4 ms·

These people's "perfect" memories are purely autobiographical. They cannot memorize large lists of numbers quickly, or recite the entirety of The Bible from mem

These people's "perfect" memories are purely autobiographical. They cannot memorize large lists of numbers quickly, or recite the entirety of The Bible from memory, or excel at any other task that requires rapid, verifiable memorization. Nothing about this is inconsistent with these people simply spending, for whatever reason, a considerable amount of effort to memorize and catalog the minutiae of their lives, but otherwise having normal mental faculties.

dannyb 16y ago
I agree with the sentiment of your point, but this does represent "normal mental faculties" in any way. They are clearly extraordinary in this one sense and that alone doesn't allow them to be classified as normal. I watched this spot on 60 minutes and I am not convinced that these people are normal with respect to mental health. They had a very odd affect at times. Still, it was amazing to watch people recall things that happened over 20 years ago with clarity and precision.
- joe_the_user 16y ago
  No, It is normal for a person to have superb mastery and recall of an area of study on which they spend considerable time and effort on an ongoing basis. You can find an ornithologist who has a really amazing knowledge of birds too.
  - dannyb 16y ago
    I think you're completely misunderstanding the thrust of the article. This ability goes far beyond memorizing knowledge in one specialized area. These people go through hours (up to 8 at a time) of testing about the everyday mundane events that have happened as well as the extraordinary things - there is no way for them to trick their testers. In the 60 minute piece, they could recall amazing detail about days from 20 years ago. This goes far beyond memorizing weather patterns and reconstructing information according to the regularity of a work schedule, etc. I think what a lot of people are noticing here is that this extraordinary ability has not been commensurate with extraordinary accomplishments and it leads them to downplay the significance...
    - joe_the_user 16y ago
      I'm not saying their abilities aren't "extraordinary" or at least very impressive compared to what one might naively imagine. I am more saying that people who spend endorsement efforts in other areas also tend to gain enormous abilities and so these are "normal" extraordinary abilities. The point others have raised about these people not having abilities in other areas goes beyond this "unique talent" "not transferring". The point is that the people with these "abilities" spend a fair portion of their waking hours maintaining them. The memories may be accurate but they're "honed", time is spent codifying them. Most specifically, the memories are clearly very different anything "photographic". Just consider, if a person actually a video tape of their entire life, using said tape to answer questions about "what happen on day X" would take a few hours of mental processing. These people answer such questions instantly. They've made themselves "experts" on one subject, themselves, and the ability give instant answers on that subject is a clue to this...
      - jerf 16y ago
        'Just consider, if a person actually a video tape of their entire life, using said tape to answer questions about "what happen on day X" would take a few hours of mental processing.' You're making a huge pile of unsupported assertions, but this is the most egregious. You have the outline of an interesting theory, but little more. For one thing I see no evidence that there is any conscious effort made to maintain these memories, in many cases the people express every desire not to have this happen, yet it happens anyhow. At the point where your "making themselves experts" happens at a purely automatic level and against their conscious will you've stretched the words beyond any reasonable meaning, and I'm not sure your theory can even in principle be converted into something that corresponds to the real world.
      - VMG 16y ago
        The article states that some of these people don't even want to remember everything - so there obviously are people who don't spend a lot of time exercising this skill but who simply have it.
- goodside 16y ago
  When I was in high school, I could recite nearly 1,500 digits of pi from memory. This wasn't because I had number-memorizing superpowers, it was because I was a geek and I spent time memorizing numbers. If you look at interviews with top competitive mnemonists, you find very few who claim to have (let alone actually have) any sort of "photographic memory" or even autistic savantisms. It's just a mundane subject with strategies and tricks. People don't close their eyes and see numbers, they break them up into convenient chunks, look for symmetries and patterns, and memorize them. You can't underestimate what people can accomplish when they have severe abnormalities in their interests. Calendar-counting to compute days of the week is not hard. Weather patterns are easily mentally compressible, with natural chunking points from the seasons. Most people's work schedules are highly regular, so it's easy to break weeks into patterns and exceptions. And so on. Everything that's demonstrated in this article is well within the realm of feasibility for a sufficiently dedicated person without superpowers.
  - rue 16y ago
    I'm sorry to inform you, but you in fact do have number-memorizing superpowers (or, alternately, "focusing on task and persevering" superpowers).
    - edanm 16y ago
      I think the point he was trying to make is this: would you consider someone who could completely crush you at, say, basketball, to have "abnormal powers"? I'm not talking pros, I'm talking about people who've played sports all their lives. They can probably beat most people at their chosen sports. And a lot of perfectly "normal/average" people are really good at one sport or another. We don't talk about them as if they're "abnormal". Haven't done it, but I'm guessing that memorizing 1500 digits of pi is easier and less time consuming than getting to a decent level at some sport. Except that for most people, playing sport is fun, so they don't think about it as "extreme concentration". For the op, memorizing digits of pi was fun (I'm guessing?).
      - comster 16y ago
baddox 16y ago
What is the decision procedure for if some memory is "autobiographical"? I don't understand why, if the person read a long list of numbers, they wouldn't be able to remember them, yet they can remember a long list of things they ate, the weather, or what TV shows they watched. I wish the article went into more detail about how "perfect" these memories are. Of course, other than big events (series premieres, awards ceremonies) and well-recorded things like the weather, it's very difficult to verify their accuracy. I have other questions. Is there an "alertness level" required for memories to be committed? I've gone several days in a row just sitting around my house lazy and completely unaware of what day of the week or date was. If I had this "perfect memory," would I be able to recall decades later the day of the week or the date?
- tedunangst 16y ago
  In at least one instance, it turned out the woman was able to remember everything she did because she spent a lot of time thinking about and reviewing what she did. She didn't spend nearly as much time memorizing numbers and wasn't as good at it. http://www.wired.com/medtech/health/magazine/17-04/ff_perfectmemory http://www.wired.com/medtech/health/magazine/17-04/ff_perfec...
comster 16y ago
So what's the point, right? Do they use their skills in particularly useful ways?
VMG 16y ago
But how many six-year-olds would succeed at memorizing every event in their their life if they ever decided to do so? Since there wasn't any environmental stimulus for them to do so I suspect a genetic reason for their ability. They also never mentioned that they somehow decided to spend a lot of time cataloging their memories. It seems to be totally effortless for them.

dannyb 16y ago

I agree with the sentiment of your point, but this does represent "normal mental faculties" in any way. They are clearly extraordinary in this one sense and that alone doesn't allow them to be classified as normal. I watched this spot on 60 minutes and I am not convinced that these people are normal with respect to mental health. They had a very odd affect at times. Still, it was amazing to watch people recall things that happened over 20 years ago with clarity and precision.

joe_the_user 16y ago
No, It is normal for a person to have superb mastery and recall of an area of study on which they spend considerable time and effort on an ongoing basis. You can find an ornithologist who has a really amazing knowledge of birds too.
- dannyb 16y ago
  I think you're completely misunderstanding the thrust of the article. This ability goes far beyond memorizing knowledge in one specialized area. These people go through hours (up to 8 at a time) of testing about the everyday mundane events that have happened as well as the extraordinary things - there is no way for them to trick their testers. In the 60 minute piece, they could recall amazing detail about days from 20 years ago. This goes far beyond memorizing weather patterns and reconstructing information according to the regularity of a work schedule, etc. I think what a lot of people are noticing here is that this extraordinary ability has not been commensurate with extraordinary accomplishments and it leads them to downplay the significance...
  - joe_the_user 16y ago
    I'm not saying their abilities aren't "extraordinary" or at least very impressive compared to what one might naively imagine. I am more saying that people who spend endorsement efforts in other areas also tend to gain enormous abilities and so these are "normal" extraordinary abilities. The point others have raised about these people not having abilities in other areas goes beyond this "unique talent" "not transferring". The point is that the people with these "abilities" spend a fair portion of their waking hours maintaining them. The memories may be accurate but they're "honed", time is spent codifying them. Most specifically, the memories are clearly very different anything "photographic". Just consider, if a person actually a video tape of their entire life, using said tape to answer questions about "what happen on day X" would take a few hours of mental processing. These people answer such questions instantly. They've made themselves "experts" on one subject, themselves, and the ability give instant answers on that subject is a clue to this...
    - jerf 16y ago
      'Just consider, if a person actually a video tape of their entire life, using said tape to answer questions about "what happen on day X" would take a few hours of mental processing.' You're making a huge pile of unsupported assertions, but this is the most egregious. You have the outline of an interesting theory, but little more. For one thing I see no evidence that there is any conscious effort made to maintain these memories, in many cases the people express every desire not to have this happen, yet it happens anyhow. At the point where your "making themselves experts" happens at a purely automatic level and against their conscious will you've stretched the words beyond any reasonable meaning, and I'm not sure your theory can even in principle be converted into something that corresponds to the real world.
    - VMG 16y ago
      The article states that some of these people don't even want to remember everything - so there obviously are people who don't spend a lot of time exercising this skill but who simply have it.
goodside 16y ago
When I was in high school, I could recite nearly 1,500 digits of pi from memory. This wasn't because I had number-memorizing superpowers, it was because I was a geek and I spent time memorizing numbers. If you look at interviews with top competitive mnemonists, you find very few who claim to have (let alone actually have) any sort of "photographic memory" or even autistic savantisms. It's just a mundane subject with strategies and tricks. People don't close their eyes and see numbers, they break them up into convenient chunks, look for symmetries and patterns, and memorize them. You can't underestimate what people can accomplish when they have severe abnormalities in their interests. Calendar-counting to compute days of the week is not hard. Weather patterns are easily mentally compressible, with natural chunking points from the seasons. Most people's work schedules are highly regular, so it's easy to break weeks into patterns and exceptions. And so on. Everything that's demonstrated in this article is well within the realm of feasibility for a sufficiently dedicated person without superpowers.
- rue 16y ago
  I'm sorry to inform you, but you in fact do have number-memorizing superpowers (or, alternately, "focusing on task and persevering" superpowers).
  - edanm 16y ago
    I think the point he was trying to make is this: would you consider someone who could completely crush you at, say, basketball, to have "abnormal powers"? I'm not talking pros, I'm talking about people who've played sports all their lives. They can probably beat most people at their chosen sports. And a lot of perfectly "normal/average" people are really good at one sport or another. We don't talk about them as if they're "abnormal". Haven't done it, but I'm guessing that memorizing 1500 digits of pi is easier and less time consuming than getting to a decent level at some sport. Except that for most people, playing sport is fun, so they don't think about it as "extreme concentration". For the op, memorizing digits of pi was fun (I'm guessing?).
    - comster 16y ago

baddox 16y ago

What is the decision procedure for if some memory is "autobiographical"? I don't understand why, if the person read a long list of numbers, they wouldn't be able to remember them, yet they can remember a long list of things they ate, the weather, or what TV shows they watched. I wish the article went into more detail about how "perfect" these memories are. Of course, other than big events (series premieres, awards ceremonies) and well-recorded things like the weather, it's very difficult to verify their accuracy. I have other questions. Is there an "alertness level" required for memories to be committed? I've gone several days in a row just sitting around my house lazy and completely unaware of what day of the week or date was. If I had this "perfect memory," would I be able to recall decades later the day of the week or the date?

tedunangst 16y ago
In at least one instance, it turned out the woman was able to remember everything she did because she spent a lot of time thinking about and reviewing what she did. She didn't spend nearly as much time memorizing numbers and wasn't as good at it. http://www.wired.com/medtech/health/magazine/17-04/ff_perfectmemory http://www.wired.com/medtech/health/magazine/17-04/ff_perfec...

comster 16y ago

So what's the point, right? Do they use their skills in particularly useful ways?

VMG 16y ago

But how many six-year-olds would succeed at memorizing every event in their their life if they ever decided to do so? Since there wasn't any environmental stimulus for them to do so I suspect a genetic reason for their ability. They also never mentioned that they somehow decided to spend a lot of time cataloging their memories. It seems to be totally effortless for them.