5 ms·

Storing Data in Music

55 points by mmoez 7y ago

TrackerFF 7y ago
Pretty sure this is old tech now? There used to be a light-show app that relied on the same principle. The app received (audio) signals at high frequencies, and would then use the screen to flash different colors - basically sequenced by the incoming signal. It was used at sports events and such, so that when all the attendees fired up the same app, they'd create cool light shows.
- wastholm 7y ago
  > Pretty sure this is old tech now? It seems they're claiming higher bitrates than existing techniques.
- mtberatwork 7y ago
  That sounds a bit similar to cue tones [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cue_tone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cue_tone
amelius 7y ago
Another application is DRM, e.g. storing "This song is licensed to ..." in the music. Let's hope we're not heading that direction.
- VvR-Ox 7y ago
  This isn't a problem. Software can find the delta and filter it out.
  - richrichardsson 7y ago
    This isn't a problem if you pay for your music.
    - kitotik 7y ago
      I’d be pretty pissed if all my purchased music basically had a notch filter at 10k.
    - zuminator 7y ago
      Quite the contrary. Pirates can spoof their identities with vpns and stolen credit cards, and won't care if a piece of IP gets tagged with their fake ID. But paying customers will have their personalized codes publicized every time they play a song at a party, use a snippet for a ringtone or put a bit of background music in a video clip.
    - VvR-Ox 7y ago
      That is the typical 1-dimensional view of one who has the money to pay for art, literature and culture. Do you also believe the story that sony bmg etc. loose money because of pirating? The opposite is true! Pirates become fans and eventually buy stuff when they can because they want to support artists so they can bring out new stuff and come to events to play concerts.
rjmunro 7y ago
I was hoping this would be like in the film "The man with one red shoe" where the theory is that a violinist in an Orchestra is encoding secrets into his performance that normal people in the audience would not detect, but it could be detected and decoded if you knew what to look for.
- aasasd 7y ago
  That description reminds me of: https://youtube.com/watch?v=J1p5zOM96f0 https://youtube.com/watch?v=J1p5zOM96f0
benjaminwai 7y ago
This reminds me of stories about coded messages during World War II [1]. This could be used to maybe embed data messages within public broadcasts? I wonder how much data quality could degrade over AM/FM modulations. There is of course packet radio for data transmissions, but I am specifically thinking about public broadcast. A scenario I thought of is a broadcast in distressed areas, similar to the WWII coded messages, but with addition of data layer embedded that could authenticate the authenticity of the messages, for example. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_Londres https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_Londres
- ThinkingGuy 7y ago
  Music broadcasts were also used to send secret message to hostages in Colombia: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8852772 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8852772
nippoo 7y ago
An obvious marketable application for this is location tracking. Advertisers could embed more detailed positional information into audio / video advertising and use apps to get more granular information on who’s listening to it. A logical extension of https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/android-apps-beacons-tracking-users-inaudible-sound-hidden-adverts-ultrasonic-audio-privacy-phones-a7723871.html%3famp https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/life-st...
HocusLocus 7y ago
[Whistling distractedly] Don't mind me... my microphone ears are just open all the time just to catch the fleeting sound of data encoded into music!

55 points by mmoez 7y ago

Pretty sure this is old tech now? There used to be a light-show app that relied on the same principle. The app received (audio) signals at high frequencies, and would then use the screen to flash different colors - basically sequenced by the incoming signal. It was used at sports events and such, so that when all the attendees fired up the same app, they'd create cool light shows.

wastholm 7y ago
> Pretty sure this is old tech now? It seems they're claiming higher bitrates than existing techniques.
mtberatwork 7y ago
That sounds a bit similar to cue tones [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cue_tone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cue_tone

amelius 7y ago

Another application is DRM, e.g. storing "This song is licensed to ..." in the music. Let's hope we're not heading that direction.

VvR-Ox 7y ago
This isn't a problem. Software can find the delta and filter it out.
- richrichardsson 7y ago
  This isn't a problem if you pay for your music.
  - kitotik 7y ago
    I’d be pretty pissed if all my purchased music basically had a notch filter at 10k.
  - zuminator 7y ago
    Quite the contrary. Pirates can spoof their identities with vpns and stolen credit cards, and won't care if a piece of IP gets tagged with their fake ID. But paying customers will have their personalized codes publicized every time they play a song at a party, use a snippet for a ringtone or put a bit of background music in a video clip.
  - VvR-Ox 7y ago
    That is the typical 1-dimensional view of one who has the money to pay for art, literature and culture. Do you also believe the story that sony bmg etc. loose money because of pirating? The opposite is true! Pirates become fans and eventually buy stuff when they can because they want to support artists so they can bring out new stuff and come to events to play concerts.

rjmunro 7y ago

I was hoping this would be like in the film "The man with one red shoe" where the theory is that a violinist in an Orchestra is encoding secrets into his performance that normal people in the audience would not detect, but it could be detected and decoded if you knew what to look for.

aasasd 7y ago
That description reminds me of: https://youtube.com/watch?v=J1p5zOM96f0 https://youtube.com/watch?v=J1p5zOM96f0

benjaminwai 7y ago

This reminds me of stories about coded messages during World War II [1]. This could be used to maybe embed data messages within public broadcasts? I wonder how much data quality could degrade over AM/FM modulations. There is of course packet radio for data transmissions, but I am specifically thinking about public broadcast. A scenario I thought of is a broadcast in distressed areas, similar to the WWII coded messages, but with addition of data layer embedded that could authenticate the authenticity of the messages, for example. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_Londres https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_Londres

ThinkingGuy 7y ago
Music broadcasts were also used to send secret message to hostages in Colombia: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8852772 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8852772

nippoo 7y ago

An obvious marketable application for this is location tracking. Advertisers could embed more detailed positional information into audio / video advertising and use apps to get more granular information on who’s listening to it. A logical extension of https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/android-apps-beacons-tracking-users-inaudible-sound-hidden-adverts-ultrasonic-audio-privacy-phones-a7723871.html%3famp https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/life-st...

HocusLocus 7y ago

[Whistling distractedly] Don't mind me... my microphone ears are just open all the time just to catch the fleeting sound of data encoded into music!