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International Air Travel is one of the most heavily taxed, if not the most heavily taxed, activity. It's not unusual for the taxes to exceed the ticket price. H

• dewey 7y ago
  Take-off and landing account for a lot more pollution than a flight in cruising altitude on long trips. That's why we usually talk about the problematic domestic flights where trains are an alternative. There's not really a good alternative for long haul flights. Flights within Europe are not that heavily taxed, otherwise I wouldn't be able to fly Berlin - Brussels for 9 Euros.
  • rsj_hn 7y ago
    Yes, the huge taxes are generally for international flights, and I think part of the reason is that, as you say, there aren't a lot of options for those flights so they have a captive market and are thus better able to bear those taxes. If you start with punitive taxes on domestic flights in the EU, it will disproportionately hit the airline industry there. As with many things, the game with taxes is how to make the incidence of the tax fall more on the consumer and less on the producer. If you can accomplish that, then the tax is more likely to get through because unfortunately we don't have consumer lobbyists anywhere as strong as the business lobbyists.
    • briandear 7y ago
      Taxes always fall on the consumer. Businesses don’t pay tax. https://miltonfriedman.hoover.org/friedman_images/Collections/2016c21/NW_11_29_1971.pdf https://miltonfriedman.hoover.org/friedman_images/Collection...
      • mhuffman 7y ago
        That depends on the product being taxed. I learned this in econ101 that the price elasticity of demand determines who bears the bulk of a tax. I don’t have references in my old textbooks handy, but here is exactly the same concept as I learned it[1] Basically, if demand for a product is inelastic (eg. cigarettes, insulin) that will pretty much be 100% passed on to customers by the business. You can see the supplied link for examples where the seller has no choice but to eat the tax (or most of it) or people will just stop purchasing. [1] https://www.khanacademy.org/economics-finance-domain/microeconomics/elasticity-tutorial/price-elasticity-tutorial/a/elasticity-and-tax-incidence https://www.khanacademy.org/economics-finance-domain/microec...
    • snappieT 7y ago
      This doesn't explain why Norwegian are above to fly transatlantic for as low as $104 one-way (PVD-DUB on Feb 5th). I know that Providence airport likely charges lower fees, but it demonstrates how little "tax" is being paid on international flights.
      • JAlexoid 7y ago
        Norwegian has been hemorrhaging money recently, because they can't compete with traditional airlines. I used to be a great proponent of Norwegian... but now... They cost as much, with less flexibility.
        • snappieT 7y ago
          My example literally demonstrates just how cheap they can be???
  • zrobotics 7y ago
    Wait, Berlin to Brussels for €9? Good lord, that is far too cheap. For example, the distance is roughly equivalent to Denver-Albuquerque. Kayak's cheapest quote is $119 one way, scheduled 1 month in advance. I knew flights in Europe were cheaper, but how is it possible to operate profitably at that price? Kayak shows $23 for Ryanair Berlin-Brussels. For comparison, I had a vehicle breakdown and needed to take an (awful) bus that distance in the US, and it cost far more than $23 (IIRC, it was ~$75 and took 18 hours).
    • egl2019 7y ago
      "How is it possible to operate profitably at that price?" It isn't: Air Berlin, Monarch, Primera, Small Planet, Azur, Cobalt, VLM, PrivatAir, Icelandic carrier WOW.
      • JAlexoid 7y ago
        They were run like traditional airlines, but traditional airlines can offset short haul losses with long haul profitability. Primera and WOW were in trouble because they couldn't offset losses on their long-haul with anything. I mean... I will not consider lower confort on transatlantic route, while sub 3 hour flights Ryanair is actually great.
    • cosmodisk 7y ago
      Ryanair,which is pretty successful business, is essentially a flying kiosk. The tickets are cheap but you pay for everything else.We had a company trip from London to Ibiza. Throughout the entire flight stewardess hasn't managed to wheel out the trolley with drinks,because there was a constant queue of 10-15 people buying alcohol. An average pub on Friday night doesn't sell as many drinks as they did on that flight. They also make tons of money from car rental,hotel, insurance referrals and many other upsells. No one in his own mind would otherwise think that running a plane that costs tens of millions of dollars with tickets worth €9 can be profitable.
    • tuesday20 7y ago
      I pay more than 9€ to go from NJ to NY in a greyhound bus!!! How is it so low? Even with all subsidies, kinda hard to believe
  • briandear 7y ago
    9 euros isn’t the actual cost: it’s a loss leader for selling you other stuff for the flight. Also, that 9 euros doesn’t include taxes. Conversely, why are train tickets so expensive? Perhaps trains are overtaxed, or maybe less efficient?
  • PeterStuer 7y ago
    Because these are extremely subsidised. Besides that, those airlines use every dark pattern in the book, so most people end up paying significantly more.
• the8472 7y ago
  > if not the most heavily taxed, activity In Germany consumer electricity prices have a comparable fraction of taxes and fees. So do salaries for high-paying jobs. If these levels are tolerable we can certainly go higher.
  • carlob 7y ago
    Gas prices in most countries in Europe have a higher fraction than this, same for cigarettes.
• namdnay 7y ago
  Most of these “taxes” aren’t really taxes in the sense of the tax on petrol or alcohol. They’re charges to cover the direct cost of flying, a bit like a toll road
  • nutjob2 7y ago
    Taxes pay for roads and socialized medicine, in the case of petrol/alcohol/cigarette taxes. Just because they're not direct or itemized, doesn't mean they don't apply in a similar way.
• bongobongo 7y ago
  You are mixing in airline surcharges with taxes.
• vojnovski 7y ago
  The taxes here amount to 8,33% of the total ticket price. The rest are actual charges that airports/government services levy for work done, as well as the famed fuel surcharge (usually recently noted as international/domestic surcharge) that airlines use as an wildcard addendum to the base fare of the ticket.
  • rayiner 7y ago
    If you exclude the airport fees and whatnot, you can’t claim that flights are heavily subsidized. The airport fees pay for all the capital infrastructure airlines use. (Trains also use capital infrastructure paid for by governments.)
• presto8 7y ago
  That international/domestic surcharge looks like an airline imposed charge. Not sure why they do it that way instead of having it in the ticket price. But the actual taxes paid on this ticket are a lot less when that surcharge isn’t included.
  • Zak 7y ago
    It appears that it's sometimes because it's easier in terms of internal accounting for airlines to adjust pricing that way. In other cases, some taxes may be a percentage of the fare, not the surcharge, allowing a lower all-inclusive price with the same amount of profit for the airline.
• ian0 7y ago
  $7 / passenger for Immigration, $5 for customs! Thats insane revenue, you would expect at least a good service from it.
  • JAlexoid 7y ago
    Do you think that US government is efficient?
• cosmodisk 7y ago
  How come one pays arrival tax in the US even though the plane is heading to Germany?
  • snappieT 7y ago
    Likely because the connection is within the US. There are no direct flights SFO to Berlin - only from New York, Philly and (surprisingly) Wilmington.
• JAlexoid 7y ago
  Actually. Taxes aren't even close to being the highest bit. The parts that are taxes are: APHIS User Fee USD 3.96 Immigration User Fee USD 7.00 Customs User Fee USD 5.77 United States International Departure Tax USD 18.60 United States International Arrival Tax USD 18.60 Passenger Civil Aviation Security Service Fee USD 5.60 Air Transport Tax USD 46.58 German Aviation Security Charge 19.15 The majority of the charges are airport services. But they typically just put everything with Taxes, so you think it's taxes.