5 ms·

Researchers listen to people who hear voices

72 points by chatmasta 7y ago

shims 7y ago
Similarly, there's evidence that in cultures where hearing voices is considered something spiritual or a gift instead of a serious illness, not only are the voices more positive, but those who hear them are able to integrate and function in society better.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- amelius 7y ago
  Could the existence of such cultures, throughout evolution, be the reason that some hear voices, or have developed other mental illnesses?
  - HiroshiSan 7y ago
    That's an interesting theory, in a lot of native cultures, voices (whether it be auditory or in dreams) seem to play a significant role. I've had about 3 experiences happen to me that I don't know how to explain, 2 were what you'd call auditory hallucinations and one was a thought that popped into my head that ended up coming into fruition immediately after.
    - benj111 7y ago
      "one was a thought that popped into my head that ended up coming into fruition immediately after" Isn't that survivorship bias? I presume you've had other thoughts about possible scenarios, and they were presumably wrong? To put it another way. I've experienced deja vu, and rationally I know the thing hasn't happened before, so I don't mention it. But you are mentioning it, suggesting theres more to it?
    - trevelyan 7y ago
      details?
  - cr0sh 7y ago
    There's the theory of the so-called "bicameral mind": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicameralism_(psychology) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicameralism_(psychology)
- fmihaila 7y ago
  For those interested to explore this subject in more depth, I recommend 'Rethinking Madness' by Paris Williams [1]. The author makes the same point and discusses the evidence for it along with possible explanations. I found the book fascinating. [1] https://www.amazon.com/Rethinking-Madness-Understanding-Treatment-Psychosis/dp/0984986707 https://www.amazon.com/Rethinking-Madness-Understanding-Trea...
- ranie93 7y ago
  some additional resources: "The striking difference was that while many of the African and Indian subjects registered predominantly positive experiences with their voices, not one American did. Rather, the U.S. subjects were more likely to report experiences as violent and hateful – and evidence of a sick condition."[0] [0] https://news.stanford.edu/2014/07/16/voices-culture-luhrmann-071614/ https://news.stanford.edu/2014/07/16/voices-culture-luhrmann... https://institute.progress.im/en/content/schizophrenia-across-cultures https://institute.progress.im/en/content/schizophrenia-acros...
- fipar 7y ago
  In the bicameral mind theory (linked here in another comment[0]) Julian Jaynes proposes the Collective Cognitive Imperative[1], stating that this influences the tone and message of the hallucinations. [0]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20366183 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20366183 [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_cognitive_imperative https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_cognitive_imperativ...
eyphka 7y ago
This article from Yale’s website makes up numbers with zero citation. The article asserts that 8 percent of people suffer from auditory hallucinations on a regular basis. The closest article I could find that has some number similar to this is from https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4744794/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4744794/ which is an article about Norway and its population. The article then asserts that 1 percent of the population suffer from Schizophrenia without citation. I found that the NIH asserts with citation that the actual number for Americans is roughly .25 to .64 of one percent. https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/statistics/schizophrenia.shtml https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/statistics/schizophrenia.sht...
- tabtab 7y ago
  Re: This article from Yale’s website makes up numbers with zero citation. I hear the citations in my head, don't you?
  - alanfranz 7y ago
    Please. This is not reddit. Add a joke to a message if you like. But don't just drop a joke and nothing else.
    - showdeadplease 7y ago
      Indeed. HN takes humor very seriously.
- sekh60 7y ago
  Huh, I never saw that NIH number and I've come across a fair number of stories and articles for laypeople. I'm not doubting it, just kinda surprised since tons of people take the 1% number and parrot it. I always felt 1% was rather high.
dang 7y ago
Loosely related threads: 2019 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19480576 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19480576 2018 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16167545 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16167545 2017 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14653184 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14653184 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14653184 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14653184 2015 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10569110 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10569110 Pretty sure there has been discussion on HN of the "hearing voices" movement (e.g. https://www.hearing-voices.org/ https://www.hearing-voices.org/) but I couldn't find it.
IHLayman 7y ago
I wonder if the “clairaudients” are also subvocalizing like they found people with schizophrenia do: https://slate.com/technology/2016/03/schizophrenia-and-subvocal-speech-why-people-with-schizophrenia-hear-the-voices-of-god-spies-and-supernatural-entities.html https://slate.com/technology/2016/03/schizophrenia-and-subvo...
- WomanCanCode 7y ago
  Very impressive write-up. I didn't realize that the brain could get this wrong.
_a_throwaway 7y ago
It's not on the same scale as hearing voices, but when I was young (5-10 years old) I remember occasionally being otherwise calm but overcome by what I can only describe as a bit of a bad auditory trip. I would be speaking casually with my older sister in the car, for example, and the voices on the radio would become distinctly sinister for a while (30sec) although the content itself wouldn't change. I remember being able to recognize the feeling when it was coming on and actually slightly enjoying the moment as I knew it would pass soon enough. I'd talk to her about it at the time and let her know when it was happening - just to share the moment rather than anything else. It never scared me, but I wonder if anyone is aware of if it's something that has a name and is known to happen from time to time in otherwise stress-free and healthy children? It stopped completely well before I entered my teens. The best way to describe it would probably be the auditory effects of strong marijuana for someone who doesn't smoke much, but without any of the clouded thinking or stoned-ness
- sjf 7y ago
  Temporal lobe epilepsy?
  - _a_throwaway 7y ago
    It seems like that would be a good fit, according to the accounts of symptoms which I've read. Nice one, thanks. Since it's been gone for decades there's no real chance or motivation to get it definitively diagnosed in person, but it's still nice to put a potential name to it.
Ill_ban_myself 7y ago
I’m thoroughly disillusioned with the modern medical phenomenon of the spectrum of illness. Coping with mental illness takes at least 3 dimensions to chart. This research suggests there is money and interest in exploring 2 1/2D. Great. I guess? PTSD, phantom limb syndrome, and alcoholism also exist. No one would think it’s cute to conflate them or suggest they’re “related”

72 points by chatmasta 7y ago

Similarly, there's evidence that in cultures where hearing voices is considered something spiritual or a gift instead of a serious illness, not only are the voices more positive, but those who hear them are able to integrate and function in society better.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
amelius 7y ago
Could the existence of such cultures, throughout evolution, be the reason that some hear voices, or have developed other mental illnesses?
- HiroshiSan 7y ago
  That's an interesting theory, in a lot of native cultures, voices (whether it be auditory or in dreams) seem to play a significant role. I've had about 3 experiences happen to me that I don't know how to explain, 2 were what you'd call auditory hallucinations and one was a thought that popped into my head that ended up coming into fruition immediately after.
  - benj111 7y ago
    "one was a thought that popped into my head that ended up coming into fruition immediately after" Isn't that survivorship bias? I presume you've had other thoughts about possible scenarios, and they were presumably wrong? To put it another way. I've experienced deja vu, and rationally I know the thing hasn't happened before, so I don't mention it. But you are mentioning it, suggesting theres more to it?
  - trevelyan 7y ago
    details?
- cr0sh 7y ago
  There's the theory of the so-called "bicameral mind": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicameralism_(psychology) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicameralism_(psychology)
fmihaila 7y ago
For those interested to explore this subject in more depth, I recommend 'Rethinking Madness' by Paris Williams [1]. The author makes the same point and discusses the evidence for it along with possible explanations. I found the book fascinating. [1] https://www.amazon.com/Rethinking-Madness-Understanding-Treatment-Psychosis/dp/0984986707 https://www.amazon.com/Rethinking-Madness-Understanding-Trea...
ranie93 7y ago
some additional resources: "The striking difference was that while many of the African and Indian subjects registered predominantly positive experiences with their voices, not one American did. Rather, the U.S. subjects were more likely to report experiences as violent and hateful – and evidence of a sick condition."[0] [0] https://news.stanford.edu/2014/07/16/voices-culture-luhrmann-071614/ https://news.stanford.edu/2014/07/16/voices-culture-luhrmann... https://institute.progress.im/en/content/schizophrenia-across-cultures https://institute.progress.im/en/content/schizophrenia-acros...
fipar 7y ago
In the bicameral mind theory (linked here in another comment[0]) Julian Jaynes proposes the Collective Cognitive Imperative[1], stating that this influences the tone and message of the hallucinations. [0]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20366183 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20366183 [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_cognitive_imperative https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_cognitive_imperativ...

eyphka 7y ago

This article from Yale’s website makes up numbers with zero citation. The article asserts that 8 percent of people suffer from auditory hallucinations on a regular basis. The closest article I could find that has some number similar to this is from https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4744794/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4744794/ which is an article about Norway and its population. The article then asserts that 1 percent of the population suffer from Schizophrenia without citation. I found that the NIH asserts with citation that the actual number for Americans is roughly .25 to .64 of one percent. https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/statistics/schizophrenia.shtml https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/statistics/schizophrenia.sht...

tabtab 7y ago
Re: This article from Yale’s website makes up numbers with zero citation. I hear the citations in my head, don't you?
- alanfranz 7y ago
  Please. This is not reddit. Add a joke to a message if you like. But don't just drop a joke and nothing else.
  - showdeadplease 7y ago
    Indeed. HN takes humor very seriously.
sekh60 7y ago
Huh, I never saw that NIH number and I've come across a fair number of stories and articles for laypeople. I'm not doubting it, just kinda surprised since tons of people take the 1% number and parrot it. I always felt 1% was rather high.

dang 7y ago

Loosely related threads: 2019 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19480576 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19480576 2018 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16167545 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16167545 2017 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14653184 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14653184 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14653184 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14653184 2015 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10569110 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10569110 Pretty sure there has been discussion on HN of the "hearing voices" movement (e.g. https://www.hearing-voices.org/ https://www.hearing-voices.org/) but I couldn't find it.

IHLayman 7y ago

I wonder if the “clairaudients” are also subvocalizing like they found people with schizophrenia do: https://slate.com/technology/2016/03/schizophrenia-and-subvocal-speech-why-people-with-schizophrenia-hear-the-voices-of-god-spies-and-supernatural-entities.html https://slate.com/technology/2016/03/schizophrenia-and-subvo...

WomanCanCode 7y ago
Very impressive write-up. I didn't realize that the brain could get this wrong.

_a_throwaway 7y ago

It's not on the same scale as hearing voices, but when I was young (5-10 years old) I remember occasionally being otherwise calm but overcome by what I can only describe as a bit of a bad auditory trip. I would be speaking casually with my older sister in the car, for example, and the voices on the radio would become distinctly sinister for a while (30sec) although the content itself wouldn't change. I remember being able to recognize the feeling when it was coming on and actually slightly enjoying the moment as I knew it would pass soon enough. I'd talk to her about it at the time and let her know when it was happening - just to share the moment rather than anything else. It never scared me, but I wonder if anyone is aware of if it's something that has a name and is known to happen from time to time in otherwise stress-free and healthy children? It stopped completely well before I entered my teens. The best way to describe it would probably be the auditory effects of strong marijuana for someone who doesn't smoke much, but without any of the clouded thinking or stoned-ness

sjf 7y ago
Temporal lobe epilepsy?
- _a_throwaway 7y ago
  It seems like that would be a good fit, according to the accounts of symptoms which I've read. Nice one, thanks. Since it's been gone for decades there's no real chance or motivation to get it definitively diagnosed in person, but it's still nice to put a potential name to it.

Ill_ban_myself 7y ago

I’m thoroughly disillusioned with the modern medical phenomenon of the spectrum of illness. Coping with mental illness takes at least 3 dimensions to chart. This research suggests there is money and interest in exploring 2 1/2D. Great. I guess? PTSD, phantom limb syndrome, and alcoholism also exist. No one would think it’s cute to conflate them or suggest they’re “related”