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The amazing things is that this guy -- an obvious fraud and conman -- has been invited to numerous high-level Bitcoin/Blockchain conferences as a speaker. It a

The amazing things is that this guy -- an obvious fraud and conman -- has been invited to numerous high-level Bitcoin/Blockchain conferences as a speaker. It always stuns me how relatively few people are able to spot frauds (although it explains a lot about our current political situation). I'm guessing 40-50% of the population is susceptible to this kind of trickery.

revscat 7y ago
It amazes me that a percentage of your percentage does so because to call out liars would be impolite and lead to discomfort.
- nullc 7y ago
  Calling out fraudsters also gets you attacked and harassed and there is essentially nothing you can do to stop it.
  - BubRoss 7y ago
    Generally you only get attacked by those fraudsters.
    - astronautjones 7y ago
      or their entire personality cult/political party
    - dboreham 7y ago
      Hmm...go back and look at how the Theranos debacle played out.
    - Ididntdothis 7y ago
      Be careful. The people who called out Enron, Theranos, the NSA before Snowden or the rationale for the Iraq invasion often paid a big price.
  - gerikson 7y ago
    Craig Wright in particular is suing people in the UK for libel for stating that he is not Satoshi.[1] Being sued for libel in the UK is no joke. [1] https://decrypt.co/6520/peter-mccormack https://decrypt.co/6520/peter-mccormack
- jnbiche 7y ago
  I don't even expect people to call out fraudsters. But I do wish they would quit promoting them, or minimizing how much they are indeed fraudsters ("well, maybe he's not been totally honest about that, but what about...").
BubRoss 7y ago
Part of it has been the tribalism of him going against the obvious weasels that ousted the original Bitcoin team to keep the blocksize low, the transaction fees high and get VC funding for their company that they would market by saying it was the 'people that were in charge of bitcoin' Some of the people who hated those weasels decided that Craig Wright must be great since he says he is against the same people. Instead of everyone rolling their eyes and fighting an OBVIOUS con man interested in VC funding and patents some people thought everyone calling him a con man must be on the 'other side'. Edit: If you think something is off, use your words. I can back up everything I've said here.
- jnbiche 7y ago
  > Some of the people who hated those weasels decided that Craig Wright must be great since he says he is against the same people. Instead of everyone rolling their eyes and fighting an OBVIOUS con man interested in VC funding and patents some people thought everyone calling him a con man must be on the 'other side'. That's an interesting summary of the situation, with parallels again to our current political situation.
  - TeMPOraL 7y ago
    As 'Eliezer summed it up perfectly: "Politics is an extension of war by other means. Arguments are soldiers. Once you know which side you’re on, you must support all arguments of that side, and attack all arguments that appear to favor the enemy side; otherwise it’s like stabbing your soldiers in the back—providing aid and comfort to the enemy. People who would be level-headed about evenhandedly weighing all sides of an issue in their professional life as scientists, can suddenly turn into slogan-chanting zombies when there’s a Blue or Green position on an issue." From: https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/9weLK2AJ9JEt2Tt8f/politics-is-the-mind-killer https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/9weLK2AJ9JEt2Tt8f/politics-i....
- keymone 7y ago
  lets see how much you can really back up > him going against the obvious weasels A weasel is a mammal of the genus Mustela of the family Mustelidae. Bitcoin Core team afaik consists of humans. > ousted the original Bitcoin team satoshi handed over maintenance to gavin, gavin handed over maintenance to wladimir, wladimir is a contributor since 2011 and still is the maintainer of the project. plenty of contributors from early days are still active or support bitcoin core team. very few agree with nonsense claimed by CSW. so who exactly do you mean when you say "original Bitcoin team"? > to keep the blocksize low, the transaction fees high you're claiming conspiracy with specific intention - do you have any proof or evidence of such conspiracy? what power over bitcoin network and specifically miners (who are free to mine on any bitcoin fork they consider "the real bitcoin") did they have? > and get VC funding for their company that they would market by saying it was the 'people that were in charge of bitcoin' you've decided to arbitrarily link two events for no good reason. this is something conspiracists often do. there were plenty of companies getting funded by VCs in cryptocurrency space during that time, why specifically that company matters more than others? what power over bitcoin do they have? few devs are contributors - so what? there are other companies that also have devs contributing to bitcoin core.
nordsieck 7y ago
> It always stuns me how relatively few people are able to spot frauds (although it explains a lot about our current political situation). I'm guessing 40-50% of the population is susceptible to this kind of trickery. It seems very likely to me that frauds and those who can detect them are locked in an evolutionary arms race. If that is the case, it would have to be true that there is a substantial number of people who can't detect frauds.
Waterluvian 7y ago
This is a feature, not a bug. Healthy communities are comprised of people who are trusting and permissive by default. The cost is that on occasion these communities will be exploited. Personally I think it's a very low price to pay for all its benefits.
- dunkelheit 7y ago
  One of the commandments of this particular community is Doing Your Own Research. Of course saying that you did your research is much easier than actually doing it so here goes.
- jnbiche 7y ago
  > This is a feature, not a bug....Healthy communities are comprised of people who are trusting and permissive by default. It's entirely possible to find a happy medium. You can be trusting without being totally naive about individuals with bad intentions.
  - Waterluvian 7y ago
    It's only that your community evolves to be less trusting because unfortunately it has to. So the happy medium is really just a sacrifice of a good trait for a less good one only because you have to.
  - pdpi 7y ago
    Anywhere you fall on this naivety/acceptance continuum, I can both show you a fraudster you didn’t detect that you should have, and a serious speaker you blocked but shouldn’t. In hindsight it’s always easy to say what the right outcome should have been, but, in Wright’s case, he has enough legitimate credentials that it’s hard to argue that we shouldn’t at least hear him out.
    - Kaveren 7y ago
      wright is a complete con man with absolutely no credibility. someone like satoshi would never, ever, ever reveal their identity publicly. this is the most obvious thing, and anyone who thinks this is up for debate is gullible. his credentials are lacking and also completely irrelevant.
nostrademons 7y ago
It's also possible that the organizers of the conference know (or suspect) that he's a fraud, but invite him anyway because they know the controversy will generate buzz and attention around their conference, increasing its attendance.
- jnbiche 7y ago
  That's entirely possible, and such an approach makes me despair even more of the Bitcoin community (and why I left it long ago).
  - LowLevelHacker 7y ago
    You left Bitcoin because they care TOO much about getting media attention?
Lucadg 7y ago
I guess it has to do with the fact that when organizing a conference many optimize for speakers attracting crowds rather than content.
- garmaine 7y ago
  On the other hand, most bitcoin devs I know would specifically avoid a conference that made that mistake.
  - Lucadg 7y ago
    True. And that's about attendees quality which is another metric I don't think they optimize for in general. They need to fill the halls first of all.
- DonHopkins 7y ago
  People relate to BitCoin conferences more like ComicCon.
danaos 7y ago
His home was actually raided by Australian police right after news[1] broke that he may be Satoshi Nakamoto. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/dec/09/bitcoin-founder-craig-wrights-home-raided-by-australian-police https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/dec/09/bitcoin-f...
- threwawasy1228 7y ago
  This says more about the stupidity and uselessness of the police than it says about whether he is Nakamoto or not.
- geekpowa 7y ago
  You trying to link his claim to being raided? He was raided because he is a tax cheat who has been under investigation for years for multiple unrelated tax compliance events. * edit. Typo/grammar.
spilk 7y ago
especially when proving authorship of bitcoin would be a simple matter for the actual Satoshi - just sign a message with the same key as the recipient of the genesis block. He attempted to do this and failed in a stunningly obvious way.
tim333 7y ago
I listened to him at a blockchain conference and there is a certain freak show curiosity to it as there is to much in the blockchain space.
CogitoCogito 7y ago
I would say that 100% of people are susceptible 40-50% of the time. Okay some more than others, but for no one the number is 0. It's easier to understand the phenomenon after we accept it affects us all to some degree.
api 7y ago
Most people are mostly honest and assume others are the same. They are not really expecting someone who is radically and baldly dishonest and so they get taken aback. I remember my first encounter with a group of really dishonest people. It was deeply shocking. When I grasped just how much lying was happening and the magnitude of it it took me a while to wrap my mind around it. The folks I encountered had built entire webs of massive lies. I now realize they were small time hucksters compared with some of the cons that are out there.

revscat 7y ago

It amazes me that a percentage of your percentage does so because to call out liars would be impolite and lead to discomfort.

nullc 7y ago
Calling out fraudsters also gets you attacked and harassed and there is essentially nothing you can do to stop it.
- BubRoss 7y ago
  Generally you only get attacked by those fraudsters.
  - astronautjones 7y ago
    or their entire personality cult/political party
  - dboreham 7y ago
    Hmm...go back and look at how the Theranos debacle played out.
  - Ididntdothis 7y ago
    Be careful. The people who called out Enron, Theranos, the NSA before Snowden or the rationale for the Iraq invasion often paid a big price.
- gerikson 7y ago
  Craig Wright in particular is suing people in the UK for libel for stating that he is not Satoshi.[1] Being sued for libel in the UK is no joke. [1] https://decrypt.co/6520/peter-mccormack https://decrypt.co/6520/peter-mccormack
jnbiche 7y ago
I don't even expect people to call out fraudsters. But I do wish they would quit promoting them, or minimizing how much they are indeed fraudsters ("well, maybe he's not been totally honest about that, but what about...").

BubRoss 7y ago

Part of it has been the tribalism of him going against the obvious weasels that ousted the original Bitcoin team to keep the blocksize low, the transaction fees high and get VC funding for their company that they would market by saying it was the 'people that were in charge of bitcoin' Some of the people who hated those weasels decided that Craig Wright must be great since he says he is against the same people. Instead of everyone rolling their eyes and fighting an OBVIOUS con man interested in VC funding and patents some people thought everyone calling him a con man must be on the 'other side'. Edit: If you think something is off, use your words. I can back up everything I've said here.

jnbiche 7y ago
> Some of the people who hated those weasels decided that Craig Wright must be great since he says he is against the same people. Instead of everyone rolling their eyes and fighting an OBVIOUS con man interested in VC funding and patents some people thought everyone calling him a con man must be on the 'other side'. That's an interesting summary of the situation, with parallels again to our current political situation.
- TeMPOraL 7y ago
  As 'Eliezer summed it up perfectly: "Politics is an extension of war by other means. Arguments are soldiers. Once you know which side you’re on, you must support all arguments of that side, and attack all arguments that appear to favor the enemy side; otherwise it’s like stabbing your soldiers in the back—providing aid and comfort to the enemy. People who would be level-headed about evenhandedly weighing all sides of an issue in their professional life as scientists, can suddenly turn into slogan-chanting zombies when there’s a Blue or Green position on an issue." From: https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/9weLK2AJ9JEt2Tt8f/politics-is-the-mind-killer https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/9weLK2AJ9JEt2Tt8f/politics-i....
keymone 7y ago
lets see how much you can really back up > him going against the obvious weasels A weasel is a mammal of the genus Mustela of the family Mustelidae. Bitcoin Core team afaik consists of humans. > ousted the original Bitcoin team satoshi handed over maintenance to gavin, gavin handed over maintenance to wladimir, wladimir is a contributor since 2011 and still is the maintainer of the project. plenty of contributors from early days are still active or support bitcoin core team. very few agree with nonsense claimed by CSW. so who exactly do you mean when you say "original Bitcoin team"? > to keep the blocksize low, the transaction fees high you're claiming conspiracy with specific intention - do you have any proof or evidence of such conspiracy? what power over bitcoin network and specifically miners (who are free to mine on any bitcoin fork they consider "the real bitcoin") did they have? > and get VC funding for their company that they would market by saying it was the 'people that were in charge of bitcoin' you've decided to arbitrarily link two events for no good reason. this is something conspiracists often do. there were plenty of companies getting funded by VCs in cryptocurrency space during that time, why specifically that company matters more than others? what power over bitcoin do they have? few devs are contributors - so what? there are other companies that also have devs contributing to bitcoin core.

nordsieck 7y ago

> It always stuns me how relatively few people are able to spot frauds (although it explains a lot about our current political situation). I'm guessing 40-50% of the population is susceptible to this kind of trickery. It seems very likely to me that frauds and those who can detect them are locked in an evolutionary arms race. If that is the case, it would have to be true that there is a substantial number of people who can't detect frauds.

Waterluvian 7y ago

This is a feature, not a bug. Healthy communities are comprised of people who are trusting and permissive by default. The cost is that on occasion these communities will be exploited. Personally I think it's a very low price to pay for all its benefits.

dunkelheit 7y ago
One of the commandments of this particular community is Doing Your Own Research. Of course saying that you did your research is much easier than actually doing it so here goes.
jnbiche 7y ago
> This is a feature, not a bug....Healthy communities are comprised of people who are trusting and permissive by default. It's entirely possible to find a happy medium. You can be trusting without being totally naive about individuals with bad intentions.
- Waterluvian 7y ago
  It's only that your community evolves to be less trusting because unfortunately it has to. So the happy medium is really just a sacrifice of a good trait for a less good one only because you have to.
- pdpi 7y ago
  Anywhere you fall on this naivety/acceptance continuum, I can both show you a fraudster you didn’t detect that you should have, and a serious speaker you blocked but shouldn’t. In hindsight it’s always easy to say what the right outcome should have been, but, in Wright’s case, he has enough legitimate credentials that it’s hard to argue that we shouldn’t at least hear him out.
  - Kaveren 7y ago
    wright is a complete con man with absolutely no credibility. someone like satoshi would never, ever, ever reveal their identity publicly. this is the most obvious thing, and anyone who thinks this is up for debate is gullible. his credentials are lacking and also completely irrelevant.

nostrademons 7y ago

It's also possible that the organizers of the conference know (or suspect) that he's a fraud, but invite him anyway because they know the controversy will generate buzz and attention around their conference, increasing its attendance.

jnbiche 7y ago
That's entirely possible, and such an approach makes me despair even more of the Bitcoin community (and why I left it long ago).
- LowLevelHacker 7y ago
  You left Bitcoin because they care TOO much about getting media attention?

Lucadg 7y ago

I guess it has to do with the fact that when organizing a conference many optimize for speakers attracting crowds rather than content.

garmaine 7y ago
On the other hand, most bitcoin devs I know would specifically avoid a conference that made that mistake.
- Lucadg 7y ago
  True. And that's about attendees quality which is another metric I don't think they optimize for in general. They need to fill the halls first of all.
DonHopkins 7y ago
People relate to BitCoin conferences more like ComicCon.

danaos 7y ago

His home was actually raided by Australian police right after news[1] broke that he may be Satoshi Nakamoto. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/dec/09/bitcoin-founder-craig-wrights-home-raided-by-australian-police https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/dec/09/bitcoin-f...

threwawasy1228 7y ago
This says more about the stupidity and uselessness of the police than it says about whether he is Nakamoto or not.
geekpowa 7y ago
You trying to link his claim to being raided? He was raided because he is a tax cheat who has been under investigation for years for multiple unrelated tax compliance events. * edit. Typo/grammar.

spilk 7y ago

especially when proving authorship of bitcoin would be a simple matter for the actual Satoshi - just sign a message with the same key as the recipient of the genesis block. He attempted to do this and failed in a stunningly obvious way.

tim333 7y ago

I listened to him at a blockchain conference and there is a certain freak show curiosity to it as there is to much in the blockchain space.

CogitoCogito 7y ago

I would say that 100% of people are susceptible 40-50% of the time. Okay some more than others, but for no one the number is 0. It's easier to understand the phenomenon after we accept it affects us all to some degree.

api 7y ago

Most people are mostly honest and assume others are the same. They are not really expecting someone who is radically and baldly dishonest and so they get taken aback. I remember my first encounter with a group of really dishonest people. It was deeply shocking. When I grasped just how much lying was happening and the magnitude of it it took me a while to wrap my mind around it. The folks I encountered had built entire webs of massive lies. I now realize they were small time hucksters compared with some of the cons that are out there.