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I've been a paying subscriber to 1Password for over two years now and had the standalone version for years before that, and the way they responded in that threa

I've been a paying subscriber to 1Password for over two years now and had the standalone version for years before that, and the way they responded in that thread really rubbed me the wrong way. Enough that maybe I'm going to start looking for other options. Maybe I'm just in a bad mood? The OP just wanted to know if the feature was gone, and if so when did it get removed (maybe to find an archived version of the app?), and lastly why it wasn't clearly communicated, but you can just smell the smug in the responses. It's hard for me to read their little "cute" emoji as anything but sarcastic, which is reinforced by one of the developers chiming in about how they must be asking to "make their mobile apps free" and the other guy talking about how with so many users anything they do will of course be found out.

hackits 7y ago
Only smug i could tell was in regards to their free app offering, and considering it costs money and resources to maintain those free services their viewpoint is understandable. The feature was removed, they thank them for the feedback for being upset that the feature was removed.
- beckler 7y ago
  The mobile app is free, but creating entries on the mobile app is a paid feature. Either with a subscription, or by buying the "pro" features. Or at least that's how it is on Android.
- jakebasile 7y ago
  I understand that software costs money to maintain and cloud syncing requires infrastructure. But they didn't need to act the way they did in response to someone asking a reasonable set of questions.
  - hackits 7y ago
    I'm saying you're making a big fuss about something that 1. You have no control over, and 2. Doesn't really matter.
    - jakebasile 7y ago
      I don't think I'm making a big fuss about it. I'm not campaigning for a boycott or mass migration or anything. I'm just saying that as a long time customer of AgileBits the way they reacted in the linked thread really didn't sit well with me, so I'm looking for alternatives to their software. What if I have an issue in the future? Will I also be treated poorly?
rudedogg 7y ago
I'm on the Catalina beta and the Safari Extension for 1Password 6 doesn't work (Apple only allows extensions from the App Store starting with Safari 13 - so it's not really AgileBits fault). I chose to migrate to storing everything in iCloud Keychain instead. I understand why companies want to move to the subscription model, but I can't justify spending $36/year for an app to store my passwords.
- jakebasile 7y ago
  The problem with iCloud keychain for me is that I don't only use Apple devices, otherwise it might do the trick (except for TOTP 2FA stuff). I'm trying Bitwarden now and it seems to be ok. Maybe it's time for a change.
  - valarauko 7y ago
    +1 for Bitwarden.
    - bert2002 7y ago
      +1
  - alceta 7y ago
    As a user that made the switch to bitwarden the last time 1Password tried their shift to the membership-only options some 1-2 years ago, it is an excellent replacement. I do miss some better search / sorting functionality, but otherwise this works great with a local server that I maintain for keeping my Mac, Ubuntu, Windows and Android devices in sync.
    - Fnoord 7y ago
      Bitwarden costs only what is it 10 or 12 USD a year. LastPass costs 24 USD, and 1Password 36 USD. If you need 2FA. If you don't need 2FA then it doesn't cost as much, but I think you still have a device limit. Bitwarden's clients are FOSS. There's a 3rd party FOSS server for it available written in Ruby. So you could even self-host. [EDIT: there's one written in Rust as well! [1] [2]] [1] https://github.com/jcs/rubywarden https://github.com/jcs/rubywarden [2] https://github.com/dani-garcia/bitwarden_rs https://github.com/dani-garcia/bitwarden_rs
re 7y ago
I don't think the responses are smug. Ben in particular stands out as patient, forthright, and apologetic. > one of the developers chiming in about how they must be asking to "make their mobile apps free" That isn't the actual quote. The developer is pointing out that the apps are "free to use as companions to our desktop apps". > the other guy talking about how with so many users anything they do will of course be found out This did come across clumsily, but it was in response to the false dilemma "Was it forgotten, or deliberately not mentioned in the hopes nobody [would notice]?"
- henntipular 7y ago
  Ok totally-not-Ben, looks like you got us!
stevenjohns 7y ago
Yep, I feel the same way. The responses went downhill really quickly. I only just jumped back onto the MacOS bandwagon and was looking at resubscribing (I've had an awesome experience with their email customer support reps in the past which brought me back) but if this is how the public facing side of the development team acts... yikes. I'll be much more open to alternatives now than I would have been yesterday.
dawnerd 7y ago
It seems their software quality in general have been going downhill recently. Lots of changes just for the sake of changing. The new extension doesn't work about 40% of the time or require multiple keystrokes to get it to pop up. The windows version is just, ugh.
- owenwil 7y ago
  Huh, I thought it was getting better across the board, and significantly faster. 1P is actually investing in proper cross-platform support, rather than only macOS, so perhaps it's just less attention to detail? The Windows client has become fantastic.
  - dawnerd 7y ago
    No doubt the Windows app has gotten better but there's a lot of weird quirks with it. Example off the top of my head, if you click on the favorites sidebar and try to search it only searches in favorites. On mac it searches everywhere as I'd expect. The UI in general also just feels clunky. It's missing that polish the mac app has.
    - owenwil 7y ago
      I would expect contextual search, rather than "everywhere" search if I was filtering...
  - slantyyz 7y ago
    I don't know if I'd use the word "fantastic". In many ways, I feel that the Windows and Android clients in particular are still second class citizens compared to their Mac/IOS counterparts.
- eeeeeeeeeeeee 7y ago
  I completely agree. It used to be a very simple piece of software (I’ve used it since the beginning) and they’ve progressively tried to add more UX changes which only confuse and add reliability issues. Simple tasks like resetting a password or adding an entry in 1Pass can often be frustrating now.
sashk 7y ago
I feel exactly same. Recently I complained about decreased usability issues with re-worked 1Password mini and... felt exactly same. I won't be looking for a replacement just yet, but feeling is right there. Dropping support for standalone vaults is not unexpected development.
matwood 7y ago
Reading that thread makes me happy I ditched 1Password when they first moved to a subscription model.
- tsieling 7y ago
  What did you move to?
  - matwood 7y ago
    Plain old Apple keychain while I evaluated other options. While I was evaluating, I realized the keychain was fine for my current needs. I'll evaluate again when my needs change.
  - chewz 7y ago
    Keepass with passhole in terminal, Keepass2Android on Android and Tusk extension in Chrome. Keepass comunity solutions are strong and open source. And free. https://github.com/PhilippC/keepass2android https://github.com/PhilippC/keepass2android https://subdavis.com/Tusk/ https://subdavis.com/Tusk/ https://github.com/Evidlo/passhole https://github.com/Evidlo/passhole
foobarqwerty 7y ago
Also a paying subscriber, and also appalled at the response from 1P team. Will keep this in mind when recommending to family and friends, which I do a lot, and will definitely keep an eye out for alternatives moving forward. The latest extension for Chrome on Windows and Mac barely works for me half the time with the latest update.
- slantyyz 7y ago
  Here's a recent experience I had with them... When you have sync issues, the workaround in the absence of a Force Sync button (which used to exist) is to create a dummy secure note or to log out and log in again. Most users won't know this workaround without spending several minutes Googling and digging through search results. I complained about the lack of a Force Sync button on the clients in the forums, and was told this: "The reason we don't want too easy an option to force a sync is precisely because folks will choose to use that rather than reaching out to find the root cause" Needless to say, I wasn't pleased to find out that they wanted to use their paying customers as free testers. I'd like to switch away, but most of the alternatives I've looked at don't compare very favorably from a UI/UX perspective.
  - pratnala 7y ago
    Try Bitwarden
chubasco 7y ago
"Thanks for your feedback."
anthonybsd 7y ago
Same here. I've been using 1Password for over 11 years. Paid for multiple licenses, family subscriptions, upgrades, etc. Their recent behavior which indicates direct hostility to their long time users and obvious money grabs. Since it looks like it's subscription model no matter where I turn I'm thinking about migrating to LastPass. At least they are more or less transparent in their pricing and future intentions.
swift532 7y ago
I find it very infuriating in general when someone uses a cute or smiley emoji after telling me something negative. I'm sure that mostly I'm paranoid and irrationally irate about that, but I can't help thinking that people are rubbing it in my face when they do that. Am I the problem?
- khalilravanna 7y ago
  I think the intent when using those emojis is to communicate that they really are trying to be nice while giving negative news. Text is a really hard medium to convey emotion or intent through. For example, I find if I want to sound positive I end up having to add an exclamation point at the end of every sentence (“Nice job.” Vs “Nice job!”) That all being said, I absolutely agree the emojis almost always are perceived in a way that’s opposite of the intent, e.g. smug, sarcastic, or some other negative tone.
noneeeed 7y ago
Likewise. I've been a long-time user, and currently a subscriber, but I've just found the direction 1P is heading, and the way AgileBits communicate a lot of this to be frustrating. It's difficult to explain, but every time something like this comes up their responses frequently seem "off" and tone deaf. I'm not sure they understand how much their product can become a part of how people go about their daily life, and how changing that, no matter how small, can have pretty significant effects, with an accompanying emotional response. A while back they changed the way their vaults worked and you had to upgrade them. I've never been more nervous about an update to anything than I was with that update. The way the software communicated what was going to happen really didn't help, and there was a real feeling that this could all go horribly wrong. Something I respect from Basecamp is their commitment to keeping their old products around (and keeping them maintained, even if they get no new features). They understand that they become a part of people's lives, and you mess that up at your peril. "Sunsetting" products or features has an impact on your customers that you need to be prepared for. For reasons that are difficult to articulate I just don't trust AgileBits to not completely bugger up things for me in some way by changing something that they regard as unimportant, but to me is significant. Even to me, this feels like I'm probably overreacting, but my passwords and online identities are so important that even the smallest hint of untrustworthyness is unnerving. The impact of losing all those details would be massive.
brantonb 7y ago
I was turned off by their smugness back before they had a Windows version. Their justification was that the platform didn’t allow them to build the type of beautiful software their high standards required. They’ve always had these attitudes that have rubbed me the wrong way. I’ve never gone onto their subscription model, but I’m wondering if iCloud would work for me since I’m fully in Apple’s ecosystem.
- notus 7y ago
  Making pretty software in Windows is totally doable, people just don't make the effort.

hackits 7y ago

Only smug i could tell was in regards to their free app offering, and considering it costs money and resources to maintain those free services their viewpoint is understandable. The feature was removed, they thank them for the feedback for being upset that the feature was removed.

beckler 7y ago
The mobile app is free, but creating entries on the mobile app is a paid feature. Either with a subscription, or by buying the "pro" features. Or at least that's how it is on Android.
jakebasile 7y ago
I understand that software costs money to maintain and cloud syncing requires infrastructure. But they didn't need to act the way they did in response to someone asking a reasonable set of questions.
- hackits 7y ago
  I'm saying you're making a big fuss about something that 1. You have no control over, and 2. Doesn't really matter.
  - jakebasile 7y ago
    I don't think I'm making a big fuss about it. I'm not campaigning for a boycott or mass migration or anything. I'm just saying that as a long time customer of AgileBits the way they reacted in the linked thread really didn't sit well with me, so I'm looking for alternatives to their software. What if I have an issue in the future? Will I also be treated poorly?

rudedogg 7y ago

I'm on the Catalina beta and the Safari Extension for 1Password 6 doesn't work (Apple only allows extensions from the App Store starting with Safari 13 - so it's not really AgileBits fault). I chose to migrate to storing everything in iCloud Keychain instead. I understand why companies want to move to the subscription model, but I can't justify spending $36/year for an app to store my passwords.

jakebasile 7y ago
The problem with iCloud keychain for me is that I don't only use Apple devices, otherwise it might do the trick (except for TOTP 2FA stuff). I'm trying Bitwarden now and it seems to be ok. Maybe it's time for a change.
- valarauko 7y ago
  +1 for Bitwarden.
  - bert2002 7y ago
    +1
- alceta 7y ago
  As a user that made the switch to bitwarden the last time 1Password tried their shift to the membership-only options some 1-2 years ago, it is an excellent replacement. I do miss some better search / sorting functionality, but otherwise this works great with a local server that I maintain for keeping my Mac, Ubuntu, Windows and Android devices in sync.
  - Fnoord 7y ago
    Bitwarden costs only what is it 10 or 12 USD a year. LastPass costs 24 USD, and 1Password 36 USD. If you need 2FA. If you don't need 2FA then it doesn't cost as much, but I think you still have a device limit. Bitwarden's clients are FOSS. There's a 3rd party FOSS server for it available written in Ruby. So you could even self-host. [EDIT: there's one written in Rust as well! [1] [2]] [1] https://github.com/jcs/rubywarden https://github.com/jcs/rubywarden [2] https://github.com/dani-garcia/bitwarden_rs https://github.com/dani-garcia/bitwarden_rs

re 7y ago

I don't think the responses are smug. Ben in particular stands out as patient, forthright, and apologetic. > one of the developers chiming in about how they must be asking to "make their mobile apps free" That isn't the actual quote. The developer is pointing out that the apps are "free to use as companions to our desktop apps". > the other guy talking about how with so many users anything they do will of course be found out This did come across clumsily, but it was in response to the false dilemma "Was it forgotten, or deliberately not mentioned in the hopes nobody [would notice]?"

henntipular 7y ago
Ok totally-not-Ben, looks like you got us!

stevenjohns 7y ago

Yep, I feel the same way. The responses went downhill really quickly. I only just jumped back onto the MacOS bandwagon and was looking at resubscribing (I've had an awesome experience with their email customer support reps in the past which brought me back) but if this is how the public facing side of the development team acts... yikes. I'll be much more open to alternatives now than I would have been yesterday.

dawnerd 7y ago

It seems their software quality in general have been going downhill recently. Lots of changes just for the sake of changing. The new extension doesn't work about 40% of the time or require multiple keystrokes to get it to pop up. The windows version is just, ugh.

owenwil 7y ago
Huh, I thought it was getting better across the board, and significantly faster. 1P is actually investing in proper cross-platform support, rather than only macOS, so perhaps it's just less attention to detail? The Windows client has become fantastic.
- dawnerd 7y ago
  No doubt the Windows app has gotten better but there's a lot of weird quirks with it. Example off the top of my head, if you click on the favorites sidebar and try to search it only searches in favorites. On mac it searches everywhere as I'd expect. The UI in general also just feels clunky. It's missing that polish the mac app has.
  - owenwil 7y ago
    I would expect contextual search, rather than "everywhere" search if I was filtering...
- slantyyz 7y ago
  I don't know if I'd use the word "fantastic". In many ways, I feel that the Windows and Android clients in particular are still second class citizens compared to their Mac/IOS counterparts.
eeeeeeeeeeeee 7y ago
I completely agree. It used to be a very simple piece of software (I’ve used it since the beginning) and they’ve progressively tried to add more UX changes which only confuse and add reliability issues. Simple tasks like resetting a password or adding an entry in 1Pass can often be frustrating now.

sashk 7y ago

I feel exactly same. Recently I complained about decreased usability issues with re-worked 1Password mini and... felt exactly same. I won't be looking for a replacement just yet, but feeling is right there. Dropping support for standalone vaults is not unexpected development.

matwood 7y ago

Reading that thread makes me happy I ditched 1Password when they first moved to a subscription model.

tsieling 7y ago
What did you move to?
- matwood 7y ago
  Plain old Apple keychain while I evaluated other options. While I was evaluating, I realized the keychain was fine for my current needs. I'll evaluate again when my needs change.
- chewz 7y ago
  Keepass with passhole in terminal, Keepass2Android on Android and Tusk extension in Chrome. Keepass comunity solutions are strong and open source. And free. https://github.com/PhilippC/keepass2android https://github.com/PhilippC/keepass2android https://subdavis.com/Tusk/ https://subdavis.com/Tusk/ https://github.com/Evidlo/passhole https://github.com/Evidlo/passhole

foobarqwerty 7y ago

Also a paying subscriber, and also appalled at the response from 1P team. Will keep this in mind when recommending to family and friends, which I do a lot, and will definitely keep an eye out for alternatives moving forward. The latest extension for Chrome on Windows and Mac barely works for me half the time with the latest update.

slantyyz 7y ago
Here's a recent experience I had with them... When you have sync issues, the workaround in the absence of a Force Sync button (which used to exist) is to create a dummy secure note or to log out and log in again. Most users won't know this workaround without spending several minutes Googling and digging through search results. I complained about the lack of a Force Sync button on the clients in the forums, and was told this: "The reason we don't want too easy an option to force a sync is precisely because folks will choose to use that rather than reaching out to find the root cause" Needless to say, I wasn't pleased to find out that they wanted to use their paying customers as free testers. I'd like to switch away, but most of the alternatives I've looked at don't compare very favorably from a UI/UX perspective.
- pratnala 7y ago
  Try Bitwarden

chubasco 7y ago

"Thanks for your feedback."

anthonybsd 7y ago

Same here. I've been using 1Password for over 11 years. Paid for multiple licenses, family subscriptions, upgrades, etc. Their recent behavior which indicates direct hostility to their long time users and obvious money grabs. Since it looks like it's subscription model no matter where I turn I'm thinking about migrating to LastPass. At least they are more or less transparent in their pricing and future intentions.

swift532 7y ago

I find it very infuriating in general when someone uses a cute or smiley emoji after telling me something negative. I'm sure that mostly I'm paranoid and irrationally irate about that, but I can't help thinking that people are rubbing it in my face when they do that. Am I the problem?

khalilravanna 7y ago
I think the intent when using those emojis is to communicate that they really are trying to be nice while giving negative news. Text is a really hard medium to convey emotion or intent through. For example, I find if I want to sound positive I end up having to add an exclamation point at the end of every sentence (“Nice job.” Vs “Nice job!”) That all being said, I absolutely agree the emojis almost always are perceived in a way that’s opposite of the intent, e.g. smug, sarcastic, or some other negative tone.

noneeeed 7y ago

Likewise. I've been a long-time user, and currently a subscriber, but I've just found the direction 1P is heading, and the way AgileBits communicate a lot of this to be frustrating. It's difficult to explain, but every time something like this comes up their responses frequently seem "off" and tone deaf. I'm not sure they understand how much their product can become a part of how people go about their daily life, and how changing that, no matter how small, can have pretty significant effects, with an accompanying emotional response. A while back they changed the way their vaults worked and you had to upgrade them. I've never been more nervous about an update to anything than I was with that update. The way the software communicated what was going to happen really didn't help, and there was a real feeling that this could all go horribly wrong. Something I respect from Basecamp is their commitment to keeping their old products around (and keeping them maintained, even if they get no new features). They understand that they become a part of people's lives, and you mess that up at your peril. "Sunsetting" products or features has an impact on your customers that you need to be prepared for. For reasons that are difficult to articulate I just don't trust AgileBits to not completely bugger up things for me in some way by changing something that they regard as unimportant, but to me is significant. Even to me, this feels like I'm probably overreacting, but my passwords and online identities are so important that even the smallest hint of untrustworthyness is unnerving. The impact of losing all those details would be massive.

brantonb 7y ago

I was turned off by their smugness back before they had a Windows version. Their justification was that the platform didn’t allow them to build the type of beautiful software their high standards required. They’ve always had these attitudes that have rubbed me the wrong way. I’ve never gone onto their subscription model, but I’m wondering if iCloud would work for me since I’m fully in Apple’s ecosystem.

notus 7y ago
Making pretty software in Windows is totally doable, people just don't make the effort.