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X-raying belongings and scanning for guns/knives and swabbing luggage for explosives is absolutely not security theatre and provides a non-zero chance of detect

X-raying belongings and scanning for guns/knives and swabbing luggage for explosives is absolutely not security theatre and provides a non-zero chance of detecting bad actors.

krageon 7y ago
This isn't a response to what I said, but if you do have something to contribute to that I would love to hear it. It would be very interesting.
ElFitz 7y ago
Sure. When it's done well. I once got on a plane with a folded tv antenna as my carry on (it was aluminum and I worried it would get bent if checked) Sure it was wrapped in luggage plastic film. But it still was a meter long tv antenna. And I clearly asked at every step. Another guy apparently accidentally went onto a plane with a loaded gun (https://abcnews.go.com/US/tsa-lets-loaded-guns-past-security-planes/story?id=17358872 https://abcnews.go.com/US/tsa-lets-loaded-guns-past-security...) And don't get me started on the security guys pretending to check backpacks at big public places.
joshocar 7y ago
I have kept a cheap pocket knife in my backpack for the last three years of traveling and TSA has yet to find it. I don't do anything special, it's just sitting my my bag, and I fly maybe 10-20 times a year, domestic and international. It's definitely theater to a certain extent. Is there a nonzero chance of catching a bad actor? Sure, but it's not much higher than zero. They did find and confiscate a 3/8" driver socket wrench though because it was longer than 6". Thank God they kept that off the plane...
- devtul 7y ago
  Funny to read that, I forgot my folding knife which has a reasonably big blade inside my backpack. Went through the security of 3 different countries, no one found it, was mortified myself to find that huge blade when I arrived.
- craftyguy 7y ago
  On the other hand, they are extremely good at finding bottles of water and taking those away. Either the TSA agents are always dehydrated, or they figured out that all terrorists drink water.
Terretta 7y ago
TSA’s tests show 95% failure rate. If it’s the non-zero chance vs. privacy trade off you’re interested in, strip everyone naked at TSA, and get your clothes back at baggage claim at the other end, that’s better odds. If you disagree with that, then you also don’t think safety beats privacy. You just have a different line.
- ryanmercer 7y ago
  >TSA’s tests show 95% failure rate. Yet in 2018 they - Discovered 4,239 firearms, 3,656 of which were loaded - Smoke grenades - An inert grenade - Lighter fluid - Fireworks - Five replica mortar shells https://www.tsa.gov/blog/2019/02/07/tsa-year-review-record-setting-2018 https://www.tsa.gov/blog/2019/02/07/tsa-year-review-record-s... In 2015 TSA seized knives from just ONE airport. 22,044 'dangerous items' total at U.S. airports that year. https://www.huffpost.com/entry/how-many-weapons-did-the_b_11306286 https://www.huffpost.com/entry/how-many-weapons-did-the_b_11... Yes stuff is going to slip through but uh, 3656 loaded firearms last year... I'd call that a victory. I'm very, very, pro 2a. I am very, very, very against people carrying loaded firearms on a thin aluminum can at altitude.
  - gowld 7y ago
    5% detection rate means: If I get shot 20 times, I won't be happy if my bulletproof vest stopped one of the bullets, and that happening 5000 times won't make me happier.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - nostrademons 7y ago
    That's not very much. There are close to a billion air travelers per year in the U.S. alone. If they discovered 22,000 dangerous items, that either means that only 0.0022% of passengers are carrying a dangerous item, or they're letting a large number of dangerous items through. It's perfectly consistent for them to have a 95% failure rate and still have < 0.05% of travelers actually carry a dangerous weapon. A more likely reason why we we haven't had any air incidents since 9/11 is that most people have little interest in blowing themselves up (let alone other people) at altitude.
NowThenGoodBad 7y ago
Just going to leave this here: https://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/news/2015/02/27/ex-delta-employee-indicted-in-firearms-trafficking.html https://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/news/2015/02/27/ex-delta... I'm an advocate for security screening. I'm even fine with a bag swab or pat down. I've been flying all 30 years of my life to many parts of the globe. What's going on in this article, if true, is not ok, it is not productive, and it is spreading a culture of fear and surveillance TO OUR OWN CITIZENS. We are not China, Russia, or any other country that would create such a situation, but we are letting it happen. I don't think people are against the accepted forms of surveillance you are mentioning, I think we're against the excessive stuff that's been going on.

X-raying belongings and scanning for guns/knives and swabbing luggage for explosives is absolutely not security theatre and provides a non-zero chance of detecting bad actors.

krageon 7y ago

This isn't a response to what I said, but if you do have something to contribute to that I would love to hear it. It would be very interesting.

ElFitz 7y ago

Sure. When it's done well. I once got on a plane with a folded tv antenna as my carry on (it was aluminum and I worried it would get bent if checked) Sure it was wrapped in luggage plastic film. But it still was a meter long tv antenna. And I clearly asked at every step. Another guy apparently accidentally went onto a plane with a loaded gun (https://abcnews.go.com/US/tsa-lets-loaded-guns-past-security-planes/story?id=17358872 https://abcnews.go.com/US/tsa-lets-loaded-guns-past-security...) And don't get me started on the security guys pretending to check backpacks at big public places.

joshocar 7y ago

I have kept a cheap pocket knife in my backpack for the last three years of traveling and TSA has yet to find it. I don't do anything special, it's just sitting my my bag, and I fly maybe 10-20 times a year, domestic and international. It's definitely theater to a certain extent. Is there a nonzero chance of catching a bad actor? Sure, but it's not much higher than zero. They did find and confiscate a 3/8" driver socket wrench though because it was longer than 6". Thank God they kept that off the plane...

devtul 7y ago
Funny to read that, I forgot my folding knife which has a reasonably big blade inside my backpack. Went through the security of 3 different countries, no one found it, was mortified myself to find that huge blade when I arrived.
craftyguy 7y ago
On the other hand, they are extremely good at finding bottles of water and taking those away. Either the TSA agents are always dehydrated, or they figured out that all terrorists drink water.

Terretta 7y ago

TSA’s tests show 95% failure rate. If it’s the non-zero chance vs. privacy trade off you’re interested in, strip everyone naked at TSA, and get your clothes back at baggage claim at the other end, that’s better odds. If you disagree with that, then you also don’t think safety beats privacy. You just have a different line.

ryanmercer 7y ago
>TSA’s tests show 95% failure rate. Yet in 2018 they - Discovered 4,239 firearms, 3,656 of which were loaded - Smoke grenades - An inert grenade - Lighter fluid - Fireworks - Five replica mortar shells https://www.tsa.gov/blog/2019/02/07/tsa-year-review-record-setting-2018 https://www.tsa.gov/blog/2019/02/07/tsa-year-review-record-s... In 2015 TSA seized knives from just ONE airport. 22,044 'dangerous items' total at U.S. airports that year. https://www.huffpost.com/entry/how-many-weapons-did-the_b_11306286 https://www.huffpost.com/entry/how-many-weapons-did-the_b_11... Yes stuff is going to slip through but uh, 3656 loaded firearms last year... I'd call that a victory. I'm very, very, pro 2a. I am very, very, very against people carrying loaded firearms on a thin aluminum can at altitude.
- gowld 7y ago
  5% detection rate means: If I get shot 20 times, I won't be happy if my bulletproof vest stopped one of the bullets, and that happening 5000 times won't make me happier.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- nostrademons 7y ago
  That's not very much. There are close to a billion air travelers per year in the U.S. alone. If they discovered 22,000 dangerous items, that either means that only 0.0022% of passengers are carrying a dangerous item, or they're letting a large number of dangerous items through. It's perfectly consistent for them to have a 95% failure rate and still have < 0.05% of travelers actually carry a dangerous weapon. A more likely reason why we we haven't had any air incidents since 9/11 is that most people have little interest in blowing themselves up (let alone other people) at altitude.

NowThenGoodBad 7y ago

Just going to leave this here: https://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/news/2015/02/27/ex-delta-employee-indicted-in-firearms-trafficking.html https://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/news/2015/02/27/ex-delta... I'm an advocate for security screening. I'm even fine with a bag swab or pat down. I've been flying all 30 years of my life to many parts of the globe. What's going on in this article, if true, is not ok, it is not productive, and it is spreading a culture of fear and surveillance TO OUR OWN CITIZENS. We are not China, Russia, or any other country that would create such a situation, but we are letting it happen. I don't think people are against the accepted forms of surveillance you are mentioning, I think we're against the excessive stuff that's been going on.