6 ms·

First Moon landing was nearly a US–Soviet mission

99 points by bristleworm 7y ago

Chris_Chambers 7y ago
We never went to the moon.
sandworm101 7y ago
Would never have happened. There were far too many protected technologies, weapons technologies, involved in getting to and from the moon. At some point the plug would have been pulled.
- avmich 7y ago
  The 1975 flight did happen, and before that extensive familiarization with each other technologies needed for that. So I don't think it that obviously would never happen; however, historically speaking we have what we have...
  - sandworm101 7y ago
    Two ships meeting in space is altogether different than two teams working on a single rocket/program to the moon. Apollo-Soyus involved learning of each others abilities, a critical part of cold war/mad deterrence. It did not involve sharing how those abilities were created. The americans didn't give the russians a copy of the guidance computer.
    - avmich 7y ago
      > It did not involve sharing how those abilities were created. Same approach could be used for cooperative Moon flights. In fact, after Apollo-Soyuz we've had Shuttle-Mir and then ISS, and there are plenty of cooperation and cross-studying in those projects. From some point of view, technologies on both sides of Atlantic were similar - there were exceptions, of course, but for professionals working on projects for years the inevitable knowledge osmosis tells a lot. In another sensitive area, achievements in thermonuclear studies, cooperation did happen.
SiempreViernes 7y ago
It is always healthy to be reminded that the seemingly insurmountable divisions of the now are often simply the results of short time choices long ago that had to be defended. Certainly would have been nice if the lunar plaque had been sincere in a wider context.
- arethuza 7y ago
  I always rather liked the 'Fallen Astronaut' which features US astronauts and Soviet cosmonauts and placed on the moon in secret by one of the Apollo crews: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallen_Astronaut https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallen_Astronaut
Faark 7y ago
Wait, soviets already did automated sample returns while apollo was still ongoing [0]?! That's quite a surprise to me... don't think I ever came across this, and I do follow quite a bit of space news. E.g. this [1] recent set of videos how Apollo moon rocks are stored did not mention it at all, and I'd certainly expect them to have exchanged some samples. Now I'd really love to learn more about what kind of tech that long ago achieved the precession necessary for an automated sample return. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luna_16 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luna_16 [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxZ_iPldGtI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxZ_iPldGtI
- deepnotderp 7y ago
  If you think that's interesting, check out the buran shuttle which landed autonomously from orbit, a feat only replicated in the us decades later with the x-37.
  - Faark 7y ago
    Yeah, kinda sad it only made orbit once. Buran is at least mentioned every once in a while, though obviously not as often as Sputnik, Gagarin and the like. Youtube has a bunch of hits for it, while in contrast to what there is barely anything at all in english for "Luna 16". I also vividly remember this photo series about remaining Buran mockups [0]. [0] https://imgur.com/gallery/b70VK https://imgur.com/gallery/b70VK
  - edouard-harris 7y ago
    The American space shuttle orbiter at the time had exactly the same autonomy capabilities as the Buran. The only constraint was computer memory: the astronauts had to manually load magnetic tapes into the flight computer that had the takeoff and landing programs in them.
    - trothamel 7y ago
      The American shuttle also had a few things that needed to be done by hand, like deploying the landing gear and the air data probes. These were actions that are irreversible (once the Shuttle drops its gear, they can't be raised without outside help) and would lead to destruction if they happened too early. During the early Shuttle program, there was a worry about these events happening due to a software problem, so the decision was made to isolate them from the computer. Post-Columbia, cables were made that allowed the shuttles to be re-wired to allow these events to occur under the control of the computer, to allow a damaged shuttle to attempt a return without crew, or to dispose of itself safely.
c-smile 7y ago
> Kennedy’s assassination on 22 November 1963 scotched the plan Not just that plan, but quite many other options. Whoever did this was knowing quite well where we were going… "cui prodest" is the answer I think.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- cbnotfromthere 7y ago
  Tin foil time!
mrtri 7y ago
they never been on the moon,all fake , research it,
rayiner 7y ago
The Soviets beat is to nearly every space milestone. If it wasn’t for the untimely death of the architect of their space program, they would’ve beaten us to the moon too.
- utopian3 7y ago
  Well, they also had spacecraft issues at the end of 1968 that they had to resolve before putting humans into it.

99 points by bristleworm 7y ago

We never went to the moon.

Would never have happened. There were far too many protected technologies, weapons technologies, involved in getting to and from the moon. At some point the plug would have been pulled.

avmich 7y ago
The 1975 flight did happen, and before that extensive familiarization with each other technologies needed for that. So I don't think it that obviously would never happen; however, historically speaking we have what we have...
- sandworm101 7y ago
  Two ships meeting in space is altogether different than two teams working on a single rocket/program to the moon. Apollo-Soyus involved learning of each others abilities, a critical part of cold war/mad deterrence. It did not involve sharing how those abilities were created. The americans didn't give the russians a copy of the guidance computer.
  - avmich 7y ago
    > It did not involve sharing how those abilities were created. Same approach could be used for cooperative Moon flights. In fact, after Apollo-Soyuz we've had Shuttle-Mir and then ISS, and there are plenty of cooperation and cross-studying in those projects. From some point of view, technologies on both sides of Atlantic were similar - there were exceptions, of course, but for professionals working on projects for years the inevitable knowledge osmosis tells a lot. In another sensitive area, achievements in thermonuclear studies, cooperation did happen.

SiempreViernes 7y ago

It is always healthy to be reminded that the seemingly insurmountable divisions of the now are often simply the results of short time choices long ago that had to be defended. Certainly would have been nice if the lunar plaque had been sincere in a wider context.

arethuza 7y ago
I always rather liked the 'Fallen Astronaut' which features US astronauts and Soviet cosmonauts and placed on the moon in secret by one of the Apollo crews: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallen_Astronaut https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallen_Astronaut

Faark 7y ago

Wait, soviets already did automated sample returns while apollo was still ongoing [0]?! That's quite a surprise to me... don't think I ever came across this, and I do follow quite a bit of space news. E.g. this [1] recent set of videos how Apollo moon rocks are stored did not mention it at all, and I'd certainly expect them to have exchanged some samples. Now I'd really love to learn more about what kind of tech that long ago achieved the precession necessary for an automated sample return. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luna_16 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luna_16 [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxZ_iPldGtI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxZ_iPldGtI

deepnotderp 7y ago
If you think that's interesting, check out the buran shuttle which landed autonomously from orbit, a feat only replicated in the us decades later with the x-37.
- Faark 7y ago
  Yeah, kinda sad it only made orbit once. Buran is at least mentioned every once in a while, though obviously not as often as Sputnik, Gagarin and the like. Youtube has a bunch of hits for it, while in contrast to what there is barely anything at all in english for "Luna 16". I also vividly remember this photo series about remaining Buran mockups [0]. [0] https://imgur.com/gallery/b70VK https://imgur.com/gallery/b70VK
- edouard-harris 7y ago
  The American space shuttle orbiter at the time had exactly the same autonomy capabilities as the Buran. The only constraint was computer memory: the astronauts had to manually load magnetic tapes into the flight computer that had the takeoff and landing programs in them.
  - trothamel 7y ago
    The American shuttle also had a few things that needed to be done by hand, like deploying the landing gear and the air data probes. These were actions that are irreversible (once the Shuttle drops its gear, they can't be raised without outside help) and would lead to destruction if they happened too early. During the early Shuttle program, there was a worry about these events happening due to a software problem, so the decision was made to isolate them from the computer. Post-Columbia, cables were made that allowed the shuttles to be re-wired to allow these events to occur under the control of the computer, to allow a damaged shuttle to attempt a return without crew, or to dispose of itself safely.

c-smile 7y ago

> Kennedy’s assassination on 22 November 1963 scotched the plan Not just that plan, but quite many other options. Whoever did this was knowing quite well where we were going… "cui prodest" is the answer I think.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
cbnotfromthere 7y ago
Tin foil time!

mrtri 7y ago

they never been on the moon,all fake , research it,

rayiner 7y ago

The Soviets beat is to nearly every space milestone. If it wasn’t for the untimely death of the architect of their space program, they would’ve beaten us to the moon too.

utopian3 7y ago
Well, they also had spacecraft issues at the end of 1968 that they had to resolve before putting humans into it.