://www.sae.org/news/press-room/2018/12/sae-international-releases-updated-visual-chart-for-its-%E2%80%9Clevels-of-driving-automation%E2%80%9D-standard-for-self-driving-vehicles https://www.sae.org/news/press-room/2018/12/sae-internationa...
- simfoo 7y ago
  SDS usually stands for self-driving system. Argo provides only the sensors+compute HW+software that can be integrated into different cars from different manufacturers
da_chicken 7y ago
http://cyberlaw.stanford.edu/blog/2013/12/sae-levels-driving-automation http://cyberlaw.stanford.edu/blog/2013/12/sae-levels-driving... It's a fairly high level of automation. One step below total automation. That is, the system controls all aspects of driving, but there are still situations where it will ask the human driver to take over. However, even if the human doesn't actually take over, the system can still handle it. It's basically capable of dealing with an odd situation, but it's not confident about it.
- mac01021 7y ago
  These definitions are rather vague. If the car is able to function even when noone responds to the request for intervention, how is that different from level five? Does it mean that it safely pulls over, where level 3 would just drop control of the vehicle in a dangerous scenario? Also, does level 5 entail general intelligence, in order to do things like follow the instructions of a traffic cop or parking attendant?
  - solarkraft 7y ago
    > Does it mean that it safely pulls over Yes (or just stop - the idea is that it will not crash). > general intelligence Your examples would most likely be situations that would be trained for. I doubt that any system in the next few (5-50) years will be able to adopt to a completely new situation as well as a human.
    - ghaff 7y ago
      Yes, but there is still vagueness. Depending upon where you are and the circumstances, there may be no "safely pull over." I've certainly gotten into very low visibility situations on highways (snow squall, very heavy rain) where put on hazards and crawl along as best you can and pull over to the side of the road are pretty much equally bad alternatives.
      - MegaButts 7y ago
        I don't think this is a problem with the classification, I think this is a problem with how hard it is to build a self-driving car even if you give it these limitations. You're just making a point for how hard a Level 4 system is to build, not how hard it is to define.
sschueller 7y ago
According to Elon [1] Tesla will have this by the end of 2020. At some point reality has to kick in or not? [1] https://www.wired.com/story/elon-musk-tesla-full-self-driving-2019-2020-promise/ https://www.wired.com/story/elon-musk-tesla-full-self-drivin...
- threeseed 7y ago
  Of course. Which is why many of the key members of the Autopilot team have recently left. https://bgr.com/2019/07/09/tesla-autopilot-team-elon-musk-shakes-up/ https://bgr.com/2019/07/09/tesla-autopilot-team-elon-musk-sh...
  - Hydraulix989 7y ago
    How can you be so sure?
    - HeadsUpHigh 7y ago
      Just another Tesla short
  - saalweachter 7y ago
    Maybe they finished their work, solved all of the problems including the ones for extra credit on the back of the last page, and went home early?
- tim333 7y ago
  That article misrepresents what Musk actually said. The actual conversation was more like: Q) When will you be able to fall asleep and let the car drive? A) Uh dunno maybe late 2020. Even if you believe in Musk, he tends to run late so late 2020 seems optimistic. Assuming you are being safety conscious - some idiot will probably do it anyway and post to youtube. It seems to me that self driving systems could do with an algorithmic breakthrough or two before they work satisfactorily. If you look at the Autonomy event video https://youtu.be/Ucp0TTmvqOE?t=6973 https://youtu.be/Ucp0TTmvqOE?t=6973 where Karpathy explains how the systems work, the Japanese Spaniel problem a couple of minutes in to that is the kind of thing that needs fixing.

Judgmentality 7y ago

Geo-fenced with some limitations (ie unable to drive in severe weather). So it'll only work in some areas, and will likely have further limitations like avoiding alleys, roundabouts, and whatever else it finds difficult but it not necessary to navigate from point A to point B. All of this is fully driverless and you can sleep in the back of the car. SDS stands for Self-Driving Service. SAE stands for Society of Automotive Engineers. https://www.sae.org/news/press-room/2018/12/sae-international-releases-updated-visual-chart-for-its-%E2%80%9Clevels-of-driving-automation%E2%80%9D-standard-for-self-driving-vehicles https://www.sae.org/news/press-room/2018/12/sae-internationa...

simfoo 7y ago
SDS usually stands for self-driving system. Argo provides only the sensors+compute HW+software that can be integrated into different cars from different manufacturers

da_chicken 7y ago

http://cyberlaw.stanford.edu/blog/2013/12/sae-levels-driving-automation http://cyberlaw.stanford.edu/blog/2013/12/sae-levels-driving... It's a fairly high level of automation. One step below total automation. That is, the system controls all aspects of driving, but there are still situations where it will ask the human driver to take over. However, even if the human doesn't actually take over, the system can still handle it. It's basically capable of dealing with an odd situation, but it's not confident about it.

mac01021 7y ago
These definitions are rather vague. If the car is able to function even when noone responds to the request for intervention, how is that different from level five? Does it mean that it safely pulls over, where level 3 would just drop control of the vehicle in a dangerous scenario? Also, does level 5 entail general intelligence, in order to do things like follow the instructions of a traffic cop or parking attendant?
- solarkraft 7y ago
  > Does it mean that it safely pulls over Yes (or just stop - the idea is that it will not crash). > general intelligence Your examples would most likely be situations that would be trained for. I doubt that any system in the next few (5-50) years will be able to adopt to a completely new situation as well as a human.
  - ghaff 7y ago
    Yes, but there is still vagueness. Depending upon where you are and the circumstances, there may be no "safely pull over." I've certainly gotten into very low visibility situations on highways (snow squall, very heavy rain) where put on hazards and crawl along as best you can and pull over to the side of the road are pretty much equally bad alternatives.
    - MegaButts 7y ago
      I don't think this is a problem with the classification, I think this is a problem with how hard it is to build a self-driving car even if you give it these limitations. You're just making a point for how hard a Level 4 system is to build, not how hard it is to define.

sschueller 7y ago

According to Elon [1] Tesla will have this by the end of 2020. At some point reality has to kick in or not? [1] https://www.wired.com/story/elon-musk-tesla-full-self-driving-2019-2020-promise/ https://www.wired.com/story/elon-musk-tesla-full-self-drivin...

threeseed 7y ago
Of course. Which is why many of the key members of the Autopilot team have recently left. https://bgr.com/2019/07/09/tesla-autopilot-team-elon-musk-shakes-up/ https://bgr.com/2019/07/09/tesla-autopilot-team-elon-musk-sh...
- Hydraulix989 7y ago
  How can you be so sure?
  - HeadsUpHigh 7y ago
    Just another Tesla short
- saalweachter 7y ago
  Maybe they finished their work, solved all of the problems including the ones for extra credit on the back of the last page, and went home early?
tim333 7y ago
That article misrepresents what Musk actually said. The actual conversation was more like: Q) When will you be able to fall asleep and let the car drive? A) Uh dunno maybe late 2020. Even if you believe in Musk, he tends to run late so late 2020 seems optimistic. Assuming you are being safety conscious - some idiot will probably do it anyway and post to youtube. It seems to me that self driving systems could do with an algorithmic breakthrough or two before they work satisfactorily. If you look at the Autonomy event video https://youtu.be/Ucp0TTmvqOE?t=6973 https://youtu.be/Ucp0TTmvqOE?t=6973 where Karpathy explains how the systems work, the Japanese Spaniel problem a couple of minutes in to that is the kind of thing that needs fixing.