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The Scene: Pirates Ripping Content from Amazon and Netflix
- Buge 7y ago>After starting with a large raw file, the finalized version ready for release is around 30% smaller, around 7GB for a 1080p file. Huh? Are they recompressing it? How else would it shrink? If they're recompressing it, why don't they just use a capture card and avoid the hassle of reverse engineering stuff?
- anateus 7y agoThe encrypted file can be bigger than the decrypted version for a bunch of different reasons, that's like what's going on here.
- Buge 7y agoNetflix serves a tremendous amount of video, a large percent of total internet bandwidth. They spend a lot of time optimizing their video compression, which can be seen from their tech blog, and papers they publish on video compression techniques. There's no reason for an encrypted file to be more than 100 bytes larger than the unencrypted file. I highly doubt Netflix is introducing a 30% overhead for no reason.
- Ace17 7y ago> There's no reason for an encrypted file to be more than 100 bytes larger than the unencrypted file. Video engineer currently implementing MPEG Common Encryption here: Actually, there is. MPEG CENC (Common Encryption) uses AES CTR and requires conveying one initialization vector for each audio/video frame. Those are generally 16-byte long. To make the matter (a little) worse, MPEG CENC adds signalization to the file, to specify which parts of the streams are encrypted or not: indeed, for remux-without-decrypt reasons, each video frame must have its headers in cleartext. In fine, you get some dozen of bytes of overhead per audio/video frame ; do the math. Of course, this overhead remains negligible and could by no means explain a 30% size reduction when decrypting.
- pavs 7y agoRe-encoding with lower bitrate. 99% of the people won't be able to tell the difference.
- Buge 7y agoYes, but then why do they need to reverse engineer anything? Can't they use a capture card?
- gsich 7y agoThey can, it's called "webrip" then (also in the article). Creates an obvious problem though.
- Slartie 7y agoWhat is this "obvious problem"? Aside from the quality loss due to re-encoding - which should be identical to the loss encountered when capturing digital video and audio output, assuming the capture is done correctly - I fail to see anything "obvious".
- vijayr02 7y agoI assume it's per stream identifiable information added by the stream provider, making the identity of the ripper traceable
- vijayr02 7y agoSorry - clearly wasn't thinking straight - their alternative approach has this same issue (and having now read the article! - They do plan around this)
- noodlesUK 7y agoPresumably this is still present in the encoded stream they decrypt. I believe the way around this is by prepaid accounts etc and throwaway emails. High end piracy like this is big business. Correct me if I’m wrong about the IDs in the stream though. Edit: I just saw parents reply. It took a while to type this out on my phone :/
- gsich 7y agoI remember that in DVB-S (maybe T/C too?) streams there is a constant bitrate, with additional empty packets (PID 8191 in MPEG-TS). Removing those usually results in a ~30% reduction. But I can't imagine that Netflix or Amazon uses such null bytes.
- dmitriid 7y agoThanks to content owners/distributors we’ll see a resurgence in piracy. After Fox, Disney et al pulled content from Netflix, coupled with regional restrictions, there’s literally nothing to watch on Netflix in Sweden except Netflix’s own original content. Hulu isn’t available outside of US. HBO is just as bad as Netflix outside the US. Even iTunes Store is subject to regional restrictions (but the selection yhere is still much larger)
- bubblethink 7y ago>we’ll see a resurgence in piracy I am not so sure about that. It will always exist, but it is getting increasingly difficult to break DRM. So we may have long periods where the rips are inferior compared to the source (i.e., transcodes via capping). All the new 4K stuff is already quite difficult due to SGX/other hardware enclaves. So it's not a question of just time/dedication to reverse engineer a blob.
- praptak 7y agoAn inferior rip beats 4k "not available in your country". Also, hardware does get hacked too.
- vectorEQ 7y agoindeed, sgx is poor and broken like most of intel 'security' featurs :D
- aneutron 7y agoI would argue that it IS a question of time and dedication. When life gives you lemons you JTAG those keys out the enclave if you have to. Don't worry, life always finds a way.
- bubblethink 7y ago>JTAG those keys out the enclave I'm not so optimistic. That is precisely the threat model. That is not to say that it is impossible. Side channel exfiltration from stuff like SGX has been shown, but that's a different game really.
- peterburkimsher 7y agoThe article says that "Subtitle files... are not encrypted". Netflix subtitles are really interesting to me, because they're aligned in different languages. A lot of unofficial SRT files have different timestamps. The reason is that I'm trying to collect data for learning languages, especially Chinese. Kind of like VoiceTube [1] and Youglish [2] are doing for English. So far it's only for personal use, not a revenue-taking company. I tried investigating a Netflix stream, but the subtitles weren't plain text! They were distributed as PNG files [3]. Does anyone have more information about this? Do the pirates really OCR the subtitles for their MKV files? (I doubt it). Is there another way to get the plain text? Contact me directly if you're afraid to comment publicly. [1] https://www.voicetube.com/ https://www.voicetube.com/ [2] https://youglish.com/ https://youglish.com/ [3] https://www.slideshare.net/RohitPuri23/timed-text-at-netflix-58522643 https://www.slideshare.net/RohitPuri23/timed-text-at-netflix...
- invokestatic 7y agoI wonder if Netflix’s use of image subtitles is a carryover of how subtitles work on DVDs — images as well.
- slhck 7y agoIt's not a carry-over from their DVD business. It's a consequence of how they choose to stream. My assumption is that image-based subtitles are more compatible across a range of devices and clients, as you get to choose how they look beforehand. You can definitely send subtitles as raw text and metadata – it's what they do on iOS devices IIRC, since you can change the subtitle appearance on the client. Also, their ingest works with TTML (a text-based format): https://partnerhelp.netflixstudios.com/hc/en-us/articles/215758617-Timed-Text-Style-Guide-General-Requirements https://partnerhelp.netflixstudios.com/hc/en-us/articles/215... – this is a fairly widely used standard.
- denkmoon 7y ago>Do the pirates really OCR the subtitles for their MKV files? Yes. At least as far as I have seen, which is not scene level but in private tracker discussion forums. OCR-ing digital text is pretty accurate afaik.
- esistgut 7y agoI own subscriptions for both Netflix and Prime Video and (try to) use them most of the times from my Linux desktop on a 21:9 monitor. I have to force proper full hd resolution using a browser extension but can't find a way to fix aspect ratio / black bars problems. Just yesterday I tried to watch the third season of Stranger Things and I had black bars on all the 4 sides. After boring my SO for about 10 minutes messing around with extensions I just fired up qBittorrent and fixed the problem in 2 seconds using the autocrop feature in mpc. I end up the torrent way so often that I'm starting to doubt the reasons that push me to support these platforms and their broken features. Is the desktop userbase a niche so small they can afford to ignore?
- noodlesUK 7y ago^This On two of the three 4K monitors I own, I have no way of watching any films or TV shows at that resolution whatsoever. There is no mainstream content at all that can be consumed on Linux at 4K through any legitimate service that I know of. This is in spite of me subscribing to a ‘4K’ Netflix service, owning multiple movies in 4K in various forms etc. The only device that supports 4K legitimately is my Apple TV, which I bought simply to stream Netflix at native resolution. Now that I have it, I often find myself renting films on it, but the only options there are for watching on my laptop are piracy. And honestly, piracy is higher quality and a better UI (being able to download in advance, the press play with no worries about buffering).
- valzam 7y agoHow much of their userbase do you think uses - Linux Desktop - 21:9 monitor ? If you guys are cracking one 10th of a percentile I would be surprised. I also use netflix on linux desktop (regular monitor though) but I cannot pretend that they should have to care about such a tiny portion of their overall userbase.
- sidkhanooja 7y agoTangential, but I've recently noticed that due to huge fragmentation in the streaming industry (Netflix, PrimeVideo, Hulu, Disney+ et al.), I'm only using two - Netflix and PrimeVideo, and a third torrent streaming service (PopcornTime) when I can't find a specific movie/TV series. I prefer to use the third option as few as possible, but I find myself having to use it more and more often as the years go by - geolocked content, huge swathes of content being removed on the whims of providers (The Office comes to mind), and 'originals' that are beyond even the so-bad-it's-good category that cannot even begin to fill the void left by the good content leaving. I cannot ever see myself subscribing to a plethora of services - the best case is subscribing to a service when it's absolutely necessary (HBO/Hotstar) and then unsubscribing when you're done, which is not at all conducive to fulfilling long-term revenue plans of such services. So what is the endgame of such services? Is it simply to build a huge catalog of content that you'll mindlessly devour whenever you're bored? Or something else?
- mysterydip 7y agoOne more frustration to add to your list: only having x seasons of a show available instead of all y.
- arethuza 7y agoThat 'feature' of Amazon's service really annoys me as well - presumably it's to make it look like they have far more content available than they actually have?
- mgoetzke 7y agoor splitting up the seasons in the UI like Amazon does it (the amazon UX is quite dismal anyway)
- mysterydip 7y agoThey also have interlaced two seasons of some shows together (noticed this on a couple kids shows for my daughter). So it would go season 2 ep 1, season 3 ep 1, 2-2, 3-2, etc. In general it wouldn't matter for a kids show that doesn't have a continual storyline, but when you only pay for season 2, it then stops at the end of each episode instead of continuing on automatically, and you have to go back to the UI and skip one.
- lostgame 7y agoI live in Canada, where regional laws force the majority of even casual users into piracy. One could not even subscribe to enough number of services to get the amount of content Netflix has in the USA alone. This may be an exaggeration, but honestly, it's been this way for years. I've honestly put a lot of effort into seeking out legal sources for material here in Toronto, and had little luck in certain cases I easily find through a proxy. It's literally self-deprecating behaviour.
- air7 7y agoHow do these pirates make money? It seems like so much work is/has gone into their operations that it can't just be for karma points. Edit: I'm referring to the content ripping groups. Apart from the technical and legal challenges depicted in the article, they need to seed their files which (must be) very costly. Also, content is released consistently and extremely quickly. The common answer is that the motivation is non-monetary: Fun, community service, group pride etc. But I find that hard to believe entirely. The product is just too polished, subjectively resembeing in quality a revenue generating operation rather than a(n illegal) side hobby.
- madez 7y agoSome people do things for other merits besides money.
- winternett 7y agoYeah... Bitcoin mining? :P
- vectorEQ 7y agoads (and malware)
- oauea 7y agoBy having profitable day jobs, usually.
- krageon 7y agoWhy does everything have to be about money? Some people do things because it is fun and rewarding. I'd go so far as to say that if you are capable enough to consistently pirate things you are capable enough to hold a well-paying full-time job.
- faissaloo 7y ago>How do these pirates make money? It’s not about money… it’s about sending a message.
- Tactic 7y ago
- jankor 7y agoThe big inconvenience of encrypted netflix content is that I cannot run it through madvr for better upscale 1080p->4k, the paradox is that a free torrent content might in the end take less size and look better. And let's not forget about some phones (poco f1) where netflix only allows lq because of missing Widevine L1.
- z3phyr 7y ago"The Scene" here also have a close relationship with the Demoscene, CrackmeScene and KeygenScene. These groups work/compete on challenging technical problems involving extreme and artistic programming. Almost all of these groups work with similar (and sometimes closely shared) custom compression, graphics, debug and platform code.
- mistat 7y agoDid anyone watch the WebTV series called "The Scene" ? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Scene_(miniseries) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Scene_(miniseries) https://youtu.be/xIs_5nfJKu4 https://youtu.be/xIs_5nfJKu4
- IronBacon 7y agoSo, on PC hardware, outside of Windos and Macos, Widevine it's the only option available and it's capped at 720p, but the same DRM is used on Android and it's OK to stream at 1080p... P.S. on Netflix, I should verify on Amazon Prime Edit: after posting I recalled a plugin for Chrome/Firefox that forced 1080p playback on Netflix, the github page has the details https://github.com/truedread/netflix-1080p https://github.com/truedread/netflix-1080p
- mensetmanusman 7y agoTangentially related to the concern with platforms losing content and fragmenting: check your local library for their DVD library :)
- acomjean 7y agoI was shocked (in a good way) at the number of dvds/blul rays the library in my city has. No wonder all the video rental stores are gone.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]