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There has been a cultural war inside of BMW for quite a while. Klaus Fröhlich, a board member and executive at BMW actually called EVS overhyped the same week t

There has been a cultural war inside of BMW for quite a while. Klaus Fröhlich, a board member and executive at BMW actually called EVS overhyped the same week that BMW unveiled their current planning around EVs. Most reviews have the Tesla Model 3 performance outperforming the similarly priced M3. Many have the LR Tesla model 3 as competitive to sometimes beating the BMW 3 series. The sales success at Tesla has come partially at the cost of BMW car sales.

Gibbon1 7y ago
I vaguely remember seeing market share numbers about 5 years ago and it looked like Tesla was clawing away a lot of it's market share in the US from BMW. I think the US market is only a smaller but profitable part of BMW's business. But that should have been worrying.
- adventured 7y ago
  > I think the US market is only a smaller but profitable part of BMW's business. The US is the second largest single market for BMWs, behind China (China buys nearly twice as many BMWs as the US market now). It's about 14% of their total group unit volume (~350k out of ~2.5m). It's a similar number for Mercedes. For Porsche the US is about 20% of their sales. In 1995 they sold 95,000 BMWs in the US. By 2007 that was up to 293,000. They haven't seen a huge collapse in units sold in the US (10%-12% or so), however I think the slide backwards and continued rise of Tesla is obviously very concerning as a threat. They know they have to do something right now.
CPLX 7y ago
They may be competitive in some performance metrics, which of course does matter, but Teslas aren’t even remotely in the same league when it comes to fit and finish. Teslas feel cheap and poorly made. The offerings have some pretty stark differences.
- sabareesh 7y ago
  I see people online complain about fit and finish, but not sure the credibility of people like you. I own a model 3 and there is 0 issues, if you go and do a test drive then there is 80 % chance you will end up buying it if you are in the market
  - setpatchaddress 7y ago
    I’ve heard about fit and finish issues from multiple Model 3 owners. They all like the car, very few are impressed with the company. I was utterly unimpressed on my Model 3 test drive. A $50,000 car should ride better. The driving experience was nothing special. The few tactile controls felt like cheap toy plastic. I did like the UI, sort of. Put it on an overlay on the windshield in front of the driver and I think you have something close to the future. I liked the concept of the customizable, simple controls on the steering wheel — the execution is unpleasant. And yeah, you can take off quickly and go quickly. So what? Musk needs to sit in a mid-2000’s Volkswagen Passat for an hour or so.
  - prepend 7y ago
    When I say fit and finish, I mean that the interior of the model 3 is more similar to a Hyundai or Toyota than a luxury car. I don’t think it’s about stuff breaking, it’s about cheap seats and not high quality plastic. Perfectly fine, but tough when you’re used to a Mercedes or Lexus. It reminds me of a civic interior with a giant iPad. This works for lots of people, but if they could get better interiors they would do much better against luxury. But they seem to be doing pretty well against bmw as is.
  - CPLX 7y ago
    I’ve owned three BMW 3-Series sedans in a row. I was very very tempted by Tesla, until I actually drove one. It feels like a Honda Civic. Like a cheap downmarket economy car. Sure it has acceleration but so does a BMW more than you’ll ever need too. The experience is obviously disappointing if you’re used to German luxury cars. The point being, that if the German luxury brands get the hang of the electric thing Tesla’s going to be in severe danger.
dmode 7y ago
Tesla has killed one of BMWs biggest market - California. The number of Model 3s on the road far surpasses newer 3 series and this can only be the canary in coal mine. All Tesla needs to do is build out a similar Supercharger infrastructure in other big cities like we have in Bay Area and Los Angeles and it is going to be very tough for BMW to compete.
- Diederich 7y ago
  I agree with the main point of your comment. > All Tesla needs to do is build out a similar Supercharger infrastructure in other big cities like we have in Bay Area and Los Angeles I haven't looked in a while, so I checked out the Supercharger map for New York, DC, Chicago and Dallas, and was pretty surprised at how many superchargers are available already, with even more on the way.
  - HeadsUpHigh 7y ago
    They are expanding their network worldwide at an incredible pace.
    - jvagner 7y ago
      Tesla 3s are all over in Reno, and we have exactly one supercharger. Which is weird, because we now have a Tesla dealership (South Reno) and the Gigafactory is just down the road.
      - Diederich 7y ago
        Ah, that's pretty sparse. I did note that another near the center of town is scheduled to be open this year. There should be more though.
vl 7y ago
I’m going to buy Model 3 Performance, but I’m still going to keep my M3, because, guess what, unlike gas stations, there are no supercharges next to the racetracks. So going for a track day in Model 3 is a really tricky proposition.

Gibbon1 7y ago

I vaguely remember seeing market share numbers about 5 years ago and it looked like Tesla was clawing away a lot of it's market share in the US from BMW. I think the US market is only a smaller but profitable part of BMW's business. But that should have been worrying.

adventured 7y ago
> I think the US market is only a smaller but profitable part of BMW's business. The US is the second largest single market for BMWs, behind China (China buys nearly twice as many BMWs as the US market now). It's about 14% of their total group unit volume (~350k out of ~2.5m). It's a similar number for Mercedes. For Porsche the US is about 20% of their sales. In 1995 they sold 95,000 BMWs in the US. By 2007 that was up to 293,000. They haven't seen a huge collapse in units sold in the US (10%-12% or so), however I think the slide backwards and continued rise of Tesla is obviously very concerning as a threat. They know they have to do something right now.

CPLX 7y ago

They may be competitive in some performance metrics, which of course does matter, but Teslas aren’t even remotely in the same league when it comes to fit and finish. Teslas feel cheap and poorly made. The offerings have some pretty stark differences.

sabareesh 7y ago
I see people online complain about fit and finish, but not sure the credibility of people like you. I own a model 3 and there is 0 issues, if you go and do a test drive then there is 80 % chance you will end up buying it if you are in the market
- setpatchaddress 7y ago
  I’ve heard about fit and finish issues from multiple Model 3 owners. They all like the car, very few are impressed with the company. I was utterly unimpressed on my Model 3 test drive. A $50,000 car should ride better. The driving experience was nothing special. The few tactile controls felt like cheap toy plastic. I did like the UI, sort of. Put it on an overlay on the windshield in front of the driver and I think you have something close to the future. I liked the concept of the customizable, simple controls on the steering wheel — the execution is unpleasant. And yeah, you can take off quickly and go quickly. So what? Musk needs to sit in a mid-2000’s Volkswagen Passat for an hour or so.
- prepend 7y ago
  When I say fit and finish, I mean that the interior of the model 3 is more similar to a Hyundai or Toyota than a luxury car. I don’t think it’s about stuff breaking, it’s about cheap seats and not high quality plastic. Perfectly fine, but tough when you’re used to a Mercedes or Lexus. It reminds me of a civic interior with a giant iPad. This works for lots of people, but if they could get better interiors they would do much better against luxury. But they seem to be doing pretty well against bmw as is.
- CPLX 7y ago
  I’ve owned three BMW 3-Series sedans in a row. I was very very tempted by Tesla, until I actually drove one. It feels like a Honda Civic. Like a cheap downmarket economy car. Sure it has acceleration but so does a BMW more than you’ll ever need too. The experience is obviously disappointing if you’re used to German luxury cars. The point being, that if the German luxury brands get the hang of the electric thing Tesla’s going to be in severe danger.

dmode 7y ago

Tesla has killed one of BMWs biggest market - California. The number of Model 3s on the road far surpasses newer 3 series and this can only be the canary in coal mine. All Tesla needs to do is build out a similar Supercharger infrastructure in other big cities like we have in Bay Area and Los Angeles and it is going to be very tough for BMW to compete.

Diederich 7y ago
I agree with the main point of your comment. > All Tesla needs to do is build out a similar Supercharger infrastructure in other big cities like we have in Bay Area and Los Angeles I haven't looked in a while, so I checked out the Supercharger map for New York, DC, Chicago and Dallas, and was pretty surprised at how many superchargers are available already, with even more on the way.
- HeadsUpHigh 7y ago
  They are expanding their network worldwide at an incredible pace.
  - jvagner 7y ago
    Tesla 3s are all over in Reno, and we have exactly one supercharger. Which is weird, because we now have a Tesla dealership (South Reno) and the Gigafactory is just down the road.
    - Diederich 7y ago
      Ah, that's pretty sparse. I did note that another near the center of town is scheduled to be open this year. There should be more though.

vl 7y ago

I’m going to buy Model 3 Performance, but I’m still going to keep my M3, because, guess what, unlike gas stations, there are no supercharges next to the racetracks. So going for a track day in Model 3 is a really tricky proposition.