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I work in downtown Seattle and the people I see affected by the aggressive homeless folks are those who don't know who they are- people visiting or new to downt
by superfamicom 7y ago
I work in downtown Seattle and the people I see affected by the aggressive homeless folks are those who don't know who they are- people visiting or new to downtown. I know which homeless folks are dangerous from experience and which ones are just panhandling. I've personally been spit at, spit on, attacked with a 2x2x18 piece of wood, and had a brick thrown at me (with surprising force), charged at, sexually assaulted (physically), the list goes on.
I've observed the end result of panhandling in various situations: there are the "my family needs help" folks who beg with kids in strollers and at the end of the day get back into their cars in the Target parking lot; there are the folks crying on the street begging for any money to get food, but don't want food directly even if you've already bought it for them with no strings attached; there are also the rare case of someone who was just mugged now trying to get on the bus.
The end result is any compassion I had has been slowly whittled away. Actively avoiding human shit or fresh vomit every morning on the sidewalks and keeping an eye out for needles everywhere (watch where you sit on the bus) really just leaves you tired and unsympathetic.
Pro Tips: avoid 3rd & Pine / Pike, avoid all of 2nd Ave. in general; avoid parks and downtown after dark; do not touch the needles unless you have to (bus seats); do not go into tall grassy or ground obscured areas as there may be needles; avoid the park beaches as they are toilets for the homeless early in the morning (4-6am).
- chmod775 7y agoI'm getting nauseous in more than one way just reading this. How do people living in a place like that not look inwards and wonder at what turn they committed a colossal fuckup that got them where they are now? Your post sounds like fiction to anyone living in civilized conditions, but I don't doubt you are telling the truth (even if you are exaggerating).
- derefr 7y agoThe “how” is that places like this (Seattle, SF, Vancouver BC) have very good municipal support for the homeless, and have pretty good welfare laws at the state level, and have climates that won’t kill you if you sit outside all day. So homeless people from everywhere else in the country gravitate to these places. These cities don’t have a municipal homeless problem; they’re sacrificial goats for entire nations’ homeless problems.
- DanBC 7y agoThe support clearly isn't that good, because places with actually good support don't have these problems.
- cpuguy83 7y agoThe support is great, as I understand it anyway, unless you are addicted to drugs. The places for the homeless to go to do not accept people with drugs, which seems reasonable but then you create this situation with lots of addicts on the streets not getting the help they really need.
- chaostheory 7y agoWhich places? Unfortunately in the US we have decent homelessness support, but we have extremely poor or non-existent mental health support which is what this problem really is
- adt2bt 7y agoI'm with you, because I've walked to work right through 3rd and pike/pine and 2nd for ~5 years now every day and, yeah, it's not ideal, but I also don't live out this post-societal collapse fantasy in my head every time I see a needle or crazy person.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- munificent 7y ago> How do people living in a place like that not look inwards and wonder at what turn they committed a colossal fuckup that got them where they are now? Drugs. It's pretty hard to get yourself out of a bad situation when literally the mechanism in your brain that rewards smart behavior has been taken over by heroin and meth. Ultimately, we do what our brains chemically reward us for doing. If heroin feels better than getting off the street and living a decent life then being a homeless drug user is the best achievement you can have. Heroin is fucked up.
- PhasmaFelis 7y ago> there are the "my family needs help" folks who beg with kids in strollers and at the end of the day get back into their cars in the Target parking lot Someone can own a car and still be in desperate need of help.
- robohamburger 7y agoThey may not even own the car: https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/homeless/mayor-durkan-targets-junk-vehicles-and-the-car-ranchers-who-rent-them-to-homeless-people/ https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/homeless/mayor-dur... Usually you can spot the cars that are homes, at least where I live.
- rdtwo 7y agoI always check their shoes so far every one of them had good expensive footwear. The last one I saw the lady had a shiny pair of brooks similar to mine that go for -100 a pair. It’s likely got something to do with incentives, money earned panhandleing is at least the same as minimum wage probably better, then no taxes and it’s all cash so doesn’t count against government benefits so you can double/triple dip.
- robohamburger 7y agoJust moved back to Seattle and I can feel my empathy slowly eroding away from all this. It is tough and sad to see.
- hairui 7y agoHuh, I also work in downtown Seattle but have never experienced any of this. I very rarely see shit/vomit, have never seen a needle on a bus, have never been spit at or attacked.
- allthecybers 7y ago> Huh, I also work in downtown Seattle but have never experienced any of this. You are fortunate and very lucky in this respect. But I would encourage you to stay situationally aware because the city is getting more dangerous and shit-filled.
- rayiner 7y agoMy wife (who is from Oregon) and I were seriously thinking of moving to Seattle a few years ago. We flew over to go to a few job interviews and see friends. She was attacked by an aggressive (luckily slow) drunk person within 12 hours of being back. I love the city, and would love to move there, but she gave it a hard veto after that experience.
- geebee 7y agoI’m glad to hear that, and I genuinely hope it stays that way. I have been, twice in the last years. Spit on and punched at (the attacker was frail and tweaking, disturbing and menacing but physically unable to hit hard). Other good friends have gotten black eyes and so forth. This is in sf which has a more severe problem (though it is serious in Seattle). This is to say nothing about day to day issues. Last time my wife ride Bart, a man got on and ranted angrily about “bitches”, though to nobody in general. In this case people just avoid eve contact. It has gotten very very bad.
- nevir 7y agoWanted to echo this. I've worked in downtown Seattle for the last 10 years, and frequently use the bus system. (caveat: I'm a white male, so generally in less danger, and may be more oblivious): * I've seen a few brawls (~5) in all that time; generally (all?) swiftly broken up by police * Haven't experienced weapons (or items used as them), whatsoever * I've seen (a handful of) needles in that time, but never on busses * Lots of panhandling, people yelling things, etc. * 2nd/3rd around Pike/Pike is _definitely_ sketchy, and will make you feel uncomfortable walking around there; but it's also where I work atm: so I frequently am in that area, and haven't encountered much.
- allthecybers 7y ago> Actively avoiding human shit or fresh vomit every morning on the sidewalks and keeping an eye out for needles everywhere (watch where you sit on the bus) really just leaves you tired and unsympathetic. In addition to the dump dodging and vomit avoidance, you have to keep an eye on every shifty character in Starbucks or on the street to make sure you aren't going to be another victim of an intentional or inadvertent stabbing. Its getting to the point that for the safety of myself and my loved ones I would recommend commuting by vehicle and make walking around the city the exception rather than the norm.
- robohamburger 7y agoI think also knowing which streets to avoid entirely are good too. Each street has its own vibe and always has. 3rd and pike was bad way back in 2000's in ways that are similar to now. The ambient level of visibly homeless, and more importantly those in actively crisis has gone way up IMO--and you can't really avoid that. Be interesting and depresisng to make map for people to use like that but I am not sure how it wouldn't devolve into fearmongering like nextdoor does. I feel bad for the occasional wide eyed family from the burbs I see walking streets even I wouldn't dare tread on from my car or lyft. edited typo
- allthecybers 7y agoya there is always some scary characters around McStabbys/StabDonalds at 3rd and Pine. I have trouble following the logic when a company decides to plop a corporate office down in the middle of the Seattle sketch corridor. Witnessed a straight up drug deal go down as people with corporate lanyards walked past.
- seanmcdirmid 7y agoHey, I used to work there in the 90s, it’s always been like that. We had off duty cops staffing the place along with a frequently used banned list. And this was when it was two stories, I think it must be easier these days given that they smartly got rid of the second floor dining area.
- rayiner 7y agoRemember kids, drug use is an entirely personal matter that has no effect on anyone else.
- 50656E6973 7y agoAlso remember kids, alcohol is not a drug, even though it leads to more crime and deaths than any other drug in the US
- orangecat 7y agoAlso all drugs are equivalent, and we can avoid their negative effects by making them illegal.
- tomjakubowski 7y agoYes. A UK doctor's account of his patients' lives before and after heroin was made illegal to prescribe: https://www.spectator.co.uk/2015/05/the-case-for-prescription-heroin/ https://www.spectator.co.uk/2015/05/the-case-for-prescriptio...
- tathougies 7y agoYes, we actually can. People like to talk about Prohibition as being a failure, but Prohibition actually resulted in a substantially lower rate of liver cirrhosis. People drank less and suffered less as a result. I'm not saying we need prohibition, but the idea that making drugs illegal doesn't work is absolutely ridiculous.
- sgift 7y agoYes, if we ignore all the other effects (e.g.: financing of organized crime, bringing people in contact with said organized crime) then sure, the prohibition was a sounding success. If we include all of these it doesn't look so great anymore.
- sudosteph 7y agoOne other pro-tip from my time in Seattle: Don't walk under the protected wooding scaffolding they put over sidewalks adjacent to construction after dark. At best you'll be literally stepping over multiple people on the ground - at worst you'll be threatened with nowhere to run.
- DoreenMichele 7y agothere are the folks crying on the street begging for any money to get food, but don't want food directly even if you've already bought it for them with no strings attached Most homeless people have serious health problems. Dietary restrictions are the norm for people with serious health problems. No, you aren't doing a diabetic or someone with life-threatening allergies a favor to act like they should eat whatever the hell a random stranger bought them because "beggars can't be choosers." Plus, you know, people have preferences. Acting like you should stop having food preferences because you are dirt poor is straight up classism of the worst kind.
- mattr47 7y agoNope, not buying this excuse. They don't want food directly because they want cash to go buy other crap. Hey look, I get it, being homeless sucks, but the situation the OP is describing is not working. Seattle, SF & LA have all become shit cities because of the way the govt handles homelessness. They enable not assist.
- DoreenMichele 7y agoThey may also want cash to go spend on "other crap." But I'm kind of a subject matter expert here. This is not an excuse. This is reality. I spent nearly six years homeless. I have very serious health problems. When people gave me food instead of cash, a lot of it went directly into a trash can because I am literally better off going hungry than eating certain things and my dietary restrictions are quite numerous. FYI: Nutrition and prison. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16140867 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16140867
- seanmcdirmid 7y agoThere is the people trying to poison the homeless argument as well, which I can believe might possibly be true (more so in LA than Seattle).
- tomjakubowski 7y agoMy experience interacting with homeless people agrees with DoreenMichelle. "They" are not all the same, many of "them" would tell you some food they'd be grateful for if you'd only ask what they like. I would imagine, even if you're hungry or just feeling horrible, that it's too humiliating to simply accept whatever random food a passing stranger offers you.
- seanmcdirmid 7y agoI worked at 3rd and Pine McDonald’s as a college student in the mid 90s (while commuting from the Ave to boot). It’s always been like this (as far as I can remember in the late 70s), but way worse these days. I was recently trying to convince my wife that we should live in Seattle rather than downtown Bellevue, but for the kid it’s still a no go.
- LordHumungous 7y agoI was downtown waiting for my bus the other day and a burly unwashed man wearing nothing but pants hanging down to his ass crack walks up and starts getting in the face of a young woman standing next to me. I told him to take a hike. A few days later, three people get stabbed downtown at 10am.
- DenisM 7y agoI lived on 2nd and Pike for 2 years, walking to work at Marion every day along the 2nd. It was nothing like this for me - no dangerous incidents, no needles. Agree on panhandlers tho. I actually quite enjoyed it - the waterfront, fresh produce at the market, my favorite cafes. What drove me away was noise and air pollution.